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7 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

It is, but some part of me is leaning towards just telling them to do one at this point.

Then rebuild, create some sort of football constitution in this country to prevent it happening again and have caps on salaries, ownership models etc... football has badly needed a reset for some time and this could be a good opportunity. When the only measure of how successful the game is seems to be how much money it can make this was always going to happen.

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23 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

James Corden. A man who gets royally on my tits normally. Taking six minutes of prime US TV time to educate the Americans on what this means.

Beautifully said

 

Didn’t seem to get much reaction from the audience, who clearly had absolutely zero idea what he was taking about 🤣🤣

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Fair play.

Quote

Everton is saddened and disappointed to see proposals of a breakaway league pushed forward by six clubs.

Six clubs acting entirely in their own interests.

Six clubs tarnishing the reputation of our league and the game.

Six clubs choosing to disrespect every other club with whom they sit around the Premier League table.

Six clubs taking for granted and even betraying the majority of football supporters across our country and beyond.

At this time of national and international crisis - and a defining period for our game - clubs should be working together collaboratively with the ideals of our game and its supporters uppermost.

Instead, these clubs have been secretly conspiring to break away from a football pyramid that has served them so well.

And in that Pyramid Everton salutes EVERY club, be it Leicester City, Accrington Stanley, Gillingham, Lincoln City, Morecambe, Southend United, Notts County and the rest who have, with their very being, enriched the lives of their supporters throughout the game's history. And vice versa.

The self-proclaimed Super Six appear intent on disenfranchising supporters across the game - including their own - by putting the very structure that underpins the game we love under threat.

The backlash is understandable and deserved – and has to be listened to.

This preposterous arrogance is not wanted anywhere in football outside of the clubs that have drafted this plan.

On behalf of everyone associated with Everton, we respectfully ask that the proposals are immediately withdrawn and that the private meetings and subversive practises that have brought our beautiful game to possibly its lowest ever position in terms of trust end now.

Finally we would ask the owners, chairmen, and Board members of the six clubs to remember the privileged position they hold – not only as custodians of their clubs but also custodians of the game. The responsibility they carry should be taken seriously.

We urge them all to consider what they wish their legacy to be.

Everton FC Board of Directors

 

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18 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

This is an interesting angle actually. These 12 clubs are multi million/billion businesses and have to abide rules that prevent cartels, price fixing and anti competitive behaviour. I'd imagine regulators in UK and EU would potentially look on establishing a total monopoly like this in a very dim light. The fines available for this kind of thing can be very punitive and the leaders behind companies that commit these acts can face serious sanction.

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7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

It is, but some part of me is leaning towards just telling them to do one at this point.

Then rebuild, create some sort of football constitution in this country to prevent it happening again and have caps on salaries, ownership models etc... football has badly needed a reset for some time and this could be a good opportunity. When the only measure of how successful the game is seems to be how much money it can make this was always going to happen.

Whilst I like the sound of that in principle, the thing that keeps troubling me is will you have the ESL with big TV money and no financial constraints buying all the best players in the world, then our domestic competition will be sustainable and ethical but lacking in quality. Would we end up with a West Berlin / East Berlin scenario?

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Thinking about this I'm finding myself torn. 

Do I want the authorities to find a way of stopping the ESL happening? Or might I prefer it to go ahead, but with football authorities to ban participating clubs from any ties to, or participation in the domestic leagues from which they came and players banned from UEFA or FIFA competitions? 

I'm increasingly finding myself drawn towards the latter. 

 

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1 minute ago, CheddarReds said:

https://fcbayern.com/en/news/2021/04/european-super-league---statement-from-karl-heinz-rummenigge 

Karl Heinz-Rummenigge, Bayern Munich CEO, seemingly siding with many opinions on this thread that football should focus on becoming more sustainable after the economic impact of COVID

I find Bayern an interesting case because if the ESL gets up and running, what do Bayern do if all their players want to jump ship and follow the €€€?

Bayern has always enjoyed a position of power whereby they're the wealthiest club in Germany and can take their pick of the Bundesliga stars. What happens should they be devalued in this way?

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13 minutes ago, mozo said:

Whilst I like the sound of that in principle, the thing that keeps troubling me is will you have the ESL with big TV money and no financial constraints buying all the best players in the world, then our domestic competition will be sustainable and ethical but lacking in quality. Would we end up with a West Berlin / East Berlin scenario?

Would we though?  Not all players will be blinded by money.  Some will want to represent their country on the biggest stage and at present the threat is that they will be unable to.  You will get several of those players looking at the World Cup and Euros and wishing they were there.  If anything it will end up something akin to MLS or CSL where aging players go for one last payday.  At least I hope that's how it will go, but maybe that's just me being an old romantic.

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Just now, Steve Watts said:

Would we though?  Not all players will be blinded by money.  Some will want to represent their country on the biggest stage and at present the threat is that they will be unable to.  You will get several of those players looking at the World Cup and Euros and wishing they were there.  If anything it will end up something akin to MLS or CSL where aging players go for one last payday.  At least I hope that's how it will go, but maybe that's just me being an old romantic.

What would the football agents advise their players to do? Mino Raiola is at war with UEFA.

Is it ridiculous if I suggest that if players from ESL clubs were banned from the Euros and World Cup, that the ESL would launch their own "World Series"?

This is about greed, but also control.

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8 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Would we though?  Not all players will be blinded by money.  Some will want to represent their country on the biggest stage and at present the threat is that they will be unable to.  You will get several of those players looking at the World Cup and Euros and wishing they were there.  If anything it will end up something akin to MLS or CSL where aging players go for one last payday.  At least I hope that's how it will go, but maybe that's just me being an old romantic.

Tend to agree. Also put a transfer ban in place so the only players they can pick up are those OOC or free agents.

I really think this is a huge opportunity not to be missed to bring British football back to some kind of sanity.

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32 minutes ago, mozo said:

Whilst I like the sound of that in principle, the thing that keeps troubling me is will you have the ESL with big TV money and no financial constraints buying all the best players in the world, then our domestic competition will be sustainable and ethical but lacking in quality. Would we end up with a West Berlin / East Berlin scenario?

There are only a handful of clubs going, and if their players can't represent their country then I'm not sure they'd all want to do so. I also think their vast youth squads would be hugely cut as I'm assuming they wouldn't be able to be loaned back to domestic leagues. That means all the talented kids that Chelsea and co gobble up by the hundred would instead be dispersed around the rest of the clubs and potentially (shock horror) actually playing football.

It also depends on what you mean by quality - there are plenty of great players outside the clubs mentioned. We were worried all the best players were going to flee to China a few years back, but that's not really happened.

The current model seems to be you wait to see the best players you mention in your 3 - 4 home games each season against one of the bigger clubs who have vastly more wealth, power, and influence to you so you can coo while getting beaten by players earning 20x what yours do. I'd take the sustainable/ethical option personally!

Ideally the clubs would stay AND we'd get better regulations. I'd take them leaving and getting the regulations if that was the price we had to pay.

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4 minutes ago, mozo said:

What would the football agents advise their players to do? Mino Raiola is at war with UEFA.

Is it ridiculous if I suggest that if players from ESL clubs were banned from the Euros and World Cup, that the ESL would launch their own "World Series"?

This is about greed, but also control.

It's a decision taken by people out of the spotlight who won't ever put themselves in the spotlight.  I've a feeling that the players may surprise us.  After all they are in the spotlight and those with morals (and those with ego's too) I'm certain would want their reputation enhanced, and standing up for the fans would certainly give them widespread adulation. 

Essentially what you're suggesting about a world series is just the players playing against the same players they already play against in the ESL, and not with the best in the world.  Those who don't wish to sell out won't be involved. (I'm aware that the reverse is also true in that the World Cup and Euro are also devalued by missing some of the best in the world.)

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2 minutes ago, mozo said:

What would the football agents advise their players to do? Mino Raiola is at war with UEFA.

Is it ridiculous if I suggest that if players from ESL clubs were banned from the Euros and World Cup, that the ESL would launch their own "World Series"?

This is about greed, but also control.

World series of what? Are they going to have Norway turn up with Haaland against 5 German players? Banger of a game that will be. They will have their 15/20 clubs and that's it, they just gonna have a random "world Series" with the same clubs that are in the super league? Realistically the best they could manage would be some shitty Europe vs South America all star game, and **** me that would be shitter than Soccer aid. 

Let them go, protect the remaining clubs from having their stadiums sold from under them, realistically thats the only risk to a clubs existence, if SL chipped off now and we went "bust" as long as Bristol City FC retained the use and ownership by law of AG and it could not be sold we would be able to re form and run as a sustainable club that only pays wages that a consistent 10/15 k crowd would support and football goes on without the big 6.

Would it be as "good" of course it would, yes playing Man U and City was great, but would I swap any of that for the pure pandemonium When Roberts scored against Hartlepool to take us to the league 1 playoff final, would I bollocks. 

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24 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

https://fcbayern.com/en/news/2021/04/european-super-league---statement-from-karl-heinz-rummenigge 

Karl Heinz-Rummenigge, Bayern Munich CEO, seemingly siding with many opinions on this thread that football should focus on becoming more sustainable after the economic impact of COVID

He’s changed his tune. From Feb 2016 :
 

https://www.worldsoccer.com/news/clubs-want-reform-but-deny-talk-of-a-european-super-league-368491

Quote :  

ECA boss Karl-Heinz Rummenigge has suggested “a tournament consisting of 20 teams from Italy, England, Spain, Germany and France”.

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4 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Tend to agree. Also put a transfer ban in place so the only players they can pick up are those OOC or free agents.

I really think this is a huge opportunity not to be missed to bring British football back to some kind of sanity.

Whilst I agree, these conglomerates can afford the very best legal eagles money can buy and such a move may be challenged as a restriction of movement for players who wish to join them.  I don't know if it would win, but it could unravel contracts across the whole spectrum.  I would certainly at the very least look for clubs make an agreement with all other clubs that valuations for any targets of the self professed elite are quadrupled (or more).  If they want the best then they will have to eat into their precious profits to get them.

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8 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

Karl Heinz-Rummenigge, Bayern Munich CEO, seemingly siding with many opinions on this thread that football should focus on becoming more sustainable after the economic impact of COVID

Funnily enough, in the article on the ESL's unpublished vision posted by @SecretSam earlier, they actually say exactly the same about trying to achieve sustainability after COVID.

Unfortunately in their case it is from the ridiculous and illogical position that the way to achieve sustainability is for the clubs that have racked up huge amounts of debt in order to be successful, should be bailed out by having their right to success in future being guaranteed at everyone else's expense. :wacko:

This is classic private equity thinking - don't actually find a sustainable economic model, just throw enough money at it until you kill off everyone else and profit/survive by default. Enabled by banks that have billions of spare cash on tap and always ready to help out funding the next predatory investment*.

 *for anyone who isn't angry enough about this, the last financial crisis was caused by banks just like JP Morgan, helping investors and hedge funds to effectively bet on the return on mortgage lending to poor/sub-prime people, speculation that even our high-street banks enabled. Resulting in us all bailing them out. This isn't a political point, it is simply highlighting a difference between a free market and rampant greed.

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

He’s changed his tune. From Feb 2016 :
 

https://www.worldsoccer.com/news/clubs-want-reform-but-deny-talk-of-a-european-super-league-368491

Quote :  

ECA boss Karl-Heinz Rummenigge has suggested “a tournament consisting of 20 teams from Italy, England, Spain, Germany and France”.

Wasn't he talking about CL changes there?

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43 minutes ago, mozo said:

Whilst I like the sound of that in principle, the thing that keeps troubling me is will you have the ESL with big TV money and no financial constraints buying all the best players in the world, then our domestic competition will be sustainable and ethical but lacking in quality. Would we end up with a West Berlin / East Berlin scenario?

Surely the clubs won't need such massive squads if they are only playing once a week? It would be a huge gamble for a player to sacrifice all other avenues in order to play in the SL. 

The EFL will survive, there are enough players to go round.

 

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5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

There are only a handful of clubs going, and if their players can't represent their country then I'm not sure they'd all want to do so. I also think their vast youth squads would be hugely cut as I'm assuming they wouldn't be able to be loaned back to domestic leagues. That means all the talented kids that Chelsea and co gobble up by the hundred would instead be dispersed around the rest of the clubs and potentially (shock horror) actually playing football.

It also depends on what you mean by quality - there are plenty of great players outside the clubs mentioned. We were worried all the best players were going to flee to China a few years back, but that's not really happened.

The current model seems to be you wait to see the best players you mention in your 3 - 4 home games each season against one of the bigger clubs who have vastly more wealth, power, and influence to you so you can coo while getting beaten by players earning 20x what yours do. I'd take the second of your options personally!

Ideally the clubs would stay AND we'd get better regulations. I'd take them leaving and getting the regulations if that was the price we had to pay.

There are plenty of good players not in the top 6 currently, but the economic inequality would create an environment whereby the vast majority of players aspire to the ESL and their agents would support that. Fleeing to the ESL would be easier than fleeing to China, although the Chinese market would very much be the target. 

Hopefully the domestic league would be able to sustain itself, I'm just not clear on what that looks like.

2 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

It's a decision taken by people out of the spotlight who won't ever put themselves in the spotlight.  I've a feeling that the players may surprise us.  After all they are in the spotlight and those with morals (and those with ego's too) I'm certain would want their reputation enhanced, and standing up for the fans would certainly give them widespread adulation. 

Essentially what you're suggesting about a world series is just the players playing against the same players they already play against in the ESL, and not with the best in the world.  Those who don't wish to sell out won't be involved. (I'm aware that the reverse is also true in that the World Cup and Euro are also devalued by missing some of the best in the world.)

Yeah it is pathetic that these decision makers are hiding from scrutiny.

Regards an alternative world cup, we're getting ahead of ourselves, but I wouldn't rule it out, particularly if we're genuinely contemplating the Qatar world cup going ahead potentially without a load of big stars, which to me sounds unsustainable.

An alternative world cup is difficult but not impossible. Probably wouldn't happen until the ESL had expanded considerably and/or partners with other leagues. Money talks.

 

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Wicked thoughts but couldn't the football authorities in tandem with the Government and Local Authorities find a way of closing the stadiums of the big 6 at the last minute for each game night. Last minute because I'd like to see the greedy clubs go to the expense of travel and accommodation before the game was 'postponed'. Perhaps, for example, inadequate police resources to ensure safety of players and club officials from public protests

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I would like to see the football authorities punish these businesses even if they do back down.  The damage they've cause quite possible and understandably should be irreversible and never forgotten. 

Football should be taking a different direction given the last year and sorting itself out financially to bring things back in to perspective NOT letting/forgiving businesses like this become the leading light for everything that is wrong with football now - GREED.

And let's not forget the players and agents part that they have played in getting to this point. Excessive wage demands and fees which keep increasing year on year have contributed to these owners looking for new ways to increase their profits - GREED. 

So Leeds players can wear those t-shirts and Everton can release that statement but I'm sure had they been invitied and they faced the prospect of making Billions more from this, then they would have snapped up the opportunity. 

Football at all levels has to change and very quickly. 

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17 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Whilst I agree, these conglomerates can afford the very best legal eagles money can buy and such a move may be challenged as a restriction of movement for players who wish to join them.  I don't know if it would win, but it could unravel contracts across the whole spectrum.  I would certainly at the very least look for clubs make an agreement with all other clubs that valuations for any targets of the self professed elite are quadrupled (or more).  If they want the best then they will have to eat into their precious profits to get them.

Conversely, players currently contracted to proposed ESL clubs may feel that their opportunities (International football etc etc) are being curtailed and restricted through no fault of their own. I can see a lot of transfer requests being put in and the prospect of legal action in that regard. Bit of a 2 way street really.

Two other thoughts that I had.  1) I wonder if Prince MBS of Saudi is glad his proposed takeover of Newcastle fell through.  2) I wonder what the new owners of Ipswich are thinking now that their return on investment potential may now be a lot less than expected.

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