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European Super League


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1 minute ago, Olé said:

6AAE9C56-ACD2-418A-830F-873975C90316.thumb.jpeg.6e502dd1ec6a3f147ee04ad2aa76e573.jpeg

I seen a clip from sky I think and quoted a board member of one of the six and it was along the lines of our jobs are to maximise revenue and the club’s stature and everything else is secondary. 
 

I think this is done and they are going to go regardless of any court cases and what the various entities do. They will get enough money to go at it for a few years and gamble the domestic leagues and uefa start to die without them. Then they will be asked to come back and will take what they want again. Imo it is too late to save it but hope I am wrong

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So if this was to materialise, would Sky reduce money paid to Prem and go searching for contract to television rights for Super League?

Would the likes of Gary Neville pundit on such games?

Interesting that Super League are taking this to court to get it going as they have to, due to £4 billion grant given by JP Morgan. On behalf of shareholders so grant can be decided amongst them. 

 

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

So if this was to materialise, would Sky reduce money paid to Prem and go searching for contract to television rights for Super League?

Would the likes of Gary Neville pundit on such games?

Interesting that Super League are taking this to court to get it going as they have to, due to £4 billion grant given by JP Morgan. On behalf of shareholders so grant can be decided amongst them. 

 

No doubt in my mind they won’t pay the same if they were kicked out of the league. And someone will get the rights to it. The tv companies are a big reason why this will work. 

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3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

No doubt in my mind they won’t pay the same if they were kicked out of the league. And someone will get the rights to it. The tv companies are a big reason why this will work. 

It will only work for a brief period, like the Kerry Packer cricket series, there will be insufficient variety to maintain the interest of the public. 

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Quote from the document unearthed by the Guardian:

'Citing Covid, it warns that the accumulated losses of top-level clubs exceed €5bn (£4.3bn). “The value of live media rights is stagnating or declining as some of our competitions fail to meet the needs of fans and new generations seek entertainment in ways which didn’t exist 10 years ago,”'

Diddums...like they're the only ones suffering

Edited by SecretSam
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just to bring it back to the start to offer some clarity, tell me again why we need a super league?

I can only think if one thing, creating profit for owners.

Football clubs to my mind are essentially NPO’s.

The only reason many are in a pickle is player wages. 

If most clubs looked at their cash flow and removed player cost from the expense line I don’t think it would look horrendous. You then have to work in player wages from there.

I’m staggered as to how this constantly gets overlooked.

Bristol City cannot afford their current wage bill. Players are complicit in this. It’s too easy to offer the excuse ‘it’s not their fault, clubs shouldn’t pay it’.

All of them, yes all of them, are fully aware that the contract they asked for is unsustainable and cripples the football club that pay it. 

Are they wholly responsible? No.

Are they consciously complicit? Yes.

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11 hours ago, mozo said:

There's definitely a chance that this is a power play but the fact that clubs have formally announced it makes me think this is happening. 

Regards the same teams playing each other, they are proposing two groups of ten aren't they before playoffs? So it's not far off the Scottish Premiership but you have two equal leagues running concurrently. It certainly could work if the top players go for it.

I don't see fans abandoning their clubs in great numbers. When the Glazers swooped for Man U there was loads of "I'm out" noise but Old Trafford still sells out, despite selling out.

Regards the league being competitive it actually will be far more competitive that teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona are used to. No more Huesca drubbings. The lack of relegation jeopardy will take some getting used to, but will people just get used to that? We shall see. None of the younger fans of these clubs will have worried about the threat of relegation before.

The franchise scenario is definitely a concern. I've been trying to drum up some concern about City's own investor situation. I worry that we're all too laissez faire about what kind of people could grab power at our club and I worry that we're all going to be lulled by talk of 'taking City to the next level' and not see the perils. Man Utd fans should have seen this coming. Many did and said so. But the opposition to the Glazers was limited.

I'm completely opposed to this. I'm opposed to Saudi money buying already big clubs and making them bulletproof, and Russian tycoons buying the league, and US moguls trying to bring the American sports entertainment model, and snorting English yuppies looking for their football status symbol. I'm opposed to the current Champions league format, and even more so the new proposals. Give me the European cup back!

But we live in a hyper capitalist era where businesses must grow exponentially and there will be collateral damage. Don't ask me how we found ourselves here. It stinks. But I would be surprised if we can stop the train when it's in motion. 

I'd guess that lawyers from both sides have been working on this for months, so let's see how far UEFA and the FA are willing to go. The League Cup and CL semi finals are the first test of courage!

You're missing the point about relegation. It's not a literal comparison to relegation from the Premier League, it's the equivilent to not qualifying for the Champions League, a very real threat they all face every season as at least 2 of the 6 CANT make it every year and this year 4 of them may miss out. These teams will play in this competition every year regardless of how badly they do in it and the founding members will receive a substantial amount more money than the "invited" clubs each season as the prize money is not evenly distributed.

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6 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I think the thing then was people were warning that selling to US multi-sports franchise owners would lead to this, but the majority just accepted that things would continue as normal. And they've been proved wrong.

There's much more disquiet about the prospect of leaving the PL and effectively abandoning English football as they've known it.

A Man U diehard I know has told me this would be the last straw for him. Born in Salford, the guy has followed the club all his life, but now he's prepared to walk away.  

My sister-in-law and her husband have had Liverpool STs for decades. Spent tens upon tens of thousands following the club everywhere. They say they don't want this and will not be watching the club if it isn't in the English league system.  The husband reckons he'll just watch Bolton, the club nearest their home. 

Just anecdotal evidence, but I think your posts overestimate the attraction an ESL would have for fans Especially if it cuts them off from competitions in their home countries.

 

I think the protests will be huge and certainly next season many thousands will stay away.

When the ESL starts though, globally I think television ratings will be high, which constitutes success in the minds of the money men.

Hard-core fans will walk away from their clubs, no doubt. Some will reluctantly return eventually, and many will be replaced by a new generation of middle class families (oh look Archie, that's Erling Haaland) and football tourists. 

Again, anecdotal evidence; I heard a phone in on Radio 5 yesterday and one woman said that when the Glazers came in she was furious with Man U. She went to watch a few FC United games but eventually the pull of her club was too much and she found herself back at Old Trafford. She wasn't the only one admitting that despite their fury, they would probably be drawn in.

8 minutes ago, Olé said:

6AAE9C56-ACD2-418A-830F-873975C90316.thumb.jpeg.6e502dd1ec6a3f147ee04ad2aa76e573.jpeg

Vom....

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This idea seems to be driven mostly by US owners. First they are allowed to take over clubs and basically lump the cost onto the club's debt. Paying for it out of the profits. Now they want a cast iron guarantee that they can generate the money to pay for it. 

I think the authorities are acting too late here. They should never have allowed the leveraged buyouts of clubs in the first place. 

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24 minutes ago, mozo said:

think the protests will be huge and certainly next season many thousands will stay away.

Will it make a difference though? These clubs are only interested in the global tv/online streaming market. They’re not going to care about some mob outside the ground. It could turn nasty though! It all feels a bit hopeless unless the authorities have the balls to do something.

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16 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think the protests will be huge and certainly next season many thousands will stay away.

When the ESL starts though, globally I think television ratings will be high, which constitutes success in the minds of the money men.

Hard-core fans will walk away from their clubs, no doubt. Some will reluctantly return eventually, and many will be replaced by a new generation of middle class families (oh look Archie, that's Erling Haaland) and football tourists. 

Again, anecdotal evidence; I heard a phone in on Radio 5 yesterday and one woman said that when the Glazers came in she was furious with Man U. She went to watch a few FC United games but eventually the pull of her club was too much and she found herself back at Old Trafford. She wasn't the only one admitting that despite their fury, they would probably be drawn in.

Vom....

This time I agree with you, a lot of people will watch it and it will be deemed a success. I wonder what the KO times will be? They wont care about it suiting the UK viewer, they'll want to cater for the US and Asia markets. Will we see midnight games / early morning like PPV boxing events?

I listened to the radio some of the day and you're right many people were outraged but then when questioned if they'd walk away from their club and never watch them again they nearly all couldn't say no or answer the question. People don't want it, but the thought of not having their club at all is even worse. It's an identity for a lot of people. They'll lose some hardcore support, but as Covid has proved, football can operate at that level with zero fans in the ground. They dont need their hardcore ST holders any more and they dont profit from away fans so why would they care about them?

It's a horrible thought. It's why many of us dont see promotion to the Prem as the be all and end all. Of course I'd love to see my team at the highest level but every promotion brings another level of disconnect between club and fans. The likes of you and I and many 1000s of City fans who support their club because it's where we're from, where we live and represents who we are is alien to millions of "big 6" fans. Personally I'll never understand that connection to somewhere you've barely ever been and never go and watch 🤷‍♂️

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Saw someone suggest on Twitter that if the ESL happens teams should break away and form their own domestic league competitions.. 

Suggested teams for one league is this, looks good to me !

Millwall 
West Ham
Celtic
Rangers
Leeds
Swansea
Cardiff 
Bristol City
Portsmouth 
Stoke 
Birmingham 
Hearts
Hibs
Sunderland 
Wolves 
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Aston Villa 
Nottingham Forest
Aberdeen 
Newcastle 
Burnley
Everton
Derby

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Saw someone suggest on Twitter that if the ESL happens teams should break away and form their own domestic league competitions.. 

Suggested teams for one league is this, looks good to me !

Millwall 
West Ham
Celtic
Rangers
Leeds
Swansea
Cardiff 
Bristol City
Portsmouth 
Stoke 
Birmingham 
Hearts
Hibs
Sunderland 
Wolves 
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Aston Villa 
Nottingham Forest
Aberdeen 
Newcastle 
Burnley
Everton
Derby

After giving this 20 seconds thought, I like it a lot!

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30 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Saw someone suggest on Twitter that if the ESL happens teams should break away and form their own domestic league competitions.. 

Suggested teams for one league is this, looks good to me !

Millwall 
West Ham
Celtic
Rangers
Leeds
Swansea
Cardiff 
Bristol City
Portsmouth 
Stoke 
Birmingham 
Hearts
Hibs
Sunderland 
Wolves 
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Aston Villa 
Nottingham Forest
Aberdeen 
Newcastle 
Burnley
Everton
Derby

Quite a few clubs would be in front of us.

Quite like that though

Edited by Super
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19 minutes ago, Roe said:

I actually want this to happen.  Our domestic league suddenly looks a lot more interesting and sustainable (albeit at a lower level) without these 6 shithouse clubs imo

Yep.

But we all have to be strong and not be brow beaten by fear that football couldn’t possible exist without Liverpool 

Edited by 054123
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31 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

After giving this 20 seconds thought, I like it a lot!

Imagine the police bill 😆

5 minutes ago, Super said:

Quite a few clubs would be in front of us.

Quite like that though

It was just a jokey list someone drew up of clubs where there's potential for trouble 

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34 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Saw someone suggest on Twitter that if the ESL happens teams should break away and form their own domestic league competitions.. 

Suggested teams for one league is this, looks good to me !

Millwall 
West Ham
Celtic
Rangers
Leeds
Swansea
Cardiff 
Bristol City
Portsmouth 
Stoke 
Birmingham 
Hearts
Hibs
Sunderland 
Wolves 
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Aston Villa 
Nottingham Forest
Aberdeen 
Newcastle 
Burnley
Everton
Derby

Presumably there is another league with teams like Leicester, Palace, Fulham and Brighton in it? Because if not it's as big a load of bollocks as the ESL. Aberdeen and Hearts over Leicester City.............how can anyone take that remotely seriously?

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36 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Saw someone suggest on Twitter that if the ESL happens teams should break away and form their own domestic league competitions.. 

Suggested teams for one league is this, looks good to me !

Millwall 
West Ham
Celtic
Rangers
Leeds
Swansea
Cardiff 
Bristol City
Portsmouth 
Stoke 
Birmingham 
Hearts
Hibs
Sunderland 
Wolves 
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Aston Villa 
Nottingham Forest
Aberdeen 
Newcastle 
Burnley
Everton
Derby

What a weird list.  Portsmouth get bumped up 2 leagues but no Southampton.  Brighton, Palace, Watford and Norwich fans would also be pretty unimpressed.

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6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Imagine the police bill 😆

It was just a jokey list someone drew up of clubs where there's potential for trouble 

I was wondering how many we would take to Aberdeen on a  cold midweek winters night!

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I’ll always support my club, but without the premier league dream as we know it as a hope through everything the entire dynamic would change. 
 

I don’t know how sustainable it would really be with a set of fans who’s interest is declining season after season without the dream of that one golden year that takes us to the promised land. 

Edited by Bouncearoundtheground
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