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3 minutes ago, bris red said:

I despise Leeds United but fair play to them for this ?

BCC04B7F-9260-4C20-9478-D227BBF976B1.jpeg

Shallow gesture though isn't it. It's not the fans that the Premier League worries about, it's the millions they'll each lose when Sky et al buy the TV rights to the breakaway league instead of the Prem. But yeh, stick a t-shirt on your back and cry for the man in the street when you need him.

 

6 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

The financial and logistical implication on English football would be huge. Steve Parish said so himself and said that the 14 clubs in the Premier League don't want to see them leave, they want to get round the table and find a solution. 

But as far as I'm concerned there's nothing that needs to be done. Either they're in or they're out. I'm not having it that UEFA, the Premier League, the FA give these big 6 clubs anything more for them to stay in these competitions. It can't be the case that every few seasons the biggest clubs can't threaten a Super League or similar so competitions and finances are skewed in their favour even more. 

Disgraceful. Bullying tactics without any thought about the supporters and the local communities who should be at the heart of the clubs, or the knock on impacts of other clubs in football. 

Don't give them a thing, in or out as far as I'm concerned.

Could the other 14 get together and re-write the constitution of the Prem so that it included auto-expulsion and other penalties if a club left to join a different league (obv not including relegation). IIRC from when the big six attempted their mid-covid coup 14 was the threshold to change stuff?

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Wonder how the would impact work permits (if at all).

Currently, if you are signing a player from a top side or someone with international experience the work permit seems to be no problem.

If these clubs find themselves in no position for their players to play on an international stage or in a domestic league, would they be eligible to work in the UK under the post Brexit points system?

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2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Have I got this all wrong?

Why does it cost so much money to run a football club?

The truth is it costs very little to run a football club.

The unspeakable truth is that for some reason we have created situation where players are being paid unrealistic amounts of money. 

That is how I see it too. The answer is not to take a bigger piece of the pie, only to blow it all on higher salaries and transfer fees.

These clubs already receive obscene amounts yet run up big debts. They need to learn how to control costs rather than up their income. Otherwise it solves nothing. 

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54 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 It depends.

See the same few clubs play each other endlessly?  I think the interest would soon drop away compared to genuinely competitive leagues.

Some players won't want to get frozen out of national sides and established cup competitions and will know they aren't going to be elite level all their playing and professional lives so won't want to cut themselves out of Uefa-regulated clubs.

Many Big Six fans won't want to pay to watch an endless cycle of similar matches. The clubs will lose their traditional fanbases. Play in quiet stadiums full of corporate c***suckers who'll spend half the match in the hospitality lounges.  It'll be worse than the games this season!

It all opens the idea of NFL style franchising. Watch out Manchester City. You might find an owner thinks Frankfurt might be a more profitable base, and you become the Hesse Sky Blues in the future.

The thing that the American owners pushing this model don't understand is the national leagues in European football have much stronger and longer roots than Gridiron did when the NFL model was set up.  In the 20s-60s in the US, college football was what got the fans talking. Essentially series of friendlies played by certain universities and colleges. The game as we know it, with its Super Bowls and draft picks is only a few decades old. Only 7 NFL clubs even existed before WW2. 

I think some of the ESL clubs recognise this. Essentially the proposal is a bargaining chip to try to squeeze more money out Uefa.

There's definitely a chance that this is a power play but the fact that clubs have formally announced it makes me think this is happening. 

Regards the same teams playing each other, they are proposing two groups of ten aren't they before playoffs? So it's not far off the Scottish Premiership but you have two equal leagues running concurrently. It certainly could work if the top players go for it.

I don't see fans abandoning their clubs in great numbers. When the Glazers swooped for Man U there was loads of "I'm out" noise but Old Trafford still sells out, despite selling out.

Regards the league being competitive it actually will be far more competitive that teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona are used to. No more Huesca drubbings. The lack of relegation jeopardy will take some getting used to, but will people just get used to that? We shall see. None of the younger fans of these clubs will have worried about the threat of relegation before.

The franchise scenario is definitely a concern. I've been trying to drum up some concern about City's own investor situation. I worry that we're all too laissez faire about what kind of people could grab power at our club and I worry that we're all going to be lulled by talk of 'taking City to the next level' and not see the perils. Man Utd fans should have seen this coming. Many did and said so. But the opposition to the Glazers was limited.

I'm completely opposed to this. I'm opposed to Saudi money buying already big clubs and making them bulletproof, and Russian tycoons buying the league, and US moguls trying to bring the American sports entertainment model, and snorting English yuppies looking for their football status symbol. I'm opposed to the current Champions league format, and even more so the new proposals. Give me the European cup back!

But we live in a hyper capitalist era where businesses must grow exponentially and there will be collateral damage. Don't ask me how we found ourselves here. It stinks. But I would be surprised if we can stop the train when it's in motion. 

I'd guess that lawyers from both sides have been working on this for months, so let's see how far UEFA and the FA are willing to go. The League Cup and CL semi finals are the first test of courage!

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1 hour ago, CotswoldRed said:

He could say "I've said I disagree with it in the past and my position is unchanged."

Instead he gave a disingenuous politicians response. 

That's exactly what he did say at the start of his interview before the game

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

The fury from Sky Sports and the PL is hilarious. 

Let them go.

They don't want to go which is the problem, they want the main meal of the super league and the pudding of the PL to go with it

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2 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

The fury from Sky Sports and the PL is hilarious. 

Let them go.

It’s not as simple as that. The current TV deals include the “top 6”. Do you really believe the contracts would be so lucrative if they weren’t on every Sunday? Would you pay 30 quid a month to watch Burnley vs Newcastle?

Sky would be well within their rights to take legal action - it’s not as simple as letting them go. It’s a absolute shambles. I’m all for punishing them but it’s very complex 

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Why do you find it hilarious?

Because 30 years ago they were a huge factor in why we are where we are now. Starting the PL and the tv deals over x years - the greed getting bigger and bigger. They now are frightened their product will be damaged/harmed etc and will essentially be worthless. Of course they are going to come out and say its a terrible greedy idea when the PL to start with was that.

1 minute ago, TonyTonyTony said:

It’s not as simple as that. The current TV deals include the “top 6”. Do you really believe the contracts would be so lucrative if they weren’t on every Sunday? Would you pay 30 quid a month to watch Burnley vs Newcastle?

Sky would be well within their rights to take legal action - it’s not as simple as letting them go. It’s a absolute shambles. I’m all for punishing them but it’s very complex 

Thats the whole point. They are kicking up a huge fuss because their product will be worthless as you've just alluded to.

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Just now, TonyTonyTony said:

It’s not as simple as that. The current TV deals include the “top 6”. Do you really believe the contracts would be so lucrative if they weren’t on every Sunday? Would you pay 30 quid a month to watch Burnley vs Newcastle?

Sky would be well within their rights to take legal action - it’s not as simple as letting them go. It’s a absolute shambles. I’m all for punishing them but it’s very complex 

But that's the point. These clubs aren't proposing they stop competing in the Premier League.

So if Sky did get the hump because the Premier League expelled them, Sky would take their complaint to the league, rather than the clubs.

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36 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

If Bristol City were one of those 6 elite teams how would everyone feel ? 

To paraphrase the Arsenal fan at the end of C4 News tonight, ‘we can’t afford to forget this;;this isn’t about Liverpool, this isn’t about Man City, this isn’t about Bristol City.......it’s about football’

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16 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

It’s not as simple as that. The current TV deals include the “top 6”. Do you really believe the contracts would be so lucrative if they weren’t on every Sunday? Would you pay 30 quid a month to watch Burnley vs Newcastle?

Sky would be well within their rights to take legal action - it’s not as simple as letting them go. It’s a absolute shambles. I’m all for punishing them but it’s very complex 

It’s not inconceivable that there’s something in the Sky contract that doesn’t guarantee specific clubs, and that allows the FA to punish clubs who break the competition rules.

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36 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Have I got this all wrong?

Why does it cost so much money to run a football club?

The truth is it costs very little to run a football club.

The unspeakable truth is that for some reason we have created situation where players are being paid unrealistic amounts of money. 

This is only massive cost in the game.

If 6 clubs left, there would still be huge amounts of money in the game and clubs would continue, but maybe the players wouldn’t earn £200k a week.

So what?

Not disagreeing with that mate, not saying it's right that players are paid that much etc but it's based off supply and demand, football is huge and you stick 12 big teams in a super league it will increase demand hence why these clubs want it. Agree that more should be done on making football sustainable and sensible.

What I'm saying is that the big 6 will continue to make these threats to get a bigger piece of the pie, especially if more concessions are made now to keep them in the league etc. I could see that happening.  I don't want that to happen.

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3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s not inconceivable that there’s something in the Sky contract that doesn’t guarantee specific clubs, and that allows the FA to punish clubs who break the competition rules.

I’m sure Sky have been sounded out already but the unraveling of all of this is very complex

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32 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Don’t think so mate - I’ve seen a fair few footballers contracts and what they do reference is the leagues in the bonus structure (I.e you get x win bonus if it takes you 15th in the league and y if it takes you 11th) together with the cups in a similar format. The base employment contract is just employment for the club, but no specific competition.

(If you want a parallel  think Lansbury. Was employed by Villa but not in their 25 man PL squad so couldn’t play. Couldn’t terminate contract though)

What the contract will reference is the registration with the relevant FA but that’s irrelevant as it doesn’t impede the club from also doing an SL registration 

I probably didn't put across my point very well mate.

If a club sign up to the SL and Uefa stop a player from plying his trade under Uefa competitions...which a contract will adhere to, then surely a player will have every right to terminate contract or renegotiate as it goes against what he signed up for. 

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It's all motivated by greed and nothing more. Let them go, don't let them go, it won't sort the problem.

Stop letting 'investors' own football clubs. They expect a return yet only a very small percentage of clubs are in a position to achieve that.

Phase in a reasonable and annually reviewed wage cap in line with inflation and living costs. Perhaps limit clubs to 3 uncapped signings.

Get rid of independent agents or at least cap the percentage/total they can make on any one deal.

I've no idea if any of that is truely viable but they need to stop the utter gravy train that people are on in football.

They must stop some of the disgusting amounts of money coming in and then going straight out of the clubs. What's the limit, where does it all end? If you take a few zeros off of the numbers in football it doesn't suddenly stop, it doesn't mean there will never be another Messi etc coming through. Look at the history of the game, very few millionaire footballers back in the day, yet the world produced some of the greatest to have ever played. So many now are on sums a week beyond what most of us could only dream of earning before they have even done anything meaningful in the game, some never will but still retire multi-millionaires.

It's a sad state of affairs and it's been brewing for a long time. I really hope this becomes an opportunity to review it all top from bottom and make significant changes. Sadly i don't think it will.

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7 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s not inconceivable that there’s something in the Sky contract that doesn’t guarantee specific clubs, and that allows the FA to punish clubs who break the competition rules.

Exactly. Surely the right to punish clubs for misdemeanors (financial or otherwise) supersedes Sky's contract terms. 

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Right, so, hypothetically, UEFA are on about banning all ESL players from their competitions, I'll assume the EPL will do the same.

What would happen when say, Man U want to sign the next Ronaldo and sell, for example, Rashford? He can't come back to the EPL so would United be stuck with him?

By the same token, as mentioned earlier, would all the academy players be in the same boat, not being able to transfer to another English club as their current club are going into the ESL?

Personally, I think this is far further down the path than we realise, website, teams arranged, fixture organisation sorted, clubs signed up. I think this is much closer than we realise, sadly. 

 

On another point, I appreciate this would weaken the English football 'product' but, if this is the big reset, could it come back stronger with a more sensible financial outlook? The same goes for the other leagues in Europe I guess.

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19 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

The same as I do now and I would never go near Ashton Gate again

What if you were at the zoo, say, and you got an urgent call to meet someone at Imperial Retail Park - would you go down Park Street then head for Temple Meads and up the Wells Road to Knowle, then take a right at the Broadwalk traffic lights and get to it that way? Be a proper bugger not being able to nip down Bridge Valley Road, up over the Cumberland, then veer left on to Winterstoke road. Fully respect your choice though, mate ...

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48 minutes ago, bris red said:

I despise Leeds United but fair play to them for this ?

BCC04B7F-9260-4C20-9478-D227BBF976B1.jpeg

Did Jack Harrison wear one?

He’s still permanently employed by Man City - only a loan to Leeds. 

What would his employers make of the fact he wore it? 
 

Anyway - it’s a total token gesture. If Kalvin Phillips was sold to Liverpool in the summer I’m sure he wouldn’t give two ***** - he’d be there in a flash and doubling his money. 

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Found it hard to listen to Steve Parish the way he squirmed his way past avoiding blame for not helping championship clubs, I remember at the time we were pointed at as one of the reasons why championships didn't need to be helped as we'd made a profit in our last accounts, only because we'd sold players on our way to doing that. We got **** all help from the PL and are only getting help because the EFL is getting a loan from an American bank and the PL are 'helping' by acting as guarantor essentially on that loan. Sorry Steve (Parish) but you may go into PL meetings voting as if you're one of us but your actions as a PL owner when it mattered showed you don't give a flying **** about us!

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33 minutes ago, mozo said:

There's definitely a chance that this is a power play but the fact that clubs have formally announced it makes me think this is happening. 

Regards the same teams playing each other, they are proposing two groups of ten aren't they before playoffs? So it's not far off the Scottish Premiership but you have two equal leagues running concurrently. It certainly could work if the top players go for it.

I don't see fans abandoning their clubs in great numbers. When the Glazers swooped for Man U there was loads of "I'm out" noise but Old Trafford still sells out, despite selling out.

Regards the league being competitive it actually will be far more competitive that teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona are used to. No more Huesca drubbings. The lack of relegation jeopardy will take some getting used to, but will people just get used to that? We shall see. None of the younger fans of these clubs will have worried about the threat of relegation before.

The franchise scenario is definitely a concern. I've been trying to drum up some concern about City's own investor situation. I worry that we're all too laissez faire about what kind of people could grab power at our club and I worry that we're all going to be lulled by talk of 'taking City to the next level' and not see the perils. Man Utd fans should have seen this coming. Many did and said so. But the opposition to the Glazers was limited.

I'm completely opposed to this. I'm opposed to Saudi money buying already big clubs and making them bulletproof, and Russian tycoons buying the league, and US moguls trying to bring the American sports entertainment model, and snorting English yuppies looking for their football status symbol. I'm opposed to the current Champions league format, and even more so the new proposals. Give me the European cup back!

But we live in a hyper capitalist era where businesses must grow exponentially and there will be collateral damage. Don't ask me how we found ourselves here. It stinks. But I would be surprised if we can stop the train when it's in motion. 

I'd guess that lawyers from both sides have been working on this for months, so let's see how far UEFA and the FA are willing to go. The League Cup and CL semi finals are the first test of courage!

Good post Mozo.

I have no issue with the clubs going for an ESL, but they want to stay in PL too. How long before the 6’s PL team becomes akin to a B Team, or at least a mix, as travel dictates rest and rotation.  If they believe in the ESL so much, go the whole hog.  But they don’t, they want cake and eat it.  What happens if they finish in a relegation spot?

As for City, until we start to hear any noise of the potential new investment, it’s really difficult to lay down my rules, other than “right fit for City”.  I don’t know what that is, not really my area of expertise, so will have to wait and see who comes in and what the deal is.  It’s vague rather than blasé / lassez faire.

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3 minutes ago, Redpool said:

This is all Sky’s and the PL’a fault. They created this baby 30 years ago and now this baby is fully grown and is ready to up and leave the nest. 30 years of evolution in the making. 

It's capitalism, they're just working within the system we have.

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6 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

What if you were at the zoo, say, and you got an urgent call to meet someone at Imperial Retail Park - would you go down Park Street then head for Temple Meads and up the Wells Road to Knowle, then take a right at the Broadwalk traffic lights and get to it that way? Be a proper bugger not being able to nip down Bridge Valley Road, up over the Cumberland, then veer left on to Winterstoke road. Fully respect your choice though, mate ...

Fine I'll never set foot in the zoo either just to be on the safe side,  always thought there was something shifty looking about those giraffes anyway

4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Found it hard to listen to Steve Parish the way he squirmed his way past avoiding blame for not helping championship clubs, I remember at the time we were pointed at as one of the reasons why championships didn't need to be helped as we'd made a profit in our last accounts, only because we'd sold players on our way to doing that. We got **** all help from the PL and are only getting help because the EFL is getting a loan from an American bank and the PL are 'helping' by acting as guarantor essentially on that loan. Sorry Steve (Parish) but you may go into PL meetings voting as if you're one of us but your actions as a PL owner when it mattered showed you don't give a flying **** about us!

Or because he basically stole that club

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