Why Pearson?

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Personally I would give the job to Pearson but at the same time do get the argument that results don’t justify it.

I would just say though that he isn’t unique, have a look at Paul Cook’s record since he took over Ipswich in similar circumstances.

Many wanted Cook, possibly more than wanted Pearson, but if you take over a side on the slide post transfer window & in our case with loads of players left in limbo, whoever you are, it is tough.

All this proves though is that too many footballers really have nothing, zilch, zero between those ears of theirs. Them and their Agents must have this notion that "nothing will change"..........well you try telling Chairman at clubs like Rochdale, Crawley, Carlisle and the like that nothing is changing and that they will remain more than happy to hoover up failing players at Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Bristol City and the like on half decent wages. It really isn't happening and when the cloth is finally cut a number of these players are going to be gobsmacked when they are either out of work or being offered £1K per week. It really isn't far off happening.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

14 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Reckon the Repair Shop could 

Yes, but would they want to?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

 

Your expectation seems to have been for NP to transform an obnoxiously indifferent squad into a winning machine in double quick time merely by his presence.

Show me any post I have written that gives that impression or makes that statement. 

What is the problem with having an opinion of being underwhelmed and not bothered whether he stays or goes? It's an opinion and I've clearly stated he could be right long term.

Going back to my first post when I questioned NP's progress- I made it very clear that I felt that if people think that Pearson is the solution to our problem then they're deluded. The problem at City are way way deeper than " an obnoxious" set of players and a change of Manager in itself is an irrelevance without massive changes elsewhere.

 

1 hour ago, Red_Alligator said:

Game, set and match to you Nogbad.

Ah- it's a competition- sorry didn't realise.

 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

All this proves though is that too many footballers really have nothing, zilch, zero between those ears of theirs. Them and their Agents must have this notion that "nothing will change"..........well you try telling Chairman at clubs like Rochdale, Crawley, Carlisle and the like that nothing is changing and that they will remain more than happy to hoover up failing players at Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Bristol City and the like on half decent wages. It really isn't happening and when the cloth is finally cut a number of these players are going to be gobsmacked when they are either out of work or being offered £1K per week. It really isn't far off happening.

Sooner the better, overpaid prima donna's!

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, big dosser said:

 

what i cant understand is that squad was quality against boro and swansea and since then have down tools

A quick first impression for the new boss, then revert to type (in the main) over a series of games taking it easy in the process, whilst the new boss tries to work out your psyche.

[Jeez]

40 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I don't doubt that he did think that MA would be a safe pair of hands. But I'd suggest that a brief glance at the pages of OTIB would have raised a few questions. It's not as though Mark Ashton's appointment hasn't been questioned almost from the start. OTIB may be a tad frivolous at times but many on here know a thing about football and about what goes on behind the scenes at City, and a good number of us have considerable managerial experience and a highly attuned BS detector! 

The appointments of Ashton and Johnson were risky. That was pointed out at the time. Steve chose to look the other way.

I have no confidence in his ability to do better next time.

The game is full of sharks & chancers - any appointment is a risky one.

[Toblerone boot]

3 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So NP has managed around 400 games and last tasted success in 2015 with Leicester.

Holden has managed around 40 games and across this small section did ok until the wheels came off in his final 7 games.

I'm not sure that looking at their achievements given one has managed 10 times as many games is a good comparison.

Take all your points about np Holden etc but who do you think should take over as manager?

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

A quick first impression for the new boss, then revert to type (in the main) over a series of games taking it easy in the process, whilst the new boss tries to work out your psyche.

That’s easy - lily livered, lazy, big time Charlie’s with no self motivation, lacking responsibility and a losers mentality!!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s easy - lily livered, lazy, big time Charlie’s with no self motivation, lacking responsibility and a losers mentality!!

It’s like the supply teacher is in.  You behave day 1, but you know they don’t have the clout to suspend you /give you a detention, so you play up.  Resolved by giving supply teacher the job and allowing them to enforce the school rules.

[Top Robin]

45 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Why Pearson?

He's got a team promoted before from this division. That's one of the key criteria many of us asked for last summer.

This was never going to be a quick fix, he's had his time to assess the squad and will already know which one's he's interested in building a team around. 

It's not been great since he's joined, but there are a few factors which haven't helped him.

You have players nearing the end of their contracts, do they want to risk injury & not getting a new club in the summer? 

We have a huge injury list, this has meant we've had to frequently fill our bench with players yet to play in the Football League, let alone the Championship. Many of them just aren't ready yet. 

He's on a short term contract. Will those that are still under contract past this summer put a bit more effort in if they know he's also here with them. It's a bit like having a supply teacher when you were in school, you **** about & don't listen to them because you only think it's short term. 

He's surrounded by staff that aren't his, how many managers are successful that don't get to bring in their own? 

Neil Warnock

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It depends on your expectations.

Mine were simply that he'd get the points to keep us up, something that looked unlikely under Holden.

Job done. His next task is to brutally dismantle the odious elements of this squad and assemble a new team with character we'll be proud to get behind next season.

A task he seems eminently suitable for.

Your expectation seems to have been for NP to transform an obnoxiously indifferent squad into a winning machine in double quick time merely by his presence.

Out of curiosity, what do you see as the ‘odious elements of this squad?  I’ve seen some shambolic performances, but I’ve neither seen nor heard about any behaviour that would qualify as odious.  Are you suggesting that there’s a deliberately destructive force at work within the club?  If so, name names.

My expectation was for Pearson to show leadership and inspire more committed performances on the field, improving the results that we were getting in Holden’s last couple of months and taking us into the top half of the division.  Job very much not done as far as I’m concerned.

[steviestevieneville]

I bloody hate this current squad barring one or two . Absolute frauds , not just as footballers but as men. For all the sucking of Lansdown’s cock for the shiny new buildings . He, Ashton, Johnson, and the rest of the coaching staff have presided over a squad full of ******* cowards . 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Out of curiosity, what do you see as the ‘odious elements of this squad?  I’ve seen some shambolic performances, but I’ve neither seen nor heard about any behaviour that would qualify as odious.  Are you suggesting that there’s a deliberately destructive force at work within the club?  If so, name names.

My expectation was for Pearson to show leadership and inspire more committed performances on the field, improving the results that we were getting in Holden’s last couple of months and taking us into the top half of the division.  Job very much not done as far as I’m concerned.

So if it isn’t to be Pearson who would you suggest that is a realistic target who won’t wait and see whether a better offer pops up and can arrive in time to both identify the player and staff issues we have and recruit replacements before other clubs get hold of them?

[Red Exile]

18 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

The game is full of sharks & chancers - any appointment is a risky one.

Maybe, but he's got all the money in the world, hire the proven best, something he's not been very good at that when it comes to City.

[AshtonYate]

I feel for the guy as he has most of the team out injured and so many OOC players.  If you were a player and you knew that you weren't being offered a contract, why would you risk injury? You simply wouldn't.  You won't take that risk as you need another contract for you and your family, and you aren't going to get the best deal possible if you tear your ACL or rip your hamstring. 

I really do think its as simple as that.  

If you think about who are best players are at the moment, they are the ones who all currently have a contract and need to impress for next season.  

[Rossi the Robin]

4 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So NP has managed around 400 games and last tasted success in 2015 with Leicester.

Holden has managed around 40 games and across this small section did ok until the wheels came off in his final 7 games.

I'm not sure that looking at their achievements given one has managed 10 times as many games is a good comparison.

He managed 400 games for a reason? 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

I feel for the guy as he has most of the team out injured and so many OOC players.  If you were a player and you knew that you weren't being offered a contract, why would you risk injury? You simply wouldn't.  You won't take that risk as you need another contract for you and your family, and you aren't going to get the best deal possible if you tear your ACL or rip your hamstring. 

I really do think its as simple as that.  

If you think about who are best players are at the moment, they are the ones who all currently have a contract and need to impress for next season.  

In which case, the team for Luton is:

Bentley

Vyner Moore (if fit) Kalas Towler

Bakinson Nagy Massengo Palmer

Semenyo Wells

If Moore isn’t fit, then I’m breaking the rules to allow Sessegnon in as a loanee.

Then again you look at that team and wonder if Nagy would get picked, ditto Palmer by NP....so perhaps Janneh, Conway or Scott come in.

[Carey 6]

14 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Neil Warnock

Really? 

Just spent 5 mins having a look and over the past 30 years when he has had success he always hired one of Blackwell or Jones as his assistant.

Notts Co - Mick Jones
Huddersfield - Mick Jones
Plymouth - Mick Jones
Sheff U - Blackwell & Jones
QPR - Jones
Rotherham - Blackwell
Cardiff - Blackwell

[Numero Uno]

38 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I understand what you are saying, but you could put Klopp in there and with OOC players, injuries etc etc, it would not change much, the players available, and the motivation of the vast number is sub zero. I personally do not think many place Holden as responsible, far from it in fact. It is the result of the mess Ashton and LJ created that is the issue. Holden was never going to solve that in his first job, and NP, or really anyone, would have a terrible time getting that group to perform. Maybe NP is not the right man, but take anyone you like, and the reality is they would be looking at only Kalas and Bentley as first team starters (of those available today) . The situation we are in was created over a number of seasons, and to turn around that mess is a tough ask. If not NP then who would you suggest to turn the ship around ? We only have 2 weeks and we are without coach, ceo, recruitment head, and 14 players. I do agree with others, that NP (or any coach) alone is not enough. There is a need for a major upgrade in recruitment, coaching and conditioning coaches. 

Spot on. The short termism of much of their "Golf Club Recruitment Policy" has finally caught up with us as it was always going to.

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s easy - lily livered, lazy, big time Charlie’s with no self motivation, lacking responsibility and a losers mentality!!

Players do not start that way. To become a professional it takes very very high degrees of motivation and a growth mindset. To become a professional requires sacrifice most of us are not prepared to endure. 

A question is why the motivation, the responsibility, the fighters mindset gets lost in players within clubs. 

At Bristol City the club under Johnson went through change which normally will not support players to be at their best, standards were questionable, this continued under Holden (its change) and under Mr Pearson a supposed tough disciplinarian he picks players, he rewards players for poor performance and poor attitude with starting places in his XI.

Responsibility starts with outlining expectation, the bigger picture, the fundamental keystone behaviours, Mr Pearson plays and rewards the shit attitudes, the lazy ... Its an ever lowering bar and dropping standards. A choice this Manager is making. 

 

[Floatn Over]

Apologies if it’s been discussed before (not of course ITK) but could the appointment of NP be an element of the “additional investment” package ?

It would not bother me as I’m definitely “NP in” but just speculating.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Players do not start that way. To become a professional it takes very very high degrees of motivation and a growth mindset. To become a professional requires sacrifice most of us are not prepared to endure. 

A question is why the motivation, the responsibility, the fighters mindset gets lost in players within clubs. 

At Bristol City the club under Johnson went through change which normally will not support players to be at their best, standards were questionable, this continued under Holden (its change) and under Mr Pearson a supposed tough disciplinarian he picks players, he rewards players for poor performance and poor attitude with starting places in its XI.

Responsibility starts with outlining expectation, the bigger picture, the fundamental keystone behaviours, Mr Pearson plays and rewards the shit attitudes, the lazy ... Its an ever lowering bar and dropping standards. A choice this Manager is making. 

 

You aren't teaching me anything with your first statement, that's a given.

However, once players earn their SECOND contract and are on the football merry go round and then establish themselves on third and fourth contracts and find their ultimate level it starts to become a job, a way of life to them. It's similar to other workplaces and despite all the hard work to get to that point it doesn't take much to start taking your life and your job for granted.

I agree that Pearson is rewarding failure by picking Fam and Wells but whilst it seems obvious to us I'm sure NP could explain himself very eloquently to you on why he is picking them at present. One thing is for sure, it certainly doesn't help having such a limited group to pick from in terms of both availability, experience and ability. If we were mathematically safe by Saturday teatime and he persists in picking Fam in particular then I would start to question what the hell is going on.

[GrahamC]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In which case, the team for Luton is:

Bentley

Vyner Moore (if fit) Kalas Towler

Bakinson Nagy Massengo Palmer

Semenyo Wells

If Moore isn’t fit, then I’m breaking the rules to allow Sessegnon in as a loanee.

Then again you look at that team and wonder if Nagy would get picked, ditto Palmer by NP....so perhaps Janneh, Conway or Scott come in.

Have a feeling Palmer is on thin ice now & that Wells would only play if Pearson felt he had to play a senior striker.

Personally I’d start Janneh over him, with Conway & Britton on the bench.

He clearly sees Vyner as a CB, though if Simpson isn’t fit then I have absolutely no idea who plays there, Sessegnon was truly dreadful last night & Hunt is obviously leaving.

[Superjack]

[Roger Red Hat]

16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Sessegnon was truly dreadful last night & Hunt is obviously leaving.

So is Sessegnon!

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

You aren't teaching me anything with your first statement, that's a given.

However, once players earn their SECOND contract and are on the football merry go round and then establish themselves on third and fourth contracts and find their ultimate level it starts to become a job, a way of life to them. It's similar to other workplaces and despite all the hard work to get to that point it doesn't take much to start taking your life and your job for granted.

I agree that Pearson is rewarding failure by picking Fam and Wells but whilst it seems obvious to us I'm sure NP could explain himself very eloquently to you on why he is picking them at present. One thing is for sure, it certainly doesn't help having such a limited group to pick from in terms of both availability, experience and ability. If we were mathematically safe by Saturday teatime and he persists in picking Fam in particular then I would start to question what the hell is going on.

Some players not all. Its up to Managers and coaches to support their players and keep instilling that me and us mentality. Mr Pearson doesn't reward failure, he rewards poor behaviour. 

The team underperforms. Mr Pearson responds by selecting players with poor attitudes. The same players reaction on the pitch is poor. The team underperforms. Mr Pearson responds by repeating the same predictable cycle.

Where is his standard? What is the non negotiable? Where are his values? You can be shit, put in 50% but hey ho you will still get to play. Some tough disciplinarian he is.

People slag the players but here is poor performance, poor reaction, poor attitude being put on the park by the Manager. The psychology behind this is ludicrous. 

 

 

 

 

[Roger Red Hat]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Where is his standard

In the next transfer window.

[GrahamC]

Just now, Roger Red Hat said:

So is Sessegnon!

I know, I just thought he picked him last night because Hunt has been so poor & Simpson isn’t fit & got rewarded by a dismal display.

Far too weak for their first goal, one awful pass that set them on the attack & pitiful defending forcing Bentley into a great save just before their winner.

If Simpson isn’t fit we don’t have anyone we can trust at RB.

[Northern Red]

3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Regardless of whether Pearson is the right man or not, the last sentence of that is spot on and I'm amazed at the number of people who can't grasp it.

It literally takes no more than a couple of defeats for people to start screaming for the manager to be changed and for various players to never appear again. It's a completely unrealistic way to run a football club yet it happens constantly, not just our fans either.

[ExiledAjax]

16 hours ago, tin said:

Holden was out of his depth and so it proved. @ExiledAjaxhas already compared DH and NP in terms of the last 10 or 11 games and NP came out on top in most elements. I think he should get a chance, yes, because the players are the big problem. 

These players have seen off LJ, Holden and are now undermining Pearson, all in the space of a year. If you want to defend them, be my guest but you’re barking up the wrong tree IMO.

I've read that post back and it's useless. I wrote it in the heat of the moment and compared 10 games to 11 without giving a per/game rating. Stupid and skewing the stats. I've gone back and looked at Holden's last 11 games against Pearson's. Unfortunately for Dean that 11th game was a pretty deserved 1-0 loss to PNE, so it hardly helps him. Red shade shows the better figure. I've also quantified the % change - if you're Nigel Pearson then for attacking stats you want a positive number and for defensive a negative is good.

Essentially, because that PNE loss makes most of Holden's stats worse, my conclusion is actually broadly similar: Pearson has actually managed to get ever so slightly more out of the same players, despite the season winding down to nothing and despite the turbulence in the boardroom.

However, notwithstanding the improvements in raw totals, most interesting to me is that DH wins in both xG columns, but loses out to NP in every other metric (although total shots against is so marginal as to effectively be a tie). It suggests, to me, and I know many would disagree, that had we retained Holden until the end of the season we would have likely gained roughly the same number of points we have since we sacked him. We would not have been relegated.

Now of course there are many variables (injuries, strength of opponent etc) that can be used to say why that isn't true, and I am not saying that sacking Holden was the "wrong" decision*, but to me it's clear that Pearson has made only the most marginal of improvements in terms of final output. However, he is here now, and we have not regressed under his short tenure. With a window, some backing, pre-seasons and maybe some of his own backroom staff...well maybe we could get a top half or even top ten finish in 2021/22.

*the wrong decision was his appointment.