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European Super League


MC RISK77

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3 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

How the rest of the premier league react is going to be very important in terms of how football will rebuild without those clubs.

Do they spend the next 10 years desperately trying to get in to the new league or do they work with the rest of the football league to make long lasting change for the betterment of the game. The latter may involve ending the premier league and returning to a single football league structure as the TV money would surely go from the premier league and the clubs would be back to relying on fan support for income.

It’s hard to imagine the latter I’m afraid but you never know.

Might be finding out very soon.....

 

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10 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Will they ? The plastics maybe until Lacrosse becomes fashionable. I for one won't watch it. Wouldn't it be nice to watch an old style MOTD and the Big Match on the Sunday.

Sorry Tone but I think the prospect  Erling Haaland in a Real Madrid shirt playing Liverpool with Jadon Sancho will have lot more global appeal than a top of the table Premier league game of Everton (minus Rodriguez who jumped ship) and West Ham. 

And if an FA exec read your Big Match comment he'd be choking on his prawn sandwiches (or whatever posh football execs eat nowadays - falafel and avocado wrap perhaps)

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1 minute ago, CotswoldRed said:

I'm a Klopp fan but his interview response was an incoherent blithering mess. 

What can he say? He only got some details on it yesterday and still hasn't been told the full picture, by most of it he just tried to defend the players from receiving abuse.

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Just now, Lrrr said:

Fair play Leeds if they're the ones who did it, t-shirts put in Liverpool's changing room saying 'UEFA champions league - EARN IT' and football is for the fans on the other side.

Pathetic. Its nothing to do with Liverpool's players. Leeds should be embarrassed.

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Just now, Lrrr said:

What can he say? He only got some details on it yesterday and still hasn't been told the full picture, by most of it he just tried to defend the players from receiving abuse.

He could say "I've said I disagree with it in the past and my position is unchanged."

Instead he gave a disingenuous politicians response. 

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Just now, Super said:

Pathetic. Its nothing to do with Liverpool's players. Leeds should be embarrassed.

It gave Liverpool players a chance to show they support the idea of earning your spot and free and fair competition rather than a closed shop. Its what Carragher and Neville are talking about, if the players of the 6 clubs came out wearing those shirts saying they object the idea it would send a massive message.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Isn't this about the global viewership though? Ultimately, the world will want to watch the ESL and there's where the money will go.

 

 It depends.

See the same few clubs play each other endlessly?  I think the interest would soon drop away compared to genuinely competitive leagues.

Some players won't want to get frozen out of national sides and established cup competitions and will know they aren't going to be elite level all their playing and professional lives so won't want to cut themselves out of Uefa-regulated clubs.

Many Big Six fans won't want to pay to watch an endless cycle of similar matches. The clubs will lose their traditional fanbases. Play in quiet stadiums full of corporate c***suckers who'll spend half the match in the hospitality lounges.  It'll be worse than the games this season!

It all opens the idea of NFL style franchising. Watch out Manchester City. You might find an owner thinks Frankfurt might be a more profitable base, and you become the Hesse Sky Blues in the future.

The thing that the American owners pushing this model don't understand is the national leagues in European football have much stronger and longer roots than Gridiron did when the NFL model was set up.  In the 20s-60s in the US, college football was what got the fans talking. Essentially series of friendlies played by certain universities and colleges. The game as we know it, with its Super Bowls and draft picks is only a few decades old. Only 7 NFL clubs even existed before WW2. 

I think some of the ESL clubs recognise this. Essentially the proposal is a bargaining chip to try to squeeze more money out Uefa.

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19 minutes ago, mozo said:

Sorry Tone but I think the prospect  Erling Haaland in a Real Madrid shirt playing Liverpool with Jadon Sancho will have lot more global appeal than a top of the table Premier league game of Everton (minus Rodriguez who jumped ship) and West Ham. 

And if an FA exec read your Big Match comment he'd be choking on his prawn sandwiches (or whatever posh football execs eat nowadays - falafel and avocado wrap perhaps)

I think you are grossly over simplifying a complex situation in your posts. Undoubtedly the clubs have a lot of power and ultimately all you say may come to pass but UEFA are not exactly small fry and Ceferin is a lawyer.

As others have said, this is an existential crisis for both UEFA and the Premier League. Neither can give those six clubs what they want without a massive and unsustainable cost. And both have enough clout to cause enough damage to make the twelve clubs’ lives very uncomfortable.

Even if the best the Premier League and UEFA can achieve is mutually assured destruction, I would not rule them out trying to achieve that. The genie cannot go back into the bottle and it is going to be an absolute shitshow what ever happens but I think your certainly the ESL clubs will get exactly what they want at no cost to them is somewhat misplaced.

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1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 It depends.

See the same few clubs play each other endlessly?  I think the interest would soon drop away compared to genuinely competitive leagues.

Some players won't want to get frozen out of national sides and established cup competitions and will know they aren't going to be elite level all their playing and professional lives so won't want to cut themselves out of Uefa-regulated clubs.

Many Big Six fans won't want to pay to watch an endless cycle of similar matches. The clubs will lose their traditional fanbases. Play in quiet stadiums full of corporate c***suckers who'll spend half the match in the hospitality lounges.  It'll be worse than the games this season!

It all opens the idea of NFL style franchising. Watch out Manchester City. You might find an owner thinks Frankfurt might be a more profitable base, and you become the Hesse Sky Blues in the future.

The thing that the American owners pushing this model don't understand is the national leagues in European football have much stronger and longer roots than Gridiron did when the NFL model was set up.  In the 20s-60s in the US, college football was what got the fans talking. Essentially series of friendlies played by certain universities and colleges. The game as we know it, with its Super Bowls and draft picks is only a few decades old. Only 7 NFL clubs even existed before WW2. 

I think some of the ESL clubs recognise this. Essentially the proposal is a bargaining chip to try to squeeze more money out Uefa.

Football should call their bluff and forget the bargaining chips. 

Set it up if want to, and you will be forced from your national leagues with no option to return. 

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If the FA let the 6 clubs get away with this, I'd like to see all the remaining Premier League and EFL clubs resign from the FA and start up their own association.

There'd be no restrictions in having terracing in the two top divisions - so that's a big win instantly!

I'd revert back to the four divisions, with all kick off's being 3pm on a Saturday and 7:45pm on a Tuesday or Wednesday night.

I'd limit TV exposure so that live games aren't covered, although highlights would be allowed. This is to encourage fans to attend and actually watch football how it was intended. Somehow make it that football gate receipts are important to the running of the club.

Like others have said, have replays for cup fixtures, have semi finals in club stadiums as opposed to the national stadium.

Get back to the structure and rules of how we remember football being enjoyable.

 

 

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Just now, beaverface said:

If the FA let the 6 clubs get away with this, I'd like to see all the remaining Premier League and EFL clubs resign from the FA and start up their own association.

There'd be no restrictions in having terracing in the two top divisions - so that's a big win instantly!

I'd revert back to the four divisions, with all kick off's being 3pm on a Saturday and 7:45pm on a Tuesday or Wednesday night.

I'd limit TV exposure so that live games aren't covered, although highlights would be allowed. This is to encourage fans to attend and actually watch football how it was intended. Somehow make it that football gate receipts are important to the running of the club.

Like others have said, have replays for cup fixtures, have semi finals in club stadiums as opposed to the national stadium.

Get back to the structure and rules of how we remember football being enjoyable.

 

 

The other 14 could apply to join the EFL? 

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I'd love to see the football authorities and the Government take draconian actions against the 6 but I doubt current rules and constitutions allow it. Ideally:

* Expelled from the Premier league with immediate effect and all their records for 20/21 expunged

* No relegation from the Premier League this season and promote 4 clubs from the Championship for an 18 team Premier League next year. 

* Normal relegation and promotion further down the EFL leaving 20 clubs in the Championship and 24 clubs in L1 and L2. 

* Cancellation of this year's League Cup

* Expulsion of Chelsea from the FA Cup leaving Leicester v Southampton as this years FA Cup final

* Players allowed to transfer out of the 6 but a transfer embargo on incoming players. 

* Players denied international recognition. 

* Any return to the football pyramid would be via the Southern/Isthmian or Northern league routes. 

* Government to revoke UK transmission licenses for any media outlet broadcasting or reporting the super league. 

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20 minutes ago, mozo said:

They must be hoping they get expelled from domestic leagues then!

No, they will want the Premier League to reduce in size , and to scrap the League and probably the FA cup. Why bother with so many smaller clubs ?

Seriously pissed off with this Americanisation of football ???image.png.a571ea665125794f750d530ea3f37623.pngimage.png.2b512502e36a9929983536f8756ed23a.png

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9 minutes ago, beaverface said:

If the FA let the 6 clubs get away with this, I'd like to see all the remaining Premier League and EFL clubs resign from the FA and start up their own association.

There'd be no restrictions in having terracing in the two top divisions - so that's a big win instantly!

I'd revert back to the four divisions, with all kick off's being 3pm on a Saturday and 7:45pm on a Tuesday or Wednesday night.

I'd limit TV exposure so that live games aren't covered, although highlights would be allowed. This is to encourage fans to attend and actually watch football how it was intended. Somehow make it that football gate receipts are important to the running of the club.

Like others have said, have replays for cup fixtures, have semi finals in club stadiums as opposed to the national stadium.

Get back to the structure and rules of how we remember football being enjoyable.

 

 

Can not see any club foregoing the TV money ?, but I feel your pain

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Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but not had time to read everything.

Has it occured to anyone that players of these teams could have a way out of their contracts?

They signed up to play in competitions already in place.

Surely a super League would contravene the clauses in their contracts?

Any contract would have to be re nogotiated or paid up.

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Fair play to the Leeds lads wearing warm up T Shirts saying "Earn It" on the front and "Football is for the Fans" on the back. Hope we see a bit more of that when the "Big 4" plus the two bang average North London clubs (who will be scrapping it out for 9-10th place every season in this new league) roll into town.

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7 hours ago, mozo said:

There's a lot of talk about the ESL not having relegation. That's true, but since when did any of these clubs have worry about relegation? And is American sport not competitive? I don't like the US model as much as the pyramid system, but both are competitive and reward winning vs losing. 

It's not about relegation, you've taken that too literally. it's about qualification. Arsenal are NINTH in the Prem. Why do they deserve to be in an elite competition just because they have a large fanbase? They don;t even have an abundance of European pedigree. 1 European cup between Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Spurs. Villa have 1 and Forest have 2.

American's have a draft system and the better you do the later your pick each year.

6 hours ago, Crackers Corner said:

I think fair weather fans who dont support local teams will be more comfortable with this than diehard fans. There has to be an element of the 6 clubs leaving thier fans behind and relying on armchair supporters and us/china market etc. Thats exactly why they need to be removed from the league pyramid system so football can go back to its roots. I really cant see it working as German teams have said they are not interested which makes a mockery of the title superleague. At least 4 of the 6 couldnt hold a candle to Munich or Dortmund and arsenal/spurs bring there shows what a farce it is. Apparently being funded by a us bank, i bet a US team will be added at some point. Fa/uefa and fifa must stand firm with this.

Agreed. And they will still watch it. 

6 hours ago, old parkender said:

If this goes ahead and the 6 get thrown out what then for sky and bt sport? I can’t imagine they would shell out the big money they have been for a regular diet of Crystal Palace v Everton. The money will go from our domestic game and most probably the knock on effect will see some more smaller clubs going to the wall

Depends what the players do. If Crystal Palace and Everton attract some big names who still want to play for their country and in the Prem then who knows?

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I fail to see how a sterile league with no promotion or relegation is going to generate any interest after the initial launch.

It would  be like a series of exhibition matches.
 

The ethos of any sport is to improve the performance why bother when whatever you do or don’t do makes no difference.

If this idea takes off then many disenfranchised supporters are going to spend their leisure time elsewhere.

 

It's still a cup competition that they will all want to win. I accept after about half the games and the top teams have enough points the other games will be stale.

3 hours ago, Super said:

This is why United fans never wanted the Glazers.

They made a bit of a stink, then lapped it all up. Don't see many empty seats at OT (covid aside), a couple thousand maybe went to FCUM, at most. 

On the whole they've sat back and taken it.

57 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

get rid of the Prem and bring back Div1, 2, 3 & 4

Why do you think the Prem would get rid of themself?

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41 minutes ago, mozo said:

Sorry Tone but I think the prospect  Erling Haaland in a Real Madrid shirt playing Liverpool with Jadon Sancho will have lot more global appeal than a top of the table Premier league game of Everton (minus Rodriguez who jumped ship) and West Ham. 

And if an FA exec read your Big Match comment he'd be choking on his prawn sandwiches (or whatever posh football execs eat nowadays - falafel and avocado wrap perhaps)

If it's global appeal they want then **** off and build 12 stadiums in Abu Dhabi and don't come back...............................

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8 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think you are grossly over simplifying a complex situation in your posts. Undoubtedly the clubs have a lot of power and ultimately all you say may come to pass but UEFA are not exactly small fry and Ceferin is a lawyer.

As others have said, this is an existential crisis for both UEFA and the Premier League. Neither can give those six clubs what they want without a massive and unsustainable cost. And both have enough clout to cause enough damage to make the twelve clubs’ lives very uncomfortable.

Even if the best the Premier League and UEFA can achieve is mutually assured destruction, I would not rule them out trying to achieve that. The genie cannot go back into the bottle and it is going to be an absolute shitshow what ever happens but I think your certainly the ESL clubs will get exactly what they want at no cost to them is somewhat misplaced.

Grossly over-simplifying? Give me some examples and let's get into the weeds!

What I'm trying to do is give a counter narrative to the emotive comments such as "kick them out, that will solve it" Um. It probably won't...

There are a lot of simple solutions on here that I don't buy.

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