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Embarrassed by this squad of players


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6 minutes ago, Superjack said:

By playing stifling, negative, backs-to the-wall football.

Technically, you could say the same about Holden, and we all know where that was headed.

The team is far more attacking and entertaining under Pearson. We keep losing because the players aren't good enough.

To an extent I agree with you Jack. In the end the reason I lost faith in Johnson was because I did not feel he wanted to impress his (our) own style of play. You don’t get promotion by setting yourself up to beat each opponent you get promotion by playing your own style of play well enough to beat all comers (well most). We need a manager who is clear enough in his own mind about how he wants to play and sticks to it. 
My point was that some of our players will fit that plan, others will not. To dismiss them all as ‘no good’ might make people feel good after a bad run of results but is unhelpful. 

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At the start of something good there’s usually some shit to wade through first. I’m sick to death of voicing my opinions on most of these players, a lot of them are a disgrace to the shirt. All I can say is thank duck so many of these wasters are soon OOC. The others can go on the transfer list. 

I hope the silver lining is that we’re safe and we have a manager who’s not only a proven leader but knows the problems with this squad before the transfer window reopens. He knows who needs to go, probably has his targets in mind and he needs backing and patience to get to work on turning this sinking ship around.

I’ve got no doubt we’ll be in serious shit next season if, for whatever reason, NP walks away and the new man has to assess this lot from scratch. Time is really of the essence and it’s not beyond the realms to envisage a situation where a lot of these wasters blag new deals and continue to underperform if that scenario unfolds. 

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1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

But who appointed Ashton and Johnson. The ultimate responsibility   for this mess lies with Steve Lansdown. As much credit  that he must take for the training ground and Ashton Gate and financial support, his selection of those to lead and run our club is a disaster- Jon Lansdown, Ashton, Johnson all down to him.

SL appointed staff to oversee the day to day running of AG - Ashton and as far as SL is concerned MA has been doing a good job and is disappointed that he’s moving on. 

It’s us fans who tend to criticise Ashton, largely down to his attitude towards us fans.

As for appointing managers, everyone knows it’s always a gamble and clubs get it wrong all the time. However with LJ Lansdown gave him tremendous support in an attempt to reach the PL - 4 or 5 seasons iirc and LJ failed to deliver and all the while never really winning the fans over.

The error that SL made was allowing Ashton and Invisible Jon to recruit the next manager and after bloody weeks they appointed a managerially inexperienced guy in Deano............:dunno: and when he got sacked SL appointed Nige within 72 hours.

Personally I don’t see SL as at fault at all but like all employers he’s appointed people in good faith but it just hasn't worked out on the managerial front - yet..............:cool2:

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2 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

I have never felt such contempt and utter embarrassment for this pathetic squad of players, apart from the youngsters I could not care less if they were all released or sold. 

There was a moment in the 2nd half where Conway was trying to gee up his team members, they should be embarrassed that a youth player making his debut is trying to motivate his senior counterparts. Pathetic all of them!

This 100%.  

What makes it worse to me is that I don't think they do care. They carry on getting their ridiculous wages (despite their performaces) and there are no consequences - they already know they're leaving so why bother anymore.

The should be ashamed but they're not. They won't care at all.

The sooner they've all ****** off the better. I have no sympathy with how hard some of them will struggle to find their next club on the wages they'll demand.  Time for them to get in the real world. Tits.

 

Edited by Loco Rojo
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I still think the biggest problem is the balance. And injuries really not helped. 

Starting in goal, Bentley. A fantastic shot stopper and ball playing goalkeeper. Not at all dominant on crosses.

If we had a dominant pair in front of him and an outfield team of players that can cope well with set piece balls into our box, then Bentley's weaknesses might not be exposed like they are.

The centre back pairing, whichever pair we have picked from Kalas, Vyner, Mariappa and Moore, none of them are a commanding partnership with balls into our box. Not being helped by a weak goalkeeper behind them means the centre backs are not helped like they could be if they had a Tim Krul type coming and claiming balls that Bentley does not come for.

Also the amount of balls coming into our box is not ideal for the centre back pair and goalkeeper. We don't have a defence that are comfortable with balls coming in, so it would be best if we didn't have balls coming in so often.

So being a low percentage possession side does not help. The centre back pair we have would suit a team playing on the front foot, as they are very mobile, but not suited to that 2nd half defending deep for long periods.

I think a big part of this is not having a ball winner in the midfield. Lansbury and Bakinson had really good first half performances. But hopefully Joe Williams coming into the side next season gives us the energy, aggression as well as the ball playing/passing ability in there to help stop us from being so dominated like we were.

I always think back to when we had Pack in there with no Korey, it really showed. I'm hoping Williams will be the answer to what we miss in there next season.

Let's say Bakinson stays in the side next season in today's 442 for example, then ideally we'd want Joe Williams alongside him. 

Massengo is probably the closest thing we have to that type who is available, but was more advanced/wide so not playing that role.

But I don't think he's the answer to do that role either at the moment, although he could be in the future. I actually would have moved Vyner into midfield when it looked like Bakinson and Lansbury were struggling, bringing Lansbury off for Baker to go alongside Kalas.

Another problem we had in that 2nd half was going forward, not giving them enough to worry about. Rowe offers nothing down the left except that one run off the ball before crossing first half. We have had no real threat down our left for so long.

We can do a lot better when the likes of Dasilva and Williams are back. Weimann and O'Dowda too could really suit today's system with their mobility, energy and ability to press.

So our centre back pair were certainly not helped 2nd half. But I think we need to improve in that area. Vyner not yet physically strong enough for me at centre back, and Kalas can full asleep at times.

Not good for someone who cost 8 million and on massive wages. He's a spectacular defender most games in his blocks, how quick he can be and how high he jumps to win headers. But like with goalkeepers, not making silly errors is the most important thing for a centre back, which he can do maybe a bit too often.

But it's all about partnerships. And we saw how good he was alongside a real top quality centre back in Webster. Maybe a better centre back alongside him and in a better team overall and we will see the Kalas of 2 seasons ago.

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1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Nevermind the squad. We haven't looked convincing or well coached all of the prior season also, and the season before that. 

Major review is needed of all non-playing staff. Only area doing arguably well is the academy. 

That is arguably due to the fact that the academy was completely reformed a few years back. Hopefully the rest of the football operations can be reset in the same way.  Needs to be done by people with football expertise though. I'm not sure I trust SL to sanction it though as it will mean admitting that the whole current model (recruitment, training, medical,) is broken

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5 hours ago, Im_over_ere said:

So I could only listen to the game on radio, not watched it. What my concern is, did the players just perform crap in the second half or did NP get out coached at half time? Maybe the Luton boss seen our weaknesses and exploited them in the second half and the players and coaches didn't do enough to react to Lutons changes?

Luton definitely changed things, going more 433 than 4231, Adebayo drifted into a slightly left sided forward but between Sessegnon and Vyner, Collins on centrally but running off of Kalas, Cornick between Kalas and Rowe....whilst launching long throws.  I thought we weathered the first minutes, but there was a worrying point where Bree drove a ball into Collins in the box from deep, and Kalas was 5 yards away, nowhere near him.  We’d basically gone deep, and couldn’t find a way to get up the pitch.

This meant back 4 no longer in touch with midfield and midfield no longer in touch with attack.  Luton started to play around and through us, using the space.  We weren’t brave enough to play a higher line and get control back.  We start defending balls in our box, rather than 40 yards from goal.  The midfield end up doing doggies chasing the ball.

The third goal typified it. Crappy shot from 25 yards, Scott trying to close it down....think he took a bit of pace off i?  But we are defending 8 yards out.  Why?

So not necessarily outcoached, more dwindling confidence as we took on more pressure by being deeper.

When we did play we looked like creating....so much more positive than previous games.

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

SL appointed staff to oversee the day to day running of AG - Ashton and as far as SL is concerned MA has been doing a good job and is disappointed that he’s moving on. 

It’s us fans who tend to criticise Ashton, largely down to his attitude towards us fans.

As for appointing managers, everyone knows it’s always a gamble and clubs get it wrong all the time. However with LJ Lansdown gave him tremendous support in an attempt to reach the PL - 4 or 5 seasons iirc and LJ failed to deliver and all the while never really winning the fans over.

The error that SL made was allowing Ashton and Invisible Jon to recruit the next manager and after bloody weeks they appointed a managerially inexperienced guy in Deano............:dunno: and when he got sacked SL appointed Nige within 72 hours.

Personally I don’t see SL as at fault at all but like all employers he’s appointed people in good faith but it just hasn't worked out on the managerial front - yet..............:cool2:

Absolutely nothing to do with that.....I criticise him for his poor financial performance, resulting from poor recruitment and poor re-contracting strategy, which has intimately meant the downward turn over the last 18 months.

He’s a busted flush, eventually a football club are gonna see through him.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Absolutely nothing to do with that.....I criticise him for his poor financial performance, resulting from poor recruitment and poor re-contracting strategy, which has intimately meant the downward turn over the last 18 months.

He’s a busted flush, eventually a football club are gonna see through him.

You forgot his poor medical staff recruitment as well Dave 🥵

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32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Absolutely nothing to do with that.....I criticise him for his poor financial performance, resulting from poor recruitment and poor re-contracting strategy, which has intimately meant the downward turn over the last 18 months.

He’s a busted flush, eventually a football club are gonna see through him.

SL thinks he’s been great.......hinted as much when Ashtons departure was announced. I guess SL isn’t going to dis the man he employed to run AG.

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15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL thinks he’s been great.......hinted as much when Ashtons departure was announced. I guess SL isn’t going to dis the man he employed to run AG.

Yes, but your point was that we criticise him because of his attitude towards us.  Nothing could be further from from the truth.

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6 hours ago, Capman said:

That’s an interesting assessment, although it does not go well with the fact that Johnson had the club in the top half of the division completing to get in the playoffs when he left. 
 

 

We were hardly 'competing' to get in the playoffs when he left.

That season we were third from bottom in the shots pg/ shots OT pg table. 

This season we are bottom with the poorest stats by a country mile going back to 2012/13 (there aren't any records before then!!!!!), so hardly a glowing assessment of Johnson/Holden ball.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, but your point was that we criticise him because of his attitude towards us.  Nothing could be further from from the truth.

We’ll have to agree to disagree then Dave. 

I well remember Ashton increasing the SC prices significantly without any consultation with the Supports Trust and Club. That caused considerable upset until the SC&T got involved and eventually Ashton was ‘persuaded’ to think again and reduced his original price hike.

It was also well known that Ashton was a hard headed individual with little regard for the views of the fans. It was as if we were of no consequence. One SC&T committee member described him as arrogant.

 

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1 minute ago, Robbored said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree then Dave. 

I well remember Ashton increasing the SC prices significantly without any consultation with the Supports Trust and Club. That caused considerable upset until the SC&T got involved and eventually Ashton was ‘persuaded’ to think again and reduced his original price hike.

It was also well known that Ashton was a hard headed individual with little regard for the views of the fans. It was as if we were of no consequence. One SC&T committee member described him as arrogant.

 

Sorry, I was unclear, I meant my view on him.....yes, I think a lot of fans would agree with what you say.  

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8 hours ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

We were hardly 'competing' to get in the playoffs when he left.

That season we were third from bottom in the shots pg/ shots OT pg table. 

This season we are bottom with the poorest stats by a country mile going back to 2012/13 (there aren't any records before then!!!!!), so hardly a glowing assessment of Johnson/Holden ball.

So many people missing the blatant EVIDENCE, not opinion, that our current malaise has been a couple of seasons coming and came up with this ridiculous view that we had a "Top 6" squad. The wheels have been loosening for a long time before finally coming off this season.

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22 hours ago, Robbored said:

This run of poor form is down to the errors in recruitment made by Ashton and LJ over a 4 year period. Deano inherited them and now Nige has picked up the same sorry bunch and not even a guy with his experience has been able to turn things around.

What Nige has down has highlighted the many weaknesses that the squad has accrued over the recent years. Poor management and poor coaching have led us to the sorry state we are in.

Some posters point out that since Nige took over that nothing much has changed in terms of results but I’m not pointing the finger at Nige as the cause. That lies completely with LJ and MA.

I reckon that if Nige gets appointed then he’ll have a summer of thinning the squad and recruitment plus  a full preseason to implement his methods and I really think that he’ll do a decent job. I’m not sure why but I has a strong feeling that Nige is the right guy.

I think this hits the nail on the head. These problems are not new. They are a product of our recruitment over 3/4 seasons. The side has got progressively worse and you dont need to be Pep Guardiola to see it. Selling our better players is fine if they are replaced with comparable quality. They have not been, simple.

LJ spoke about having a bag of golf clubs for different occasions, well with this lot you wanna give up the game and play tennis.... Absolute farce. The good news is that Ashton is as good as gone and we can dismantle his work quite easily. We also have lots of players out of contract so they can be released which gives the new manager plenty to work with. The spine of the team needs to be rebuilt. Of those we can sell time to move Palmer and Nagy on.  The issue is really whether the owner can get a grip of the situation and act decisively to give the manager time to rebuild. 

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8 minutes ago, TheJudge07 said:

I think this hits the nail on the head. These problems are not new. They are a product of our recruitment over 3/4 seasons. The side has got progressively worse and you dont need to be Pep Guardiola to see it. Selling our better players is fine if they are replaced with comparable quality. They have not been, simple.

LJ spoke about having a bag of golf clubs for different occasions, well with this lot you wanna give up the game and play tennis.... Absolute farce. The good news is that Ashton is as good as gone and we can dismantle his work quite easily. We also have lots of players out of contract so they can be released which gives the new manager plenty to work with. The spine of the team needs to be rebuilt. Of those we can sell time to move Palmer and Nagy on.  The issue is really whether the owner can get a grip of the situation and act decisively to give the manager time to rebuild. 

Bang on. 

Webster, Brownhill, Bryan, Reid, Pack, Smith - all gone and replaced with worse players. 

Even Flint. For his downfalls we would kill for someone like him right now in both boxes.  

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Was hoping Kasey Palmer was coming good under NP but was an unused sub yesterday. Is he struggling with an injury or something? Other wise it seems NP is another manager for whatever reasons doesn't rate/trust him. 

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1 minute ago, MATT BCFC said:

Was hoping Kasey Palmer was coming good under NP but was an unused sub yesterday. Is he struggling with an injury or something? Other wise it seems NP is another manager for whatever reasons doesn't rate/trust him. 

3 goals and 2 assists in 33 starts this season probably tells them all they need to know!

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50 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Bang on. 

Webster, Brownhill, Bryan, Reid, Pack, Smith - all gone and replaced with worse players. 

Even Flint. For his downfalls we would kill for someone like him right now in both boxes.  

I remember mentioning the very fact that selling our better players was not necessarily a good thing to do even if it meant money in the coffers and we are partly seeing the cost of that policy thru this season’s disappointing showing 

At the time it was pointed out to me that virtually all Championship clubs have to the same and Brentford were used as an example - the difference being being that the Bees replaced their players with others of similar quality. For example they sold Watkins and signed Toney, the very same Toney that City were in for but failed to reach the asking price.................:cool2:

Now were Ashtons hands tied in how much he could offer bynSL giving him a budgetary cap?

Anyway....it doesn’t matter now but it is one example of City missing out on a quality player and the Bees a beneficiary.

 

 

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On 25/04/2021 at 15:54, numbeast said:

I don't question their abilities and they should be good enough to at least challenge for the top 6. The problem is they lack application.

We have 2 current internationals in Nagy and Kalas who, I believe are underperforming by about 70%, totally unacceptable. The experience brought in under Holden appear to be happy picking up their money every week without doing the job they were brought in to do.

My one concern from a club perspective is our underachievement down to contract uncertainty? With so many out of contract at the end of the season and the club not willing to enter into discussions with most of these players until the season ends does that give them incentive enough to give 100%. You could say that they are playing for a new contract but maybe with the uncertainty they've instructed their agents to find them other clubs.

I agree wholeheartedly with the O.P. the performances are embarrassing and I'd like to add the words disgraceful and unprofessional. I'll be glad when this season finally ends and the uncertainty of the managers post is resolved. I hope Pearson or whoever is appointed sorts out the wheat from the chaff. I know loyalty in football is a thing of the past when it comes to moving clubs but I'd hope they can show committed performances whilst they are here.

Good luck securing contracts elsewhere if they've had scouts watching any of them recently.  You'd think if they're off they'd use the opportunity to put themselves in the shop window....

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19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Luton definitely changed things, going more 433 than 4231, Adebayo drifted into a slightly left sided forward but between Sessegnon and Vyner, Collins on centrally but running off of Kalas, Cornick between Kalas and Rowe....whilst launching long throws.  I thought we weathered the first minutes, but there was a worrying point where Bree drove a ball into Collins in the box from deep, and Kalas was 5 yards away, nowhere near him.  We’d basically gone deep, and couldn’t find a way to get up the pitch.

This meant back 4 no longer in touch with midfield and midfield no longer in touch with attack.  Luton started to play around and through us, using the space.  We weren’t brave enough to play a higher line and get control back.  We start defending balls in our box, rather than 40 yards from goal.  The midfield end up doing doggies chasing the ball.

The third goal typified it. Crappy shot from 25 yards, Scott trying to close it down....think he took a bit of pace off i?  But we are defending 8 yards out.  Why?

So not necessarily outcoached, more dwindling confidence as we took on more pressure by being deeper.

When we did play we looked like creating....so much more positive than previous games.

This is a great analysis and a great assessment. But then to continue with my original thoughts, if you can see this was happening, I hope that NP could also see what was happening and would make in game changes. Is it as simple as that or do you think it really is that the players lack so much confidence or an on pitch leader who is directing the team to push higher? Is it the team, NP, the lack of a leader or all of the above?

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On 25/04/2021 at 15:29, Im_over_ere said:

So I could only listen to the game on radio, not watched it. What my concern is, did the players just perform crap in the second half or did NP get out coached at half time? Maybe the Luton boss seen our weaknesses and exploited them in the second half and the players and coaches didn't do enough to react to Lutons changes?

Hard to coach when your team gets ruffed up so easily

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2 hours ago, TheJudge07 said:

I think this hits the nail on the head. These problems are not new. They are a product of our recruitment over 3/4 seasons. The side has got progressively worse and you dont need to be Pep Guardiola to see it. Selling our better players is fine if they are replaced with comparable quality. They have not been, simple.

LJ spoke about having a bag of golf clubs for different occasions, well with this lot you wanna give up the game and play tennis.... Absolute farce. The good news is that Ashton is as good as gone and we can dismantle his work quite easily. We also have lots of players out of contract so they can be released which gives the new manager plenty to work with. The spine of the team needs to be rebuilt. Of those we can sell time to move Palmer and Nagy on.  The issue is really whether the owner can get a grip of the situation and act decisively to give the manager time to rebuild. 

Allegedly being sidelined.  Looks like SL has done the right thing.  Such a conflict of interest otherwise.

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8 minutes ago, Im_over_ere said:

This is a great analysis and a great assessment. But then to continue with my original thoughts, if you can see this was happening, I hope that NP could also see what was happening and would make in game changes. Is it as simple as that or do you think it really is that the players lack so much confidence or an on pitch leader who is directing the team to push higher? Is it the team, NP, the lack of a leader or all of the above?

It seems easy, get up the pitch, condense the play, press the passer....but for some reason, confidence (lack of) makes you go deeper and deeper, it’s a vicious circle.  No idea why.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

It seems easy, get up the pitch, condense the play, press the passer....but for some reason, confidence (lack of) makes you go deeper and deeper, it’s a vicious circle.  No idea why.

That’s where leaders come in, players who will demand that you do what your mind is telling you not to.

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