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3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I'm not saying it's the same issue. I'm saying that if ever there was a time for Sam Allardyce to shut the **** up, this is it.

As with anybody else on the football gravy train who have secured their financial futures. That includes ex players.

Again we are talking about 2 very different scenarios here.

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1 minute ago, Superjack said:

Well, that is indeed an argument, but I think accepting bribes and bungs is a somewhat different.

As is getting paid money via different channels to minimise tax liability. How many Tesco workers get paid things like image rights ?

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2 minutes ago, BigTone said:

As is getting paid money via different channels to minimise tax liability. How many Tesco workers get paid things like image rights ?

I don't disagree, but that is another debate.

Sam Allardyce should not have the tumerity to be criticising anybody for feathering their own nest.

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3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I don't disagree, but that is another debate.

Sam Allardyce should not have the tumerity to be criticising anybody for feathering their own nest.

Let's remember he was rather set up by one of our wonderful pure as driven snow newspapers.

Let's agree to disagree.

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Just now, Roger Red Hat said:

I see that Perez has warned that without the ESL, clubs won't be able to sign players like Haaland or Mbappe. I'm in bits......

And that's very true. The galactico era is gone and the one time giants of European football can't stomach that. 

We have a strange situation whereby player values have continued to rise, but club finances are at a desperate low. 

So Haaland wants to move to a big club, but no big clubs can afford him. 

Kane probably wants to win titles in his career, but he's stuck on a long term contract that a few years ago he would get bought out of but now not gonna happen. He faces being one of the best Premier League strikers ever, but winning as much as Matt LeTissier won.

Messi became available, but no one could afford his wages.

Will Sancho, Grealish and Mbappe get the moves they want?

Scrapping FFP would give these clubs a chance to siphon money into their kitty again, probably with damaging long term fiscal consequences.

The ESL was another solution.

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Nice.

Quote

The Super League’s founding clubs had agreed so-called “exit clauses” designed to keep them in the competition once money was raised to fund the project, according to leaked documents confirmed by the Financial Times.

As part of the clauses, the clubs agreed not to abandon their new competition before June 2025, and thereafter would have to issue notice to leave at least a season in advance.

Super League clubs would also have been liable to pay back money received from an initial “infrastructure grant”, the €3.25bn intended to be shared between 15 founding Super League clubs and provided through a debt-financing deal underwritten by US bank JPMorgan Chase.

The measures show the high stakes involved in joining the Super League, but the sanctions related to exit clauses also appear dependent on money flowing to the teams, which has not yet happened as the breakaway plan was first announced just two days ago.

However, legal risks remain for the clubs as the project flounders. The dozen teams that agreed to play in the competition signed binding contracts to join the competition, according to several people familiar with the terms of the deal.

The remaining Super League clubs have the option to sue those who are quitting in an attempt to enforce the deal, and it remains unclear what liabilities the clubs face for choosing to withdraw.

 

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I think Real Madrid and Barca are so desperate for money they will do anything. Those two clubs have had it coming for years, and this might be the point of no return. I also don't believe the clubs that have left the ESL would so quickly exit if there were significant legal and financial penalties to do so. Perez is a dodgy bastard, and its his fag packet this has been written on. The Yanks are clearly no saints in this, but all roads lead to him i reckon

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22 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

 

Well said John. 
As I posted a few pages back, it’s a romantic notion to believe that fan power caused this change. Nonsense. These people don’t make any decisions based on the fans opinions. You think the Glazers went through a year of constant abuse at the ground and didn’t blink, yet they suddenly found their morals after 24 hours of discontent. Nonsense. Their u-turn is because they were backed into a corner by uefa and their bottom line would’ve been affected. They’ll find another way soon enough. 

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I will not be shedding a tear if any (or all) of Real, Barca and Juve suffer huge financial problems in the coming years - I'd feel sorry for the loyal (NOT LEGACY!) fans of those clubs if any actually folded and went out of existence, but if they instead had to sell most of their assets and cancel contracts, and as a result ended up failing to qualify for the Champions League, or even getting relegated once or twice I will be of the attitude that they got what they deserved for overspending. Of course Perez will blame the failure of ESL rather than his criminal mismanagement of business finance by spending beyond its means for years on end.

I will not be shedding a tear if overpaid players struggle to find new clubs because their salary demands are too high - Players are a huge part of the problem here. Football needs a more sustainable model in regard to their salaries. It is ok the Liverpool lads tweeting they are against ESL, but when it comes time to renegotiate their contracts will they realise thay THEY are the most major cause of the problem in football, (rising costs) and therefore not ask for a pay rise, or better yet, negotiate a reduced contract.

As for agents? I know there may be a few good ones about, but agents fees should be capped and NEVER based on transfer value or the player salary - there are plenty of snakes in that industry and I hope that it gets looked at and stricter regulation brought in across the globe. If a few of the snakes die in the fires of ESL? guess what? I wont shed a ****ing tear!

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Well said John. 
As I posted a few pages back, it’s a romantic notion to believe that fan power caused this change. Nonsense. These people don’t make any decisions based on the fans opinions. You think the Glazers went through a year of constant abuse at the ground and didn’t blink, yet they suddenly found their morals after 24 hours of discontent. Nonsense. Their u-turn is because they were backed into a corner by uefa and their bottom line would’ve been affected. They’ll find another way soon enough. 

The Athletic noted the following influences for the English clubs U-turn...

 

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3 minutes ago, mozo said:

The Athletic noted the following influences for the English clubs U-turn...

 

Exactly mate. The fan pressure counted for very little, if anything at all. But they’ll save a bit of face by glibly stating “oh, we listened to the fans”. Nonsense did they. They listened to their pockets. 

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What still amazes me, is that when you think of a big International tournament- supporters from all over unite for one common goal. City/Rovers, Liverpool/Everton, Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea, Man United/City - all together as one.

If you have one club, say Newcastle for example, not unusual to have protests against Ashley, banners etc. However that's one club.

Ignoring the "Elite" club's supporters', you would have had at least 86 other clubs' supporters going against the move as one united front. Just happened that the majority of the supporters from their own clubs were also against the idea.

You then have the same from the other countries. This was never, ever going to just "happen" that easily/if at all.

I agree with docking all 12 club's points, either this season or make them start on -30 next. 

The frustrating thing with these owners, is that they don't actually have a clue and are so far apart from the average person, that they're probably already plotting their next moves and "brainstorming" ideas to help keep the supporters happy.

The whole episode is a shambles, and just shows how much of a farce it was by how quickly they all started pulling out.

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

Exactly mate. The fan pressure counted for very little, if anything at all. But they’ll save a bit of face by glibly stating “oh, we listened to the fans”. Nonsense did they. They listened to their pockets. 

If everyone was in agreement apart from the fans, they’d paint them as mindless yobs...the fans haven’t had any influence on decisions over the last 30 years. It’s very naive to think so, and will be used to manipulate them over decisions in the future.

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54 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I think Real Madrid and Barca are so desperate for money they will do anything. Those two clubs have had it coming for years, and this might be the point of no return. I also don't believe the clubs that have left the ESL would so quickly exit if there were significant legal and financial penalties to do so. Perez is a dodgy bastard, and its his fag packet this has been written on. The Yanks are clearly no saints in this, but all roads lead to him i reckon

You're completely right. There is a detailed report on Perez in the FT today and apparently his business empire (toll roads and things like that) just like Real Madrid, is massively over leveraged (still paying back past borrowing), and he struggles to get new funding for further expansion projects, which is holding him back, just like he thinks Real Madrid is.

Apparently in both business and football he has recently been trying to employ a strategy of getting more certain income streams in these existing business, with which he can secure the new lending that is otherwise eluding him. In the case of Real Madrid that involved hatching a plan for a closed shop football league with no risk and guaranteed income.

It also goes further into the private equity house in Madrid who drew up the ESL plan. The guy doing all the work is a close long time friend of Perez and does ALL his financing. How the other clubs didn't recognise a conflict to sign up to an idea hatched by the guy running Perez interests, and not realise Perez would be thinking primarily of number one...!?

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8 hours ago, Harry said:

Well said John. 
As I posted a few pages back, it’s a romantic notion to believe that fan power caused this change. Nonsense. These people don’t make any decisions based on the fans opinions. You think the Glazers went through a year of constant abuse at the ground and didn’t blink, yet they suddenly found their morals after 24 hours of discontent. Nonsense. Their u-turn is because they were backed into a corner by uefa and their bottom line would’ve been affected. They’ll find another way soon enough. 

Nail on the head, in my view, Harry. I wonder whether players had an impact too; probably more so than fans anyway.

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1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Nail on the head, in my view, Harry. I wonder whether players had an impact too; probably more so than fans anyway.

Nah I don’t think the players had any impact either. 
They were only upset because they may have been at threat of losing their place in the Prem or in their national teams. Had it not been for that I’m sure the players would secretly not give too many ***** either to be honest. 
The players were saying what they thought the fans wanted to hear. It’s all a charade. 
One reason and one reason only that this attempt failed, and that is the loss of income from being kicked out of uefa competitions. 
Uefa are a sinister bunch of pricks too, so I don’t wanna praise them too much, but by standing their ground on this one, they managed to put a stop to it. 
This will be back in another guise soon enough, you can guarantee that. 

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I just listened to Guillem Balague revealing that the main reasons were clubs being spooked by UEFA, royal and political pressures, and that Man City weren't committed and started the domino effect. He didn't think fans had an influence.

 

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While the motives of the ESL was pure financial greed, I do accept there is a need to shake up of the game.

Don’t think I’m alone in getting a bit bored by the game and fatigued by things like play acting, boring ‘crab’ football, lack of respect for referees, crap atmospheres, the absence of English talent in Premier League Clubs, and obscene salary payments. 
 

Time for change, but not that proposed by ESL club owners. 

 

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perez.png.5b2622c2f53f3ec85d42728eeb4ec8c0.png              "This will save football..."

                                                    "Save your a*** more like!"                    royle.png.844521345529b7a51dad50318942ab6f.png

 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Nah I don’t think the players had any impact either. 
They were only upset because they may have been at threat of losing their place in the Prem or in their national teams. Had it not been for that I’m sure the players would secretly not give too many ***** either to be honest. 
The players were saying what they thought the fans wanted to hear. It’s all a charade. 
One reason and one reason only that this attempt failed, and that is the loss of income from being kicked out of uefa competitions. 
Uefa are a sinister bunch of pricks too, so I don’t wanna praise them too much, but by standing their ground on this one, they managed to put a stop to it. 
This will be back in another guise soon enough, you can guarantee that. 

I didn't think the loss of income from Uefa competitions would have been an issue - surely they'd have expected that? The whole point was that it replaced the Champions League, no?? It was the potential loss of income from being kicked out of domestic leagues surely? And, for the players, not individuals having their say over the last few days, but the potential loss of internationals, domestic leagues, which would leave them pretty high and dry??

Agree they won't let it rest here.

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Real Madrid appear to be leading this one and behind it is purely financial. Their President says that their normal annual income of 900 million Euros has reduced by £00 million euros. So the ECL is their greedy way to make up the shortfall.

Another sensible way is to reduce the obscene wages they are paying. Gareth Bale for instance is their best paid at over 80 million Euros per annum. I am sure Bale could survive on 50 million Euros a year!

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