italian dave Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Simon Jordan is a great listen today on TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, Lrrr said: I think I’d say the PL impose a season ban from Europe on all clubs, not that this effects Arsenal.... and a 12 month transfer embargo. I bet there's no sanction whatsoever. As you were, lads . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: Yes but they have to be punished - severely to make them never do it again. If UEFA are scared of losing revenue in CL because the big 12 are not in it for a season or 2, so be it. Letting them get away with it will only increase their sense of entitlement. Go in like a tonne of bricks - points deduction next season, so they will struggle to qualify for CL, transfer embargo and massive fine. ******* Transfer bans could work. ... On another note, Bayern and Dortmund were never invited to join the ESL. Perez already knew they were too moderate (and potentially hamstrung?), so he kept them out of it. Interestingly, Bayern support a salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Just now, Super said: Simon Jordan is a great listen today on TS. He is most days whenever Jim White isn't squeeling over him with sensationalist nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 hours ago, CotswoldRed said: I think they'd worked out every last detail. But their sociopathic and narcissistic arrogance assumed the plebs of the world would roll over and accept it, whether they liked it or not. To a degree I can understand that. The modern world is famous for its apathy. Homelessness and social injustice won't get much of a whimper, but rip the heart from football and people get upset. Rich and poor. I think one significant factor in all this, that hasn't been really talked about is that a lot has been made of the original justification was that it might annoy domestic fans but a far bigger audience of fans in Africa, Asia and around the world would be excited by the prospect and that meant money was to be made from that. Whilst I've not studied the global reaction in detail, everything I've seen from fans and media around the world was that they thought it was as terrible an idea as domestic fans did. There is obviously a risk of clubs trying a breakaway project again, and there is no doubt they will if they think they can get away with it, but I suspect the major concern for the clubs involved is not the fact that the announcement generated a backlash (which they would have anticipated) so much as that it generated virtually no excitement anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, italian dave said: So he kept saying. I’m not quite so sure how though. Not if the clubs were determined enough, and not without creating all sorts of unforeseen consequences. It would have been knee jerk legislation at its worst. We’ll never know I guess. Apparently there are different laws in France and Germany so it could’ve been similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: Apparently there are different laws in France and Germany so it could’ve been similar? I honestly don’t know enough about it, and it’s all academic now anyway. But, for example, yes you could bring in similar laws to those in France and Germany - but they’d apply to every club presumably. And that would have far reaching consequences way beyond just Man C etc. It just felt like a typical Johnson statement yesterday, not thought out, saying what he thinks people want to hear, making promises he can’t keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, italian dave said: I honestly don’t know enough about it, and it’s all academic now anyway. But, for example, yes you could bring in similar laws to those in France and Germany - but they’d apply to every club presumably. And that would have far reaching consequences way beyond just Man C etc. It just felt like a typical Johnson statement yesterday, not thought out, saying what he thinks people want to hear, making promises he can’t keep. Is your Johnson related to our two? He seems to be in terms of how they too spoke in interviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I think one significant factor in all this, that hasn't been really talked about is that a lot has been made of the original justification was that it might annoy domestic fans but a far bigger audience of fans in Africa, Asia and around the world would be excited by the prospect and that meant money was to be made from that. Whilst I've not studied the global reaction in detail, everything I've seen from fans and media around the world was that they thought it was as terrible an idea as domestic fans did. There is obviously a risk of clubs trying a breakaway project again, and there is no doubt they will if they think they can get away with it, but I suspect the major concern for the clubs involved is not the fact that the announcement generated a backlash (which they would have anticipated) so much as that it generated virtually no excitement anywhere. Well, there was an Inter “fan”, in Japan, on the news one night, and he was looking forward to it. And a gashead somewhere who thought the expulsion of six clubs from the prem would mean no relegation elsewhere this season. But that aside......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Ivorguy said: Is your Johnson related to our two? He seems to be in terms of how they too spoke in interviews Don’t you dare call him “my” Johnson!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Olé said: I'm sure with all the face saving now required that all manner of stuff is going to leak about how this came about. I'm really beginning to wonder (particularly as they're left clinging to this shambles) whether Perez and the two cripplingly indebted Spanish clubs tricked the rest of them (certainly the English clubs) into this - note the ESL was being setup by a private equity house used by Perez (Key Capital Partners in Madrid) and they'd have fed everyone else the term sheet. That means Perez and Key Capital would quite likely have been securing the lending from JP Morgan and weaving the story on the media partners they had lined up to everyone else. This would have created a FOMO for all the English clubs when in fact Perez was just trying to hook these other rich clubs to come and make possible a cash cow to keep his ship afloat. The only bizarre thing is how easily English clubs were suckered in. There was a great tweet last night from Simon Kuper who is a fantastic football author and financial journalist, along the lines that we wildly overestimate how clever executives in football clubs are (I've always felt the same about MA when people say he sounds like a businessman - he doesn't). By the way, this is not me making an easy excuse for the English clubs, I have nothing to defend them for and hope they're sanctioned for this brazen attempt to shaft the rest of us - however England has nothing like the corruption around football clubs in Spain, Italy, Portugal etc (often state enabled) and so the six were likely naive to how far Perez would stoop. Clubs like Real Madrid and Barca (and by no means only them) bend every rule they can, seek state favour on matters such as land ownership, tax, and do so in order to throw ridiculous sums of money at their clubs. Being president of these clubs affords huge influence which is why people like Perez see maintaining the flow of cash as critical to their own prestige. My bet is he saw this as just another exercise in manipulating all those around him to prop up his own horrific economics. I am sure Barcelona and Juventus would have been onside too, they have a similarly dubious history of seeking advantages. At worst, six English clubs in a lucrative domestic league were conned into shifting their financial power into Madrid's orbit. No doubt by Sunday a lot of them, including several in England (Man Utd my bet led the charge given how leveraged in debt they are too) were 100% onboard with the idea, but I can well believe Man City or Chelsea got in more reluctantly as they're not saddled with debt. Let's see what they all now say about this, either way, NONE of them should be easily forgiven. Very good points @Olé. One of the Real Madrid reasons for this "creation" was that young fans are not coming to football because it is not good enough - so the answer is to create an elite league to which they will flock to the stadia in Europe, probably with games played in Asia and USA to drag in mega dollars and of course by TV. Perhaps the fact that the Spanish league, like many others in Europe (Portugal, France, Holland, Scotland etc) is a three or four team league with the rest not standing an earthly of winning titles/cups. Germany and Italy have a reasonable spread of quality capable of titles. Whereas in England, even though the quality throughout the top two leagues may not match the top of the aforementioned leagues, it provides two leagues of over forty clubs with a significant proportion of matches in which results are unpredictable. We also have attendances that apart from top three or four are significantly higher than Spain, etc. Where in Europe would you get a club with a home average gate of 20,000 plus that has only spent four years out of the last 110 years in the top league, and won only two lower league titles in the last 90 years? Or a Sunderland in a regional league as all the third divisions are in Europe with an average of 30,000? The other major point you made was about Real Madrid and finance. It should never be forgotten that they and Benfica were financially sponsored as political pawns by Right Wing Extremist Dictators for about forty to fifty years. As you know only too well Ole, in Portugal the Three F's of Fatima, Fado and Football were used to keep the people subservient and quiet! Finally, it has been very reassuring to hear so many players annd management stating that football is a sport where it is imperative to achieve by results, not by privileged permanency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 The ESL is turning in to the best joke. Got to keep chuckling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheddarReds Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: One of the Real Madrid reasons for this "creation" was that young fans are not coming to football because it is not good enough This is absolute nonsense and if Perez meant this it's a sign that one of the men pushing for this was completely clueless - no wonder it failed. The 16-24 year old age group have shown how they can be just as much if not more obsessive than other age groups in their hobbies and football is no different. Fanalysts and graphic designers are obvious examples in the football world. If he's confused why 16-24s might not tune in to the champions league maybe he should consider actions he's pushed for previously. I used to watch all the quarter final matches on ITV before they got moved behind paywall(s). A ticket to watch Real Madrid in the Champions League for someone in that age bracket is 80 euros. Why wouldn't they watch a stream or wait for the extended highlights on You Tube that come out an hour after the final whistle? Admission costs for adults are rising and are a struggle for more people, when more families seem to struggle to put food on the table. Football clubs are passed down through generations, if adults and families can't afford to go where is the interest from the kids going to come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Fundamentally, this is a division about ethos: the ESL clubs' owners are looking at a stable format where there is more certainty over the future - and thereby a more attractive investment; the other side is the fans and players' view of the game being a true meritocracy - the best become so through competition and in full view. Success is earned, not a dividend. For all its many flaws and idiosyncracies, the game of football is more than just a passtime, it holds a far more important place in many hearts and is an arena where dreams are held dear. How a club of any level impacts on a town, socially or economically, is yet to be fully appreciated. No other sport can match this in our nation, and I believe in many others. It is this very aspect that the billionaire owner/investors find anathema: you can't put a price tag on passion. You can't steal a football fan's heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 A brief glance at some of the ‘top six’ forums and there doesn’t seem to be any chat on whether they should or could get punished, lots of “let’s draw a line under it and move on” type posts. No, lets not actually. Let’s hold you to account for the intent to prevent anything like this happening again. And also let’s remind you all next season from the terraces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 hours ago, BigTone said: Well whilst it might not go ahead just now the idea has been put out there and no doubt will return maybe in a slightly more palatable format. Oh the general idea or theme of a general breakaway Super League has been in situ since the late 1990s. Probably longer! Is it a decisive victory or a tactical retreat by the 12? Barney Ronay thinks it maybe the latter. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/20/chelsea-super-league-roman-abramovich-manchester-city- I think FIFA's weakness or mixed messaging didn't help. They seem to be allowing an African Super League, maybe even actively encouraging and seen a US-Mexican one mooted. Plus a mooted European Premier League that came out last year...FIFA were purportedly involved in that The mess may not have risen had they rolled out the 'You're banned' shtick from Day One to any proposed rebel clubs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 There could be some legal repercussions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Sky Sports News getting the opinion of Sam Allardyce on greed in the game. Fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Superjack said: Sky Sports News getting the opinion of Sam Allardyce on greed in the game. Fabulous. Everyone has their nose in the trough, including Allardyce. How many pay-offs has he had? He will be a multi-millionaire many times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: Everyone has their nose in the trough, including Allardyce. How many pay-offs has he had? He will be a multi-millionaire many times over. That is a completely separate issue. He is certainly not Robinson Crusoe in that regard but he was paid what was contractually agreed with his employers. What we have with ESL is a group of clubs who have attempted to form a closed shop in order to ensure they receive maximum income with zero competition. The issues are VERY different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, BigTone said: That is a completely separate issue. He is certainly not Robinson Crusoe in that regard but he was paid what was contractually agreed with his employers. What we have with ESL is a group of clubs who have attempted to form a closed shop in order to ensure they receive maximum income with zero competition. The issues are VERY different. Umm.... ...remind me. Why exactly did he lose the England job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Superjack said: Umm.... ...remind me. Why exactly did he lose the England job? we both know why but again that is a completely different issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, BigTone said: we both know why but again that is a completely different issue I'm not saying it's the same issue. I'm saying that if ever there was a time for Sam Allardyce to shut the **** up, this is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Superjack said: I'm not saying it's the same issue. I'm saying that if ever there was a time for Sam Allardyce to shut the **** up, this is it. As with anybody else on the football gravy train who have secured their financial futures. That includes ex players. Again we are talking about 2 very different scenarios here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, BigTone said: As with anybody else on the football gravy train Well, that is indeed an argument, but I think accepting bribes and bungs is a somewhat different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Superjack said: Well, that is indeed an argument, but I think accepting bribes and bungs is a somewhat different. As is getting paid money via different channels to minimise tax liability. How many Tesco workers get paid things like image rights ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, BigTone said: As is getting paid money via different channels to minimise tax liability. How many Tesco workers get paid things like image rights ? I don't disagree, but that is another debate. Sam Allardyce should not have the tumerity to be criticising anybody for feathering their own nest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Superjack said: I don't disagree, but that is another debate. Sam Allardyce should not have the tumerity to be criticising anybody for feathering their own nest. Let's remember he was rather set up by one of our wonderful pure as driven snow newspapers. Let's agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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