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Ivorguy

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Just now, TomThumb84 said:

If he was not playing (as you admit he shouldn’t be), then the judgement of him is irrelevant.

The fact that he has not netted for 10+ games compounds this and hard to argue for an OOC non-committed, non-scoring striker my friend.

I'm not your friend.

This doesn't even make any sort of sense. 

If he is not playing, you can't judge him. He was playing. And your judgement is tainted in my opinion.

And if you are judging him on goals alone, then your judgement is irrelevant.

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2 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I'm not your friend.

This doesn't even make any sort of sense. 

If he is not playing, you can't judge him. He was playing. And your judgement is tainted in my opinion.

And if you are judging him on goals alone, then your judgement is irrelevant.

Ok (not my friend).

I am judging him as a centre-forward.

His hold up play is not good enough.

His ability in the air is not good enough.

He has not scored since Feb 23rd.

He was not one of our best players tonight.

That’s it.

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Just now, TomThumb84 said:

Ok (not my friend).

I am judging him as a centre-forward.

His hold up play is not good enough.

His ability in the air is not good enough.

He has not scored since Feb 23rd.

He was not one of our best players tonight.

That’s it.

You can be my friend, if that’s any consolation.

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1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Ok (not my friend).

I am judging him as a centre-forward.

His hold up play is not good enough.

His ability in the air is not good enough.

He has not scored since Feb 23rd.

He was not one of our best players tonight.

That’s it.

Well that's bollocks for a start.

His ability in the air is clearly better than our entire defence and goalkeeper. Especially in our own box.

 

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Just now, Superjack said:

Well that's bollocks for a start.

His ability in the air is clearly better than our entire defence and goalkeeper. Especially in our own box.

 

Odd agenda you have here. Not sure what you are trying to achieve or prove, the guy has practically left our club.

He plays (shouldn’t as we both agree) as a CENTRE-FORWARD. This odd rhetoric that he is brilliant because he can defend corners is bizarre.

And he is not better in the air than Dan Bentley who admittedly has the advantage of being able to use his hands.

Enough of this now.

All the best.

 

 

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1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Odd agenda you have here. Not sure what you are trying to achieve or prove, the guy has practically left our club.

He plays (shouldn’t as we both agree) as a CENTRE-FORWARD. This odd rhetoric that he is brilliant because he can defend corners is bizarre.

And he is not better in the air than Dan Bentley who admittedly has the advantage of being able to use his hands.

Enough of this now.

All the best.

 

 

Dan Bentley is ****ing awful in the air and basically sh*ts himself every time a high cross comes in.

But yes, enough of this. I would rather debate with people that have some semblance of a clue.

Have a good night.

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1 hour ago, harvey54 said:

How can you motivate players who know that they won't be here in 6 weeks? They've got nothing to play for. They're empty husks of players 

Because they are supposed to be professionals and they are very well paid. There is no excuse in or out of contract. The fact many seem to have downed tools tells you all you need to know about the useless recruiting that has gone on under Mark Ashton's watch. Thank the lord he is off.

I expected very little from the rump end of the season other than to keep us in this division and then have the major clear out in the summer. NP's primary concern now is to learn every scrap he can about every player. For that he needs to play them. It's facile for people to criticise him based upon the circumstances he finds the club.

I don't have huge confidence in SL appointing him on a long term contract but 100% he should and he should have done it weeks ago frankly.

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1 hour ago, Hampshire Red said:

Yet another woeful display brings out a few cert's on OTIB; 1) those who didnt like Lj for his 'awful football' have gone really,really quiet as the same squad look so defensively naive and unmotivated.2) those who didnt think Holden did a decent job are also very quiet, wondering like me, what has NP brought to the party. Surely the two other coaches must go and NP allowed to bring in his own players and coaches; losing to Wycome is really bad isnt it?

Not sure what point scoring and dredging up the past brings to the party either. 

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I am urging Rotherham to win in every game but they have faltered of late; tiredness and pressure getting to them no doubt. It would be very lovely if they crossed the line to safety on the last day and Wayne Rooney's Derby went down. Oh such loveliness beyond ones dreams may not yet forsake thee.

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16 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Odd agenda you have here. Not sure what you are trying to achieve or prove, the guy has practically left our club.

He plays (shouldn’t as we both agree) as a CENTRE-FORWARD. This odd rhetoric that he is brilliant because he can defend corners is bizarre.

And he is not better in the air than Dan Bentley who admittedly has the advantage of being able to use his hands.

Enough of this now.

All the best.

 

 

And well done for going back and retrospectively reacting to my posts to you.

You really are something.

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51 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Thanks for that. Useful response.

He had not committed to the club, has no goals since Middlesbrough (a), on the 23rd Feb, and has shown very little desire for the cause.

Hard to see how I am wrong really.

Who we talking about here because i have missed it,is it Wells,O’Dowda,Nagy or Fammy and countless others,the only one out of contract is Fammy so he has a excuse not to pull his finger out,not sure what the others excuses are

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7 minutes ago, Superjack said:

And well done for going back and retrospectively reacting to my posts to you.

You really are something.

Not sure there is any other way of reacting to posts than to do so retrospectively.

I was inspired when you started comparing our centre-forwards ability in the air to that of our goalkeeper, and then pleaded to debate with someone with “some semblance of a clue”.

Phenomenal effort. 

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4 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Who we talking about here because i have missed it,is it Wells,O’Dowda,Nagy or Fammy and countless others,the only one out of contract is Fammy so he has a excuse not to pull his finger out,not sure what the others excuses are

Wells possibly, O’Dowda injured, Nagy hardly featured.

Call me old fashioned but I do take a slightly different view on a player (Fam) that does not want to play for us next season.

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1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Not sure there is any other way of reacting to posts than to do so retrospectively.

I was inspired when you started comparing our centre-forwards ability in the air to that of our goalkeeper, and then pleaded to debate with someone with “some semblance of a clue”.

Phenomenal effort. 

Thanks.

Glad I inspired you.

Maybe one day someone can educate you as well.

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1 hour ago, Magger1 said:

This man has brought nothing to the table in footballing nouce , I think there’s better motivators out there , we want attacking on the grass football at Ashton gate not kick and chase 

Name someone. Anyone. I'll wait.

Pearson got a song out of Watford when they were bottom of the Prem with Ismaila Sarr injured (3 months). Their squad was nothing to write home about. He got them out of the relegation zone only to be sacked - with Watford suitably relegated, but they way they pressed teams was super under Pearson, he got them drilled and organised. 

He got a team, considered already basically relegated, fighting again. 

The asterisk here is that, Watford have football people on board. They have a network and people that know football. 

In us, he's inherited LJ's clubs in the bag, Holden's hopeless over the hill signings, Ashton's shit-show, disillusioned fans, and an owner half the world away whose son (our supposed stand-in board member) is awol half the world away. 

Entire coaching staff and playing staff respectively need gutting. They're all culpable.

Either way, it seems to me the clubs been going down the shitter since Keith Dawe stepped down. The man set the ball rolling not arrogant Ashton. 

Below is imposed from the resignation announcement from the board.

"Away from competitive action, Dawe has witnessed the redevelopment of Ashton Gate and has supported the approval of the club’s application for new state-of-the-art training facilities at its Failand base, which will further enhance the club’s successful player pathway programme."

Ashton's ****** us. 

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2 hours ago, Magger1 said:

This man has brought nothing to the table in footballing nouce , I think there’s better motivators out there , we want attacking on the grass football at Ashton gate not kick and chase 

Who would you like to see Magger?

What potential do you think he could draw out from individual players?

Or would you look to him for a re-build?

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1 hour ago, Superjack said:

Well that's bollocks for a start.

His ability in the air is clearly better than our entire defence and goalkeeper. Especially in our own box.

 

How many uncontested headers did Stewart, Jacobsen and Grimmer have tonight?

How many diags did Stewart, Jacobsen and Grimmer hit tonight under absolutely no pressure at all?

How many times did Stockdale clear under no pressure?

Flip that to Vyner and Kalas versus Ikpeazu?  They also needed Lansbury to help pin him because the Wycombe defenders could get their heads up and ping a ball towards him.

Diedhiou ambles around and it has a serious negative impact on the team structure and is knock on pressure it puts us under.

I’m amazed NP isn’t seeing it.  Maybe he is but feels it’s a better option than exposing Conway or Janneh when they’re not really ready?

For me the above facets are the bare minimum....all they require effort.

I haven’t even started to talk about technical ability when he gets the ball, because tonight he lost so many balls through poor touch, poor receiving body position, basic shielding the ball etc.  He did make a couple of nice touches, but it was another poverty performance.

Wells was poor tonight, but did you see that incident in the first half when Fam lost it on the halfway line, towards the near touch line?  Wells ran from 10 yards behind Fam to 10 yards past him to chase the man who had nipped the ball off Fam, whilst Fam just stood there.  At least he runs around, makes options, all whilst playing out of position.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

How many uncontested headers did Stewart, Jacobsen and Grimmer have tonight?

How many diags did Stewart, Jacobsen and Grimmer hit tonight under absolutely no pressure at all?

How many times did Stockdale clear under no pressure?

Flip that to Vyner and Kalas versus Ikpeazu?  They also needed Lansbury to help pin him because the Wycombe defenders could get their heads up and ping a ball towards him.

Diedhiou ambles around and it has a serious negative impact on the team structure and is knock on pressure it puts us under.

I’m amazed NP isn’t seeing it.  Maybe he is but feels it’s a better option than exposing Conway or Janneh when they’re not really ready?

For me the above facets are the bare minimum....all they require effort.

I haven’t even started to talk about technical ability when he gets the ball, because tonight he lost so many balls through poor touch, poor receiving body position, basic shielding the ball etc.  He did make a couple of nice touches, but it was another poverty performance.

Wells was poor tonight, but did you see that incident in the first half when Fam lost it on the halfway line, towards the near touch line?  Wells ran from 10 yards behind Fam to 10 yards past him to chase the man who had nipped the ball off Fam, whilst Fam just stood there.  At least he runs around, makes options, all whilst playing out of position.

Very well put as expected.

For me, a clumsy, lackadaisical centre-forward performance, and the incident you refer to with Wells when Fam just let Wells chase back after Fam’s own poor touch made me apoplectic. What worries me about that incident specifically is that it was allowed to go by unchecked. Kalas, Lansbury, even Nagy or Rowe should have been at him after that. Speaks volumes.

The fact that he will not be here next season is (mostly) the clubs fault, the fact that he cannot apply himself whilst still here is his fault. The fact he is still getting picked is baffling.

Anyone who knows football will find his current output at best frustrating and at worst negligent.

For what its worth, for me, even if he had signed a bumper 3 year deal, his current level of performance does not warrant a place.

Lets not forget that this was the clubs record signing, ambling towards the exit with zero recompense for our club, because we have catastrophically mismanaged the whole thing.

A complete mess and leaves a sour taste for all.

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3 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Yet another woeful display brings out a few cert's on OTIB; 1) those who didnt like Lj for his 'awful football' have gone really,really quiet as the same squad look so defensively naive and unmotivated.2) those who didnt think Holden did a decent job are also very quiet, wondering like me, what has NP brought to the party. Surely the two other coaches must go and NP allowed to bring in his own players and coaches; losing to Wycome is really bad isnt it?

LJ didn't have players whittling contracts down to consider, as Ashton actually did his job selling them on when former was in charge, its only here and now its come to a head.

The latter's last 12 months have been nothing short of a farce.

How can Pearson be blamed where the playing squad, contract issues, staff, and outlying factors remain exacty the same?

Like expecting a new manager bounce when th trampoline is lead-lined.

In fact, Pearson has it worse - the squad had more reason to fight for Dean given he was 'popular'. Nige can only play on their pride, literally the only tool he has. Anyone appointed, in the same position, same problem.

Short Answer:

They don't care.

Off the pitch, things have gone downhill since Keith Dawe resigned.

Ashton's taken credit for his legwork (stadium and training facilities). Jon's designed us a couple of football shirts and gone Awol. Wage spending has gone up 40% in three years since foremost name resigned.

Change is needed, now, from top to bottom. The only part I'd leave in place is Nigel Pearson. The only person looking in with any track record of promotion and PL experience in this club.

Off the pitch? - Massive work needed. Ashton has left a bloated disease ridden husk in his wake.

Sack Ashton now. Gardening leave, whatever, I don't ******* care, just get him out of that door - pronto.

Get a DOF in. Get a COO appointed.

Sack the coaching staff, move U23/18 coaches up until end of season - prioritise replacements on Pearson remit partially, key positions filled on basis of club retained in case of sack.

Same for Rolls and the entire medical and fitness teams, straight out the door. Our injury numbers, inury diagnosis, rumours, and rushing players back is apex amateur hour and has been for seemingly two years, enough is enough.

Recruitment, let the DoF sort on latters appointment and review of systems (preferably Steve Walsh).

Rid ourselves of the deadwood. Prime candidates being Hunt, Diedhiou, Baker, Adelakun, Lansbury, Marriapa, Watkins, Weimann (more due injury risk and wages), Paterson, Rowe let contracts run down, no new deals.

Sell - Wells, Moore (p/x possible), Walsh (Compensation), Nagy (£3m total). If we feel further cashflow is needed look at selling Bentley (£5m).

Promote - Nurse, Pring, Conway, Bell, Pearson - as cover, dependant on signings. Review remainder sorting loans as feels needed.

Remit recruitment and DoF to target a mix of championship free agents, abroad targets - lack of TV rights having impacted cash flows meaning possible discounted fees, and poaching  league one/two targets, keeping in mind an jnter-club wage ceiling that I feel needs establishing, I.e. 110% of revenue urnover outside of transfer fees received, review on a biannual basis.

 

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6 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry to say it but Pearson is over the hill and washed up

I really was so positive about his appointment and feel he has let himself and all of us down

The team tonight looked uninterested and lost.

Where the .... do we go from here?

We are in a terrible place as a club.

As I have been recently banned I will add my own asterisks Wa***r

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12 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Change is needed, now, from top to bottom. The only part I'd leave in place is Nigel Pearson. The only person looking in with any track record of promotion and PL experience in this club.

Off the pitch? - Massive work needed. Ashton has left a bloated disease ridden husk in his wake.

Sack Ashton now. Gardening leave, whatever, I don't ******* care, just get him out of that door - pronto.

Get a DOF in. Get a COO appointed.

Sack the coaching staff, move U23/18 coaches up until end of season - prioritise replacements on Pearson remit partially, key positions filled on basis of club retained in case of sack.

Same for Rolls and the entire medical and fitness teams, straight out the door. Our injury numbers, inury diagnosis, rumours, and rushing players back is apex amateur hour and has been for seemingly two years, enough is enough.

Recruitment, let the DoF sort on latters appointment and review of systems (preferably Steve Walsh).

Rid ourselves of the deadwood. Prime candidates being Hunt, Diedhiou, Baker, Adelakun, Lansbury, Marriapa, Watkins, Weimann (more due injury risk and wages), Paterson, Rowe let contracts run down, no new deals.

Sell - Wells, Moore (p/x possible), Walsh (Compensation), Nagy (£3m total). If we feel further cashflow is needed look at selling Bentley (£5m).

Promote - Nurse, Pring, Conway, Bell, Pearson - as cover, dependant on signings. Review remainder sorting loans as feels needed.

Remit recruitment and DoF to target a mix of championship free agents, abroad targets - lack of TV rights having impacted cash flows meaning possible discounted fees, and poaching  league one/two targets, keeping in mind an jnter-club wage ceiling that I feel needs establishing, I.e. 110% of revenue urnover outside of transfer fees received, review on a biannual basis.

Or we could just sit on our hands until June so that the owner can be sentimental about Mark Ashton leaving on positive terms, or over optimistic about what direction he'll still bring to us in the next two months.

Seriously though, good summary and plan. A plan of action and the action itself is what is desperately needed and one of our biggest problems is we seem to have none and I think players have latched onto that.

While we sit through this horrific end to a season with a demotivated staff, we still had two unique advantages. One is that we control what happens next, the other is three free months to get ahead of next season.

In the first case we have done nothing decisive - Boro just binned off two players early. This is exactly the sort of galvanizing statement that lets everyone know you have a plan, you are not passive to circumstance, we are executing the plan, are you in or out. We've done nothing top to bottom along these lines and it shows. 

In the second case, using this dead time effectively for next season - while NP sounds like he is forming an opinion, he is not appointed and regardless, where is the process or urgency going to come from to prepare for next season with no DoF and a CEO who is running his notice period down and unavoidably demotivated?

This isn't even a bash Mark Ashton post - yes he's left a mess but as per your post, we need a plan and action right away and it's no longer on him to fix this now. Sitting around until June waiting for his leaving party, or passing the time until you can hold hands with Nigel Pearson in person. It's all just wasted opportunity.

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3 hours ago, Fuber said:

LJ didn't have players whittling contracts down to consider, as Ashton actually did his job selling them on when former was in charge, its only here and now its come to a head.

The latter's last 12 months have been nothing short of a farce.

How can Pearson be blamed where the playing squad, contract issues, staff, and outlying factors remain exacty the same?

Like expecting a new manager bounce when th trampoline is lead-lined.

In fact, Pearson has it worse - the squad had more reason to fight for Dean given he was 'popular'. Nige can only play on their pride, literally the only tool he has. Anyone appointed, in the same position, same problem.

Short Answer:

They don't care.

Off the pitch, things have gone downhill since Keith Dawe resigned.

Ashton's taken credit for his legwork (stadium and training facilities). Jon's designed us a couple of football shirts and gone Awol. Wage spending has gone up 40% in three years since foremost name resigned.

Change is needed, now, from top to bottom. The only part I'd leave in place is Nigel Pearson. The only person looking in with any track record of promotion and PL experience in this club.

Off the pitch? - Massive work needed. Ashton has left a bloated disease ridden husk in his wake.

Sack Ashton now. Gardening leave, whatever, I don't ******* care, just get him out of that door - pronto.

Get a DOF in. Get a COO appointed.

Sack the coaching staff, move U23/18 coaches up until end of season - prioritise replacements on Pearson remit partially, key positions filled on basis of club retained in case of sack.

Same for Rolls and the entire medical and fitness teams, straight out the door. Our injury numbers, inury diagnosis, rumours, and rushing players back is apex amateur hour and has been for seemingly two years, enough is enough.

Recruitment, let the DoF sort on latters appointment and review of systems (preferably Steve Walsh).

Rid ourselves of the deadwood. Prime candidates being Hunt, Diedhiou, Baker, Adelakun, Lansbury, Marriapa, Watkins, Weimann (more due injury risk and wages), Paterson, Rowe let contracts run down, no new deals.

Sell - Wells, Moore (p/x possible), Walsh (Compensation), Nagy (£3m total). If we feel further cashflow is needed look at selling Bentley (£5m).

Promote - Nurse, Pring, Conway, Bell, Pearson - as cover, dependant on signings. Review remainder sorting loans as feels needed.

Remit recruitment and DoF to target a mix of championship free agents, abroad targets - lack of TV rights having impacted cash flows meaning possible discounted fees, and poaching  league one/two targets, keeping in mind an jnter-club wage ceiling that I feel needs establishing, I.e. 110% of revenue urnover outside of transfer fees received, review on a biannual basis.

At last, some common sense. Amen to all this Fuber. 

This. Amen 

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8 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

"MA misfits"  Come on, give that bit of nonsense a rest.

What really?  How come MA managed to get us a team that was so competitive in the top half of this league until Covid struck; when i believe we were 7th and looking liking getting points on every single away trip apart from Baggies and Leeds

And looked like getting nothing at home. This is MA and LJ mess, that unfortunately we are still paying for. While things haven't improved as I'd hope, Pearson isn't the problem. The gutless wasters we have on the books do.

I don't expect you to agree, the world could be coming to an end in the next 24 hours and you'd still try and put a positive spin on it.

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5 hours ago, TomThumb84 said:

For me, a clumsy, lackadaisical centre-forward performance, and the incident you refer to with Wells when Fam just let Wells chase back after Fam’s own poor touch made me apoplectic. What worries me about that incident specifically is that it was allowed to go by unchecked. Kalas, Lansbury, even Nagy or Rowe should have been at him after that. Speaks volumes.

The fact that he will not be here next season is (mostly) the clubs fault, the fact that he cannot apply himself whilst still here is his fault. The fact he is still getting picked is baffling.

Anyone who knows football will find his current output at best frustrating and at worst negligent.

For what its worth, for me, even if he had signed a bumper 3 year deal, his current level of performance does not warrant a place.

Lets not forget that this was the clubs record signing, ambling towards the exit with zero recompense for our club, because we have catastrophically mismanaged the whole thing.

A complete mess and leaves a sour taste for all.

Agree with all you say, what is really getting my goat though is Fam's "performance" last night was no different than for every game he has started since M'Boro. NP keeps talking about players needing to show a collective responsibility BUT keeps picking the worst example of not showing that!  How are other players meant to build and show respect and commitment for NP when he doesn't practice what he preaches?

I was mega positive about NP when he arrived, frankly now I'm not bothered if SL does decide to bring in Robins instead.

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