Piercy article in the Post

[spudski]

4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I have made posts about that approach. City allow the ball into the box. Its not fundamentally flawed if the what happens next is rehearsed. Depth v cross and who will control what should be a quick decision. The defending of the ball into the box lacks conviction. Its not proactive. Error and indecision is common.

Imo, it's a ridiculous approach.

Why allow a ball into the box, rather than stop it.

There are so many advantages for the opposition. A foul is a penalty, a handball is a penalty, closer to goal, easier to score...the list goes on. It's a retarded plan.

[McNasty Filth]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I like James Piercy’s pieces. He’s done some decent ones of late. Seems like a switched on journo. Good for him. 
 

In the wider discussion, again, what we have here is something entirely, and I mean, absolute entirely of Steve’s own making. 
He put too much faith and control in 1 person, Ashton. Now he’s fleeing the scene of his crimes, Steve is left holding a lemon. 
My assumption would be that, given the Ashton to Ipswich rumours were known on here in January, they surely would have been known to Steve (likely earlier if Ashton was up front with Steve about the interest in him). 
At that point in time, Steve should have put in place the search for the new CEO or new DOF or whatever structure he wants in place. Failure to do so is incompetence. 
Again, we are now weeks, nay months down the line and Steve has so far, (to the best of our knowledge) made zero inroads into putting a team together. 

My understanding of the Pearson situation is that Steve is stuck. Both financially and mentally, stuck. 
If you look at Pearson’s history (in addition to his couple of months here), his record without Shakespeare isn’t great. Also, if you consider his promotion with Leicester, that team were very close to breaking FFP, so he had a big budget to play with. Steve’s dilemma should be, can Nigel bring success without a large budget and without his favoured staff? 
We then have covid finances. Steve will be looking at the 21/22 season and thinking that income will still be incredibly low, unlikely fans will be back in full, no supplemental income to derive from the way he’s netted Ashton Gate income into the City books. 
Based on those unknowns, I don’t think Steve wants to commit too much spend at the moment. He’ll be offering Pearson a 12 month rolling contract whereas Nige will want 3 or even 4 years. 
They may come to a compromise but given the finances, I am now beginning to doubt that Steve will also let Nige have free reign on bringing in lots of his own staff. It could be, ok have a 2 year deal with a year option, but you work with what you’ve got (Simpson, Downing etc). 
 

I honestly think Steve is stuck. He wants Nige, but knows his past isn’t great without a big budget and his own personnel. Is this holding him back? 
 

Ultimately, Steve is in a mess of his own making, by putting 1 person in control of everything. 
We are now already falling behind in summer recruitment.  I’ve spoken to some agents today - things have gone very very quiet from BCFC. We currently have no one who is dealing with agents, putting in place the early conversations for summer movements. Other clubs are putting the groundwork in now. We are quiet. Because we had 1 person who did everything and he’s no longer doing it. 
 

Steve really needs to make his mind up asap. We can’t be dithering much longer. We’re putting ourselves into a corner where players will be going to other clubs and we’ll end up having to extend the failures we’ve got out of contract. I wonder what sort of meltdown there would be if we end up extending Baker, Weimann, Hunt, Watkins, Rowe, Simpson, Mariappa etc. Same squad as this year, very few additions because we had no one dealing with the agents. 
 

Steve needs to get on top of this urgently. Otherwise, I’m sorry to say, I can see a relegation on the cards next year. We have to thank our lucky stars we didn’t go down this year. If the season was 4 more games, we’d be gone. We are the worst team in the league. And we currently have no manager, no one dealing with recruitment, half the team due to leave and none being lined up to replace them. 
 

Some people will say “don’t panic, the window isn’t even open yet”. Well, prepping for the window and having early conversations with agents is happening now. And we’re not currently attending that party. 
 

We need action now Steve. You can’t dilly-dally on this one any longer. Either appoint Pearson now, or let him go now and bring in who you fancied last year but wasn’t available (he’s seemed very keen to tell us that there was someone he wanted). 
 

 

Out of likes, but exactly this, best post I've seen in ages that addresses the bigger picture of where we are right now.

You'd expect Ashton in Nov/Dec to be forthright with the guy that pays his wages about the possibility that he might be jumping ship, and to start planning regarding change of structure etc knowing the impending shit storm that could be happening this summer with transfers, change of manager etc.

If Ashton is not talking to agents, the only reason i can think of why he is still here would be
a) he's in the middle of negotiating new investment or
b) headhunting a new CEO/DOF or whatever the structure is gonna look like!!

If Steve hasn't seen this coming after all his experience of building a business and then building again with HL, it does make you wonder WTF is going on.

Steve's relationship with Peter Hargreaves would dare I say it be similar to the relationship he has NP, they are both brutally honest people who don't have a problem saying it how it is in a forthright manner, which is why I think Steve will end up employing NP.

[chipdawg]

This is an absolutely pivotal season for City. New manager, new CEO/management structure and a lot players out of contract in a football business market where there are likely to be transfer bargains to be had and players getting released that might otherwise have been retained. I have absolutely no problem with Lansdown taking his time to get this right against that background, but but I'm not convinced he has the track record on decision making to get it right

As for Pearson, I can't blame him for being concerned but the manager seems to have been using these games to try players out, see what he has to work with, especially in the youngsters. I have absolutely no issue with this, but we can't deny it's been shite for the most part.

If you look at the top 6, it's either money or a foreign head coach or both (Swansea maybe being an exception, though I bet their budget is decent). This says to me either spend money or think outside the box. I'm not sure "outside the box" is Steve's forte, so appointing Pearson and backing him seems like a safer option in that regard

 

[BrizzleRed]

39 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

See above, also  I dont dislike Pearson, getting bored of pointing that out tbh. The results, lack of progression and even getting basics right are alarming as is wanting to reward failure by repeating building a club around one man, only to rinse ans repeat. 

We've got to break this cycle some time and need to think differently or will be hear again when the next one goes etc. 

Legacy and continuity are something I've not hears for a ling time and that sticks as being where issues are as aside from Bristol City and playing youth, there's no identity there whatsoever. 

Actually I agree with everything you say there, but differ on how we see us achieving that.  You say you want to see continuity and not wanting to be relying on one individual to achieve that.  That’s great in principle and was my understanding of the 5 pillars stuff that was brought in while we had SOD.  

The problem is, since that point, the only sign we had of any kind of real identity was under SC and a fairly brief spell in 2017 with LJ.  I don’t think it’s unfair to say the rest has been pretty shite and totally lacking in identity.

Basically, the way I see it, the system we currently have is actually a big part of the reason for the mess we find ourselves in, rather than something we should be protecting in the hope that it may somehow improve with yet another change of manager.

Maybe the 5 pillar idea could work if we had all the right elements in place, but the evidence is that we clearly don’t.  It worked very well for Liverpool back in the days when they had ready made successors after Shankley, Pailey etc, but we seem a polar opposite to that.

I don’t think I’m being unfair in saying the only continuity and identity our system has provided is pretty consistent shiteness, so there seems to be an awful lot that needs fixing and will need a lot more than a few mild tweaks to try and fix.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Our last “exhaustive recruitment process” produced Holden...

As @Harry pointed out other clubs are speaking to agents about players who are out of contract this summer now.

In the meantime we have no one permanent in any significant position at the club.

Pearson should either be offered the job or shown the door this week, he has been here long enough for SL to decide he is a busted flush or managing a complete shit show.

 

Good - they will have their hands full looking at our shower of shit mob out of contract  players!

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, the frampton balti said:

That Mr Pearson appears to be able to do no wrong suggests that fans are so desperate almost that they feel he is our last hope  before the ship finally sinks. These players are not all wronguns as some suggest .  Some of them will be successful at other clubs after moving on for derisory  fees, others may well fade into obscurity. However it should be seen as a failure of the management and not these individuals, that we have been unable to get the best out of them even if they are not the best of them.

No, you’re right, they’re not.....but it doesn’t take many (just one or two), to completely break a “team”.  I would’ve expected him to have weeded them out, maybe he couldn’t for other reasons.  But at least for 45 minutes on Sunday we saw the effect of one of them not playing.  We actually played with some cohesion / purpose first half.  But we are fragile.  Pearson needs to address that.  I had hoped he would’ve already, but who could he have picked in our back 4 to help remove that fragility?  It’s a tough one isn’t it?

2 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Ah, that old chesnut. 

Sorry that my posts swim against the tide and make things uncomfortable for you and others going by reactions. 

The upshot is this is a discussion forum where people have different opinions over the same information. 

Not all people are in this group mentality that's prevailing around NP, that he must be appointed irrespective and that the team, coaches and upper management are broken beyond redemption. 

However, standing firm and taking different view point, however unpopular is where I'm at. I'm not going to apologise for that as at least it's authentic. 

Cheers

 

 

God, you’re up your own arse aren’t you?

Are others view not authentic then, just because they oppose yours?

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, KegCity said:

I think if the season was 4 or 5 games longer we'd be in trouble. Birmingham will finish above us this season, they were nearly down a month ago, so yes we really are shit enough to go down. We're bottom of the league based on the last 30 games!

The players have been given carrot for the past 5 years. With a few individual exceptions, the whole squad has been lauded by the fans as they beat United and climbed the table. The toxicity began when Lee became obsessed with defending, rather than attacking, and we became a timid and negative side. That attitude is still within the players. 

Clear out and start again is inevitable because we have so many players OOC, the club's hand is forced. Ashton has left, we have to start again or there's nobody running the club. I don't think anybody sensible is expecting a footballing revolution that sees us enter the top 6 over the summer, but the foundations have to be laid to go again and to actually look like we can get promoted and not like a Sunday League side that's won a lottery to play championship football.

I agree, Eliasson was a big loss that we never replaced, but Holden and many many others decided 3-5-2 was THE system and we would never ever use a different one, so wingers were surplus to requirements.

So, overall I would argue that it's probably the coaching and the environment of the club that will have a bigger influence on the performance of players than fans labelling players shite on social media. It's up to the players to go and prove their doubters wrong, rather than down tools as you suggest they have.

The "clamouring to reward failure" comment is frankly odd. The club gave Holden the managers job after being part of a team that failed repeatedly to achieve their aim of finishing in the top 6. Most of the players have consistently failed too, yet you suggest rewarding their failure by not introducing wholesale change?

Or....

.....if he’d come in 4/5 games earlier he might have had a short, sharp window of recruitment opportunity.

Hughton got landed similarly, post-summer window, team struggling.  Took him a while to turn it around, but also a different timeline in front of him.

Re second bold bit - yep, and we need to get someone to communicate that vision to us....and appoint the person to execute it.

[CyderInACan]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

In the meantime we have no one permanent in any significant position at the club.

Isn’t this just utterly, spectacularly, farcical. Other clubs must be pissing themselves. 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I don’t think any potential investors play any part in this. 
Steve has suggested he may be on the lookout for investors. Those conversations will be lengthy. There is zero chance, in my opinion, that any new investors are even close to being prepared and are having any impact on the managerial situation. 
More likely next season or later that we hear further on the new investment scene. 
 

Re the contract negotiations. I think it’s a bit of both. NP will want assurances of putting staff in place and a recruitment plan he can work to. SL will want assurances that NP can deliver on his own, with the current staff and on a smaller budget than he’s had in the past. 
Both have already alluded to being savvy in the market this year (ie, we’re not going to be big spending). 
 

Contract length, from what I understand, is a current sticking point. 
 

However, I must add, and further to my earlier post, I’m still unsure that Steve is totally sold on Nige, and Steve has been very keen to point out that a) Nige approached us and b) Steve had a preferred candidate last year who wasn’t available. 
I don’t know why he’d freely impart such information if there wasn’t something in it. I think Steve still has someone else he wants and their availability may still be in question. I don’t know who - though I have a theory. 
Whatever he wants, he needs to do it quick. 

Didn't SL say something (to 3 Peaps) along the lines that NP was available immediately whereas others on their list were long-term options? I didn't know what he was on about!

I've come to the conclusion that Lansdown is just a bit weird.

[Merrick's Marvels]

35 minutes ago, mozo said:

Didn't SL say something (to 3 Peaps) along the lines that NP was available immediately whereas others on their list were long-term options? I didn't know what he was on about!

I've come to the conclusion that Lansdown is just a bit weird.

He wants Eddie Howe - a nice young man who plays nice football and would be nice to Steve and Mrs Steve and Marina. Who'd be nice to referees and reporters and never spend Steve's money without asking permission first.

Unlike that nasty man Cotts who always made Steve feel a bit uncomfortable. Steve admitted recently (really did) he thought Nigel's reputation meant he might be a bit nasty too. Steve now realises no-one called Nigel can be nasty (unless you're a Romanian dog).

Even so, he still prefers that nice young man Eddie. For everything in Steve's world needs to be... nice.

Thankfully, nice Eddie's off to Celtic (or is he???). And anyway, Eddie's already told Steve - "So you're asking me to take a nice, lower league club and get promoted to the Prem, playing nice football, being nice to everybody along the way? You do realise we did that at Bournemouth by sh!tting all over FFP, don't you?"

"Well that's not very nice" came the reply

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

This obsession with getting something out of the players here now. This insistence in the myth in football of one bloke sweeping in and single-handedly transforming a rotten team into the opposite. 

Why would this group of players - safe from relegation, not going for promotion, weeks from an injury free summer break, out of contract in the summer, playing in empty grounds, probably aware of the disdain of absent supporters - why would they up their game now? 

What's in it for them?

Should be professional pride. Basic professionalism, they're paid well enough after all- look at the first few games in which Pearson and then assorted moments afterwards, that-should be the benchmark.

However in reality yes, sounds about right.

Would add, far from City specific- varied other clubs have had patchy, sketchy form- especially once it looked likely they would go neither up or down.

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

No idea if multiple quotes works on phones. So hope this works. 

Refresh me to where what I've stated suddenly invalidates someone else's point as opposed to disagreement with it. 

I accept that's your post's impression and that there's nothing that I can do or say to change that. 

 

I gave a somewhat shorter list ages ago, around left field appointments and more in tune with Bristol as a different city including women managers and those from abroad. 

I've faith because if we were that shit, we'd have been relegated and bankrupt some time ago. 

 

As mentioned in other threads, fans, lockdown and rumour has helped create a toxicity around the upper echelons of the club and indeed with SL goes back to when he first took over and never left. 

We have a team of players demotivated and at the beck and call of fans yet are being treated as naughty school kids rather than adults. 

It's clear stick hasnt worked, so perhaps carrot may be a start as well as actually looking at motivation. If players are told their shite, then that's all they will ever be 

We need as a team to break that cycle as weve a team of internationals and experienced at this level of players. 

Thw current management isnt working, neither did the previous.

Clear out and start again doesn't work because covid ffp etc, work with what we have and engage them. 

One of the biggest mistakes over the summer was selling Eliasson in my view but there's a lot that could have been done through successive managers to actually get basics right, and motivate, yet we dont. 

Not everyone is motivated by money and glort and it is simplistic to lump all footballers in the same boat. 

Change that, and those players might respond, it's finding the best manager to do that within budget, something we've historically failed at, and show no changes to as we seem to be clamouring to reward failure at present, which is insanity repeated. 

See above, also  I dont dislike Pearson, getting bored of pointing that out tbh. The results, lack of progression and even getting basics right are alarming as is wanting to reward failure by repeating building a club around one man, only to rinse ans repeat. 

We've got to break this cycle some time and need to think differently or will be hear again when the next one goes etc. 

Legacy and continuity are something I've not hears for a ling time and that sticks as being where issues are as aside from Bristol City and playing youth, there's no identity there whatsoever. 

Maybe you could 'refresh' us all as to where @Davefevs was "telling you your own thoughts".

There are a number of posters on here that share your view that Pearson is not the right man. I haven't taken issue with any of them.

Whilst we are telling you what to think, maybe you should think about that.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

God, you’re up your own arse aren’t you?

Are others view not authentic then, just because they oppose yours?

Well - here's a first- Davefevs !

One of your enduring qualities as a poster has always been to keep your cool and carry on.

I guess that the entire state of BCFC as it stands has affected deeply committed fans more than the forever LJ debate.

For my part- it has also, not in anger but in complete and utter absence of a passion which has kept me a fan for ever.

Pearson or embarrassingly "Piercy" as the OP stated- I can't get enthusiastic about because I can't get enthusiastic about the rest of it. 

[bcfc01]

35 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

 

Pearson or embarrassingly "Piercy" as the OP stated- I can't get enthusiastic about because I can't get enthusiastic about the rest of it. 

Its an article written by James Piercy.

Quite a good article as well.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Its an article written by James Piercy.

Quite a good article as well.

I've just read it.

( I just didn't read the 6 pages of comments as I'm finding too many threads a bit fractious atm )

 

I have to say it's probably the best thing Ive read by a journalist at the Post in many many years.

He's nailed it in such an even handed manner and sums up pretty much exactly how I feel. Very insightful article indeed.

 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Unfortunately, one of the great unknowns is that we don't know if there's ever been carrot. See Magnússon post Preston and other things. It doesn't scream carrot, nor  does it tell us everything. Same with DH public persona and behind the scenes are guesses with info filled in from rumours and itk. 

I get that perception has been massive as you say following cup exploits but, much like GJ was we were found out horribly thereafter. 

DH was same and NP hasn't started to impress either. 

The impression of a mess amongst fans etc leads their to be impression of mess, when we dont know. 

 

Whole regimes judged as failures because of one person waa kinda my point, yet we're here sayinf nothing successful can come from the sum of its parts. 

 

It's an odd dichotomy in football 

Agree with that largely, was all in for 5 pillars, gawd knows why we abandoned it... See the youth coming through etc.. 

 Thanks for responding in such a well thought out and considered manner. 

Yet again, your post puts words in to my mouth. 

I get that you've a different view but really, is that what your 'clap back' is because I dont share the same vision. 

Blimey. 

The youth did not come through because Johnson either shunted them all out on loan or ignored them!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

The youth did not come through because Johnson either shunted them all out on loan or ignored them!

Agreed- but most were just not good enough during his (GJ)era .

 

Not a trick question as I genuinely can't remember but who did he have in the youth category that he overlooked and who went on to excel here or elsewhere who were 1st team material at that time? 

[City1970]

13 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

This obsession with getting something out of the players here now. This insistence in the myth in football of one bloke sweeping in and single-handedly transforming a rotten team into the opposite. 

Why would this group of players - safe from relegation, not going for promotion, weeks from an injury free summer break, out of contract in the summer, playing in empty grounds, probably aware of the disdain of absent supporters - why would they up their game now? 

What's in it for them?

Professionalism and self pride. If they haven't got that, then they should not be in the game. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, City1970 said:

Professionalism and self pride. If they haven't got that, then they should not be in the game. 

a 'Like' x 10.

[bpexile]

14 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Gary Johnson once wisely said if you want to motivate footballers, sign footballers who want to be motivated & that is pretty much nail on head.

I do think that we are in the middle of a perfect storm though, we have uncertainty both on & off the pitch, the fiasco of Diedhiou’s contract & players who either know they won’t be here next season whatever happens or want to be but aren’t showing anything to suggest they should.

”What’s in it for them?” That should be a decent contract at a well paid club & for some (Hunt is my best example here) I honestly believe they are striving for that but are in horrible form & bereft of confidence.

As for Pearson I said it all yesterday, results have been awful but SL (& him alone, there is no board) is at make your mind up time, either he feels the circumstances are sufficient mitigation or he doesn’t, either way he needs to decide in the next few days.

My dear old Grandad used to say similar to me about people in everyday life.

AS the saying goes "You can only help those that want to be helped"

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Unfortunately, one of the great unknowns is that we don't know if there's ever been carrot. See Magnússon post Preston and other things. It doesn't scream carrot, nor  does it tell us everything. Same with DH public persona and behind the scenes are guesses with info filled in from rumours and itk. 

I get that perception has been massive as you say following cup exploits but, much like GJ was we were found out horribly thereafter. 

DH was same and NP hasn't started to impress either. 

The impression of a mess amongst fans etc leads their to be impression of mess, when we dont know. 

 

Whole regimes judged as failures because of one person waa kinda my point, yet we're here sayinf nothing successful can come from the sum of its parts. 

 

It's an odd dichotomy in football 

Agree with that largely, was all in for 5 pillars, gawd knows why we abandoned it... See the youth coming through etc.. 

 Thanks for responding in such a well thought out and considered manner. 

Yet again, your post puts words in to my mouth. 

I get that you've a different view but really, is that what your 'clap back' is because I dont share the same vision. 

Blimey. 

No it’s because of your passive aggressive style, and the way you try to belittle other poster’s views (mine included) that differ from your own.  That’s why I clapped-back.

I have no problem with differing views. I have no problem with your view on Nigel Pearson.  As I’ve said before I respect your views on Danny Simpson signing too.

I have some fantastic debates on OTIB with posters with completely opposing views.  I have fantastic discussions with posters I agree with too, each helping to expand the conversation.

You’ve posted before that I shouldn’t post some stuff in case I influence others....and that I post a lot....and that I write long posts....and that I put some stats up.  Why is that / am I such a problem to you?

Happy to take it to DM if you like?  I offered that previously too.

[Mr Chappers]

When DH was in charge, popular opinion seemed to be that it was a good squad needing an experienced manager. Now we know it was a poor squad and an experienced manager has made no difference whatsoever. The warning signs are there that he may not be the right man, regardless of the blind optimism. 

[Sixtyseconds]

Used to fight competitively.

If my coach told me I was not up to it.

Not good enough.

Wouldn't be good enough.

If my coach told the world I was not up to it.

Not good enough.

Wouldn't be good enough.

He wouldn't.

He didn't.

And I gave my best.

Even when hurt.

He cares about you.

You'll care about what you do for us.

[Northern Red]

I feed the pigeons

I sometimes feed the sparrows too

It gives me a sense of enormous wellbeing

[Red Skin]

On 27/04/2021 at 09:20, ncnsbcfc said:

As such, rather than just announcing NP of his own; the club are lining up the complete new structure, and will announce all of it at the same time.

I agree. You could argue that appointment of a CEO/DOF is even more important to get right than the appointment if a manager.   Though there should have been succession planning in place for MA.

If a complete restructure is on the cards then SL could be considering replacing his son - not the easiest conversation to have. 

Time is of the essence but it is more important in my opinion to get a restructure correct for the long time future of the club.  Better to impact next season adversely and take your time to make the right appointments.  Rather than rushing to the wrong ones and affect the next 5 years adversely.