the frampton balti Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 Do they get paid more if they play? do they get paid more if they win /score/ clean sheet?? promotion relegation etc how does this affect? Assuming a 10K per week average wage is that £520000 per year. how does it work if a player gets injured genuinely intrigued. Surely players would play really well if they only got paid if they won!!!! Is there something wrong with bcfc contracts that is not giving players AND managers enough incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted April 27, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 Simple answer is all the points you raise will be in some but not others. Individual bonuses will more likely be player specific, but also likely there is some carrot (like a team holiday paid for) if the side gets promoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, the frampton balti said: Do they get paid more if they play? do they get paid more if they win /score/ clean sheet?? promotion relegation etc how does this affect? Assuming a 10K per week average wage is that £520000 per year. how does it work if a player gets injured genuinely intrigued. Surely players would play really well if they only got paid if they won!!!! Is there something wrong with bcfc contracts that is not giving players AND managers enough incentive. The issue with wages being more if you win is that it could breed resentment if someone under hit a back pass that cost us 2 points. All players will have a base salary like anyone in a 9-5 job. Often these will be supplemented by appearance fees. This would serve as better motivation than a win as it comes down to individual performance to remain in the team. This is actually how I would approach Baker this summer. When fit, he is one of the best central defenders in the Championship. Obviously this season has underlined the "When fit". I would be tempted to say "We can't offer you £26k per week you're currently on, but will offer £10k per week with a £10k appearance fee". We save the money when he's unavailable but 20k for one of the best in the league is well worth it in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the frampton balti Posted April 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, Steve Watts said: The issue with wages being more if you win is that it could breed resentment if someone under hit a back pass that cost us 2 points. Isnt that the whole point! surely we want your teammates to be pissed off when you miss hit a backpass. you mean like Tommy Rowe the other week!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 In answer to your original question, yes I have - several, but not for a few years. Following are common (on a “standard” deal) - You’ll have a basic. That’s a given in most cases. Pay as you play is rare. - Bonuses are where it gets really interesting. There are both individual and team clauses in every contract I’ve seen, and they’re also weighted dependent on position any result takes you to - eg you may see this clause: The player will receive the following sums if they are selected in the match day squad and play in the fixture, and the club wins the game. The amount paid will be dependent on the clubs position at the end of the round of games. For avoidance of doubt in games that are classed as “weekend” this position will be classified as at 23:59 on the following Monday, and for games classified as “midweek” this position will be classified as 23:59 on the Wednesday Position 24-22 £0 Position 16-21 £500 Position 10-15 £750 Position 6-9 £900 Position 3-5 £1100 Position 1-2 £1500 Should the team draw the game, the above sums will be paid at 50%. Should the club lose the game, the above sums will be paid at 25%. Non playing members of the team will receive 50% of the revised amounts For the first 10 games of the season, a flat win rate of £750 will be paid So, thing there is that the bonuses are weighted dependent on position. Now, you’ll see that means that once you’re in the bottom 3 the incentive to get out is less because you don’t get the reward in any case… - Every, and I mean, every competition is included. I’ve seen L2 contracts with FA cup winner clauses - Goal, assist, clean sheet bonuses do happen but the weighting is more typically to team as in the above - Yes, you do get set wage rise clauses/auto renewal after x games clauses/highest wage match clauses etc. It is quite similar to how it’s set up in FM but they do miss the weighted win bonus aspect as above. For obvious reasons I can’t say whose contracts I’ve seen but the aboves a good generic guide! Nb - financials illustrative only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 13 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: In answer to your original question, yes I have - several, but not for a few years. Following are common (on a “standard” deal) - You’ll have a basic. That’s a given in most cases. Pay as you play is rare. - Bonuses are where it gets really interesting. There are both individual and team clauses in every contract I’ve seen, and they’re also weighted dependent on position any result takes you to - eg you may see this clause: The player will receive the following sums if they are selected in the match day squad and play in the fixture, and the club wins the game. The amount paid will be dependent on the clubs position at the end of the round of games. For avoidance of doubt in games that are classed as “weekend” this position will be classified as at 23:59 on the following Monday, and for games classified as “midweek” this position will be classified as 23:59 on the Wednesday Position 24-22 £0 Position 16-21 £500 Position 10-15 £750 Position 6-9 £900 Position 3-5 £1100 Position 1-2 £1500 Should the team draw the game, the above sums will be paid at 50%. Should the club lose the game, the above sums will be paid at 25%. Non playing members of the team will receive 50% of the revised amounts For the first 10 games of the season, a flat win rate of £750 will be paid So, thing there is that the bonuses are weighted dependent on position. Now, you’ll see that means that once you’re in the bottom 3 the incentive to get out is less because you don’t get the reward in any case… - Every, and I mean, every competition is included. I’ve seen L2 contracts with FA cup winner clauses - Goal, assist, clean sheet bonuses do happen but the weighting is more typically to team as in the above - Yes, you do get set wage rise clauses/auto renewal after x games clauses/highest wage match clauses etc. It is quite similar to how it’s set up in FM but they do miss the weighted win bonus aspect as above. For obvious reasons I can’t say whose contracts I’ve seen but the aboves a good generic guide! Nb - financials illustrative only. Someone has to sit there and work it out per player each week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 1 minute ago, formerly known as ivan said: Someone has to sit there and work it out per player each week? Yep. Not really difficult. You have (before this year) 18 players in a match day team + subs, so a pretty small financial admin job on a multi million pound business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 15 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: In answer to your original question, yes I have - several, but not for a few years. Following are common (on a “standard” deal) - You’ll have a basic. That’s a given in most cases. Pay as you play is rare. - Bonuses are where it gets really interesting. There are both individual and team clauses in every contract I’ve seen, and they’re also weighted dependent on position any result takes you to - eg you may see this clause: The player will receive the following sums if they are selected in the match day squad and play in the fixture, and the club wins the game. The amount paid will be dependent on the clubs position at the end of the round of games. For avoidance of doubt in games that are classed as “weekend” this position will be classified as at 23:59 on the following Monday, and for games classified as “midweek” this position will be classified as 23:59 on the Wednesday Position 24-22 £0 Position 16-21 £500 Position 10-15 £750 Position 6-9 £900 Position 3-5 £1100 Position 1-2 £1500 Should the team draw the game, the above sums will be paid at 50%. Should the club lose the game, the above sums will be paid at 25%. Non playing members of the team will receive 50% of the revised amounts For the first 10 games of the season, a flat win rate of £750 will be paid So, thing there is that the bonuses are weighted dependent on position. Now, you’ll see that means that once you’re in the bottom 3 the incentive to get out is less because you don’t get the reward in any case… - Every, and I mean, every competition is included. I’ve seen L2 contracts with FA cup winner clauses - Goal, assist, clean sheet bonuses do happen but the weighting is more typically to team as in the above - Yes, you do get set wage rise clauses/auto renewal after x games clauses/highest wage match clauses etc. It is quite similar to how it’s set up in FM but they do miss the weighted win bonus aspect as above. For obvious reasons I can’t say whose contracts I’ve seen but the aboves a good generic guide! Nb - financials illustrative only. Quite some time ago too, but list of bonuses I've seen also included: - Guaranteed appearances, if player remained fit and available for selection (which may explain some odd substitutions towards the end of seasons) - Bonuses after a set amount of appearances (the player I knew dislikes one manager as he purposely didn't pick him for the one extra game that would have triggered this in his contract) Altogether the list was a good few sides of A4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 1 hour ago, the frampton balti said: Do they get paid more if they play? do they get paid more if they win /score/ clean sheet?? promotion relegation etc how does this affect? Assuming a 10K per week average wage is that £520000 per year. how does it work if a player gets injured genuinely intrigued. Surely players would play really well if they only got paid if they won!!!! Is there something wrong with bcfc contracts that is not giving players AND managers enough incentive. A couple of years ago at Western League level we had a set amount for a win, a draw and a loss. E.g. you got paid regardless but you got more for a draw and again for a win. In the defence we had clean sheet bonuses and the strikers had goal bonuses. Only squad members got paid so if you didn't make the matchday squad you got nothing e.g. injury. I can't say I was motivated more to win by the money, I was motiviated by personal pride and competitiveness. I bloody hate losing at anything. You did get some people who would dig someone out if a mistake cost us a win/draw as unfortunately some are only motivated by the money. I think you'll get the same at higher levels only amplified. You'll have incredibly driven people who must win at all costs immediately spring to mind are players like John Terry and managers like Neil Warnock. You'll also get some who just happen to be pretty good at football but don't really seem to care about the game, your Gareth Bales for example. I remember one player being in a position like Fam's (eg we are paying him we need to get value out of him). He was under contract for some ridiculous reason and a stupid amount per game - old head, been around the block but his legs were gone and he had no motivation other than money (and boy did he tell us). He was first name on the teamsheet because the manager was told he must play as we're paying him anyway if he doesnt. As you can imagine, we had a shocking season until he was finally got rid of. 1 hour ago, Steve Watts said: The issue with wages being more if you win is that it could breed resentment if someone under hit a back pass that cost us 2 points. All players will have a base salary like anyone in a 9-5 job. Often these will be supplemented by appearance fees. This would serve as better motivation than a win as it comes down to individual performance to remain in the team. This is actually how I would approach Baker this summer. When fit, he is one of the best central defenders in the Championship. Obviously this season has underlined the "When fit". I would be tempted to say "We can't offer you £26k per week you're currently on, but will offer £10k per week with a £10k appearance fee". We save the money when he's unavailable but 20k for one of the best in the league is well worth it in this day and age. The problem with your scenario there is a player could be put in a position where the manager doesn't pick him simply as a cost exercise rather than performance. Can't have your best player sitting out just because it saves us a bit of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 @Davefevs definitely has.... In the know with wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 I have , when I worked for a High Street lender and had an application from a Premier League player who had just moved to a London club . This was back in 1997 and I was gobsmacked to see his basic was £900,000 ( obviously can’t name the player, but suffice to say he was not what anyone would regard as a top player even though he played for a big club). From memory there were a few pages in the contract and quite a lot of conditional bonuses, although I cant remember exact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 You do wonder about the contracts that demand that certain players although well passed their best must be played for the last minutes of every game just so they get their record appearances and money. (Beckham's last few England games spring to mind.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Spoons said: @Davefevs definitely has.... In the know with wages I have as it happens. Only one though, some time ago. It was very basic, nowhere near as convoluted as the ones Silvio has explained. But I guess you’re referring back our little joke from a while back. hence why I’m very much in the “allegedly” and “probably in the ball-park of” camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 I believe that at one stage, Wayne Allison was on an incentive scheme. Most professional players are on a win bonus and if the team wins promotion or a cup, that's more money in the bank. Thinking back to the early 80's; Clive Whitehead had been playing in the reserves because City could not afford the win bonus if he was in the first team 10 years ago, a friend's son was a youth player for Forest. He was on £250 / week. After ten appearances for the Reserves, it increased to £350 / week. The wages leapt dramatically if they made it to the first team, even as a Sub for the last two minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 Isn't it the Liverpool youth players that get into the first team for a champions league game that are pretty much made for life by that one game. I think I heard that once - it was something like the whole team gets the same win bonus and they always won in those early rounds so a 16 yo coming on with 5 mins left would get the same bonus as Gerrard. Might have been the Peter Crouch podcast I heard it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBW Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 Seen loads of them. I've been managing Bath City and Boreham Wood for a combined 30+ seasons over the past two FM games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepywall Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 I've never seen a players contract but I would imagine somewhere in the contract, especially at AG it says...I agree to put in zero effort ...I won't pass to a teammate...I won't have a shot on goal...i won't make a tackle...from a throw in I will throw it to an opponent and I'll quite happily take my 25k a week, thanks very much, where do I sign ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the frampton balti Posted April 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 6 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: In answer to your original question, yes I have - several, but not for a few years. Following are common (on a “standard” deal) - You’ll have a basic. That’s a given in most cases. Pay as you play is rare. - Bonuses are where it gets really interesting. There are both individual and team clauses in every contract I’ve seen, and they’re also weighted dependent on position any result takes you to - eg you may see this clause: The player will receive the following sums if they are selected in the match day squad and play in the fixture, and the club wins the game. The amount paid will be dependent on the clubs position at the end of the round of games. For avoidance of doubt in games that are classed as “weekend” this position will be classified as at 23:59 on the following Monday, and for games classified as “midweek” this position will be classified as 23:59 on the Wednesday Position 24-22 £0 Position 16-21 £500 Position 10-15 £750 Position 6-9 £900 Position 3-5 £1100 Position 1-2 £1500 Should the team draw the game, the above sums will be paid at 50%. Should the club lose the game, the above sums will be paid at 25%. Non playing members of the team will receive 50% of the revised amounts For the first 10 games of the season, a flat win rate of £750 will be paid So, thing there is that the bonuses are weighted dependent on position. Now, you’ll see that means that once you’re in the bottom 3 the incentive to get out is less because you don’t get the reward in any case… - Every, and I mean, every competition is included. I’ve seen L2 contracts with FA cup winner clauses - Goal, assist, clean sheet bonuses do happen but the weighting is more typically to team as in the above - Yes, you do get set wage rise clauses/auto renewal after x games clauses/highest wage match clauses etc. It is quite similar to how it’s set up in FM but they do miss the weighted win bonus aspect as above. For obvious reasons I can’t say whose contracts I’ve seen but the aboves a good generic guide! Nb - financials illustrative only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the frampton balti Posted April 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 Thank you for such a detailed reply ! Considering im earning 10k per week the bonuses you suggest dont seem like much of an incentive . A contract whereby a lose earns me 1k whereas a win gets me 20k would seem better . But only since i am so confident of my teammates and managers abilities! I could do without a holiday to bermuda with the team as a bonus though. Likewise 2k on the bench ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted April 27, 2021 Report Share Posted April 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Steve Watts said: The issue with wages being more if you win is that it could breed resentment if someone under hit a back pass that cost us 2 points. All players will have a base salary like anyone in a 9-5 job. Often these will be supplemented by appearance fees. This would serve as better motivation than a win as it comes down to individual performance to remain in the team. This is actually how I would approach Baker this summer. When fit, he is one of the best central defenders in the Championship. Obviously this season has underlined the "When fit". I would be tempted to say "We can't offer you £26k per week you're currently on, but will offer £10k per week with a £10k appearance fee". We save the money when he's unavailable but 20k for one of the best in the league is well worth it in this day and age. I broadly agree with that but you’ve still got to be relatively sure he’ll play a decent number of games otherwise you’ve a regular baker shaped hole in the squad or have to pay for someone of his standard to cover him. Tricky. I reckon he’ll be let go... when fit, as you say he’s as good as we could expect to find at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted April 28, 2021 Report Share Posted April 28, 2021 I read a contract of an Arsenal player - it was quite short and he was getting £3 per week and also got a silver plated tea tray for his service. I just love watching The Antiques Roadshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted April 28, 2021 Report Share Posted April 28, 2021 13 hours ago, Pezo said: Isn't it the Liverpool youth players that get into the first team for a champions league game that are pretty much made for life by that one game. I think I heard that once - it was something like the whole team gets the same win bonus and they always won in those early rounds so a 16 yo coming on with 5 mins left would get the same bonus as Gerrard. Might have been the Peter Crouch podcast I heard it on. It was, I remember the story - although I don't think he was 'made for life', I think because they won the CL that year, he got some of the money. But I'm 52 and my memory isn't what it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj77 Posted April 28, 2021 Report Share Posted April 28, 2021 19 hours ago, Pezo said: Isn't it the Liverpool youth players that get into the first team for a champions league game that are pretty much made for life by that one game. I think I heard that once - it was something like the whole team gets the same win bonus and they always won in those early rounds so a 16 yo coming on with 5 mins left would get the same bonus as Gerrard. Might have been the Peter Crouch podcast I heard it on. Yep, you heard it on the Peter Crouch podcast. He said it's why the kids on the bench go mental if they score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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