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Nigel Pearson - Confirmed as new City Manager on a 3 Year Deal

CyderInACan

By CyderInACan
in Football Chat

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Merrick's Marvels

Merrick's Marvels

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Genuine question here - and I do agree with your overall point. 

How do you go about finding players who are leaders and have the mental strength we lack? 

We know there is a team of analysts. Davefevs posts lots of interesting statistical data on here, which is presumably the kind of info they use. Where do you go to get reliable insight on a player's mental strength and leadership though?

Do you rely on knowing them already e. g. Danny Simpson. That seems very limiting. Is it by talking to their current coaches i. e. relying on someone with their own agenda. 

It feels like this is where we've been going wrong but I'm not sure how easy it is to fix. 

 

Imo, a good starting point for this is to have real proper "football people" in charge of scouting and recruitment. Not bullsh!tters with laptops. 

 

37 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the issue is the balance the nature of the squad. We've a lot of supporting players but no leaders and nobody who will dominate a match.

I think there are plenty within the squad - e.g. Bentley, Vyner, Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Bakinson, Nagy, Palmer, Semenyo, Weimann, Martin and Wells - who, if fit and consistent, could be part of a good Championship squad.

However

a) Many of them are inconsistent or can't stay fit

b) None of them are leaders

c) None of them are players who will turn a game or raise the team's performance if things go against us.

If we could sign four or five dominant players who can be the backbone of the team, I think we've got the players to supplement that and build out a team that, whilst perhaps not challenging for promotion, could certainly look far more competitive than we do right now. The problem is that, without those players, we look like a team with no leadership and no backbone. 

 

Agree 100%. These have been my thoughts for a while too but you've nailed it.

This squad was, by and large, assembled by Lee Johnson. Over time, every squad comes to reflect the manager and this one reflects Lee Johnson.

So it's no surprise - when you consider what sort of player he was - that our squad is full of players who are talented but also your points (b) and (c).  

There are some basics about football which are the same, I suspect, whether you play at the top end of the game, the bottom, or any point in between:  I knew that if I turned up on a Sunday morning and player (a) or (b) was missing we were going to struggle to win, whereas if (x) or (y) was still in bed it didn't matter so much. 

City have a lot of (x) and (y) players at the moment, not enough (a) or (b).   

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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Wilder

No way on earth would he have been interested.

Firstly he will want a job in or near to the North.

Secondly his time in the Prem will mean he’d expect an offer from a far bigger club, not one that has been on the slide since November & is a long way from home.

When we canvassed interest in January Pearson was by far the biggest candidate to say yes, now the only realistic alternatives would have been Neil, Monk or someone in the lower divisions like Ryan Lowe.

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Simon bristol

Simon bristol

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

No way on earth would he have been interested.

Firstly he will want a job in or near to the North.

Secondly his time in the Prem will mean he’d expect an offer from a far bigger club, not one that has been on the slide since November & is a long way from home.

When we canvassed interest in January Pearson was by far the biggest candidate to say yes, now the only realistic alternatives would have been Neil, Monk or someone in the lower divisions like Ryan Lowe.

Ok chris, thanks for confirming your lack of interest, i know you are inline for the real madrid job, but wondered if you might fancy a championship job with rebuilt stadium and training facility and extremely lenient billionaire owner in the meantime?

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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

Ok chris, thanks for confirming your lack of interest, i know you are inline for the real madrid job, but wondered if you might fancy a championship job with rebuilt stadium and training facility and extremely lenient billionaire owner in the meantime?

See where he ends up next before making smart arse comments..

We really are nowhere near as attractive as some think.

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Merrick's Marvels

Merrick's Marvels

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Ok chris, thanks for confirming your lack of interest, i know you are inline for the real madrid job, but wondered if you might fancy a championship job with rebuilt stadium and training facility and extremely lenient billionaire owner in the meantime?

I agree we have a patient owner - one of the reasons Pearson is truly, madly delighted to be here compared to some of the bampot owners he's been employed by in the past.

But the idea that, just because we've managed to drag our bricks and mortar into the 21st century years after other clubs had done it, we are somehow more attractive than those other clubs is, frankly... laughable.

Ashton Gate and the new training ground make us more attractive than which clubs, precisely - of the Premier and Championship ones Wilder might conceivably get a job at?   

 

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Simon bristol

Simon bristol

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

See where he ends up next before making smart arse comments..

We really are nowhere near as attractive as some think.

Foot ball is pretty well ####ed, someone out of work would be seriously considering a 15k a week offer to come in and manage a midtable championship club in a nice area. Im not suggesting we go after mourinho, but someone who did a job at a club that was later relegated from the premier league,,, and that could be describing pearson as well as wilder.

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Baba Yaga said:

Whether it works out or not I think the board have made the right move bringing in a serious, no nonsense character with a good level of experience at this level and the level we aspire to be at. It will possibly take a few years to rebuild the squad so I see it as a tricky long term project and it comes with plenty of risk if results don't pick up, but hoping Nige is the man to build a squad with what it takes to challenge at the top end of the championship. To make an underperforming city like Bristol realise its potential is a great opportunity for the right man, plenty have failed or haven't had the luck needed but fingers crossed its a new dawn for the football club!

What is "a few years"? Too long and it becomes a continual rebuild. My expectation now is lower top half at end of coming season, followed by a serious attempt at play offs  or automatic promotion the next season.  If not achieved, third year same as second year. From then on with "Jack Charlton's Four Year Manager Cycle", if we haven't done it, but seriously want it, we'll be looking for an upgrade on Pearson.

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steviestevieneville

steviestevieneville

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, italian dave said:

I'll leave the question of how you get into the top 6 other than by results for now! But seriously, the point I was making if that if this squad is as poor as you - and others ('even Pep couldn't do anything with it' etc) - suggest, then presumably it's going no further with NP in charge either? That was where my question and comment came from - the statement by NP that we have good players in the squad, the suggestion that we're not going to see too many changes over the summer etc. That suggests that he sees more in our current players than you do?

NP said . We have good players in the squad who are not available ie Walsh williams wiemann dasilva . Those players have missed the vast majority of not the whole season. They would make a difference obviously . There’s not much I’d want to keep from the rest of them though . 

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Baba Yaga

Baba Yaga

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

What is "a few years"? Too long and it becomes a continual rebuild. My expectation now is lower top half at end of coming season, followed by a serious attempt at play offs  or automatic promotion the next season.  If not achieved, third year same as second year. From then on with "Jack Charlton's Four Year Manager Cycle", if we haven't done it, but seriously want it, we'll be looking for an upgrade on Pearson.

I would agree with it being a 3-4 year project, if there was a real threat of relegation then time might have to be up sooner but beyond that I would want him to have a fair amount of time and authority to try and build up his own vision. Hopefully this doesn't happen but if we are lower mid table playing boring football this time next year or in 18 months then I would be calling for patience, but after that time period I would expect to start seeing an improvement.

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

I would agree with it being a 3-4 year project, if there was a real threat of relegation then time might have to be up sooner but beyond that I would want him to have a fair amount of time and authority to try and build up his own vision. Hopefully this doesn't happen but if we are lower mid table playing boring football this time next year or in 18 months then I would be calling for patience, but after that time period I would expect to start seeing an improvement.

2021-22 Lower mid-table 

Next season, NP will largely be working with inherited players and youngsters, with only a handful of signings with his fingerprints. Further, he has to turn around the losing mentality and injury crisis. Survival is essential and the higher up the league the better.

2022-23 Mid-table 

With a 3rd transfer window and two pre-season under his belt, the squad will start to look his own and NP should by then have had time to work on the mentality and fitness issues. Developing a consistency is key. 

2023-24 Push for top 6

A squad now transformed and we should win more than we lose. 

2024-25 Playoffs

If season 3 didn't quite get us there, you would now expect us to be one if the Championship's big guns.

I think that is a rational expectation. 

Edit: apologies for mixing my tenses!

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, italian dave said:

Does that beg some questions about where we might have been if previous managers had even an average number of injuries to deal with over the last couple of years?

It’s a genuine question: I don’t have as hugely strong a view as others on our managerial appointments and departures, so interested in your view.

Our current squad really isn’t hugely different to the squad that we had 18 months ago that maintained a top six position throughout, for example, Nov 19. They are not as bad as many would make out and comments like ‘even Pep couldn’t do anything with this squad’ seem to miss that point. Seems like we’re now expecting Nige to achieve something with them - and maybe rightly so, but also makes me wonder how others would have done with a fully fit squad. 

This is a good one, and always likely to be a subjective answer, but here goes (theoretically).

If you have a squad of similar abilities, it shouldn’t make a difference if player A or player B in position x is injured.  You still have the same level ability.  City’s squad is one of similar abilities (in the main).  The fact that we all debate who is better than who and have counter opinions, shows we don’t really have stellar players who when injured create an obvious weakness.  Although you might argue some players deemed to be average perhaps look better having not been in the side!

But that’s too simple.

Some players thrive on competition for their place, others don’t.

So if player A is the one who thrives on completion from player B, and player B is injured, then player A might drop their levels.  Player b might be the one who plays best when he’s not under any competitive pressure for his place.

Then you have players who gel better with others, the team dynamic!

Then you have burnout, no rest, no rotation, etc.  Jack Hunt was playing better early season when Sessegnon was playing the midweek cup games.

If we go back to LJ, here and Barnsley - many fans would suggest his team played better when he had no choice who to select!

So to answer - no idea ???

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Southport Red

Southport Red

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is a good one, and always likely to be a subjective answer, but here goes (theoretically).

If you have a squad of similar abilities, it shouldn’t make a difference if player A or player B in position x is injured.  You still have the same level ability.  City’s squad is one of similar abilities (in the main).  The fact that we all debate who is better than who and have counter opinions, shows we don’t really have stellar players who when injured create an obvious weakness.  Although you might argue some players deemed to be average perhaps look better having not been in the side!

But that’s too simple.

Some players thrive on competition for their place, others don’t.

So if player A is the one who thrives on completion from player B, and player B is injured, then player A might drop their levels.  Player b might be the one who plays best when he’s not under any competitive pressure for his place.

Then you have players who gel better with others, the team dynamic!

Then you have burnout, no rest, no rotation, etc.  Jack Hunt was playing better early season when Sessegnon was playing the midweek cup games.

If we go back to LJ, here and Barnsley - many fans would suggest his team played better when he had no choice who to select!

So to answer - no idea ???

The other thing Dave is when all players specialising in a certain position (e.g. Left Back) are out, then the skill level drops alarmingly. 

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

 

I will answer your original point. The way we obtained results to get into the top 6 for a month was unsustainable over a whole season, over a 3 year period etc. and that isn't a matter of opinion, it's 100% fact because we've never finished there.

What I think he will do this summer is start with the spine of the team. Goalkeeper needed if Bentley goes, Centre Half, Centre Mid and Centre Forward. If he wants the option to play with width he also has to sign at least one wide player. Other than that in his first season he is relying on the likes of O'Dowda, Palmer, Wells, Kalas and whoever else he decides to keep to have enough to stay in the division. To be fair with the right additions that shouldn't be an issue and we might also see a change in playing style too. Remember NP cleraly stated he needs 4-6 windows to turn us into a promotion chasing team and has specifically also said we are nowhere near it right now. That wasn't a flippant, passing comment. It was as clear as day what he has been repeating for weeks now. The fact that approaching double figures of players will be allowed to leave is not a ringing endorsement of squad ability.................but's it's also about more than lack of ability, it's also about their lack of flexibility. Nowhere do you question my statement that our squad is currently one dimensional.........do you disagree with that?

I don't see much happening in the winter window unless we are desperately short somewhere so for me the interesting window will be his THIRD one because that is where, in my opinion, the real process of building a promotion challenging team starts.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with that - although it's debatable whether they've been allowed to demonstrate flexibility. And I completely agree with you on the need for a 'spine' - I said exactly the same thing on another thread recently.

I just don't see everything in quite the 'black and white' way that some do - and that's not to put you in that camp. The squad isn't perfect - evidently - but neither is it in need of a complete rebuild as some suggest. It's often about luck, fine margins, injuries - I wonder where we'd be now had we kept Webster and Brownhill, and had a relatively injury free squad the past couple of seasons. I wonder if NPs 'understanding' with SL is not only about having a say in who we bring in, but also who we keep.

I hope NP is the person to make the changes we need: I'll support him as I do every City manager. I'm encouraged by his pedigree. I worry that we've gone for the safe old head at a time when that's not what's getting success in the Championship. We'll see - interesting times ahead!

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the issue is the balance the nature of the squad. We've a lot of supporting players but no leaders and nobody who will dominate a match.

I think there are plenty within the squad - e.g. Bentley, Vyner, Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Bakinson, Nagy, Palmer, Semenyo, Weimann, Martin and Wells - who, if fit and consistent, could be part of a good Championship squad.

However

a) Many of them are inconsistent or can't stay fit

b) None of them are leaders

c) None of them are players who will turn a game or raise the team's performance if things go against us.

If we could sign four or five dominant players who can be the backbone of the team, I think we've got the players to supplement that and build out a team that, whilst perhaps not challenging for promotion, could certainly look far more competitive than we do right now. The problem is that, without those players, we look like a team with no leadership and no backbone. 

100% As I've said above, agree completely on the 'spine' - and it's hard to believe how long we've been crying out for that 'leader'. I've said elsewhere - I think we have a potential one in HNM - but we can't wait 5 years!

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is a good one, and always likely to be a subjective answer, but here goes (theoretically).

If you have a squad of similar abilities, it shouldn’t make a difference if player A or player B in position x is injured.  You still have the same level ability.  City’s squad is one of similar abilities (in the main).  The fact that we all debate who is better than who and have counter opinions, shows we don’t really have stellar players who when injured create an obvious weakness.  Although you might argue some players deemed to be average perhaps look better having not been in the side!

But that’s too simple.

Some players thrive on competition for their place, others don’t.

So if player A is the one who thrives on completion from player B, and player B is injured, then player A might drop their levels.  Player b might be the one who plays best when he’s not under any competitive pressure for his place.

Then you have players who gel better with others, the team dynamic!

Then you have burnout, no rest, no rotation, etc.  Jack Hunt was playing better early season when Sessegnon was playing the midweek cup games.

If we go back to LJ, here and Barnsley - many fans would suggest his team played better when he had no choice who to select!

So to answer - no idea ???

That's cleared that up then ??

I think you're right though - it's all got a large degree of unpredictability - and just straightforward luck - in there. And when that goes right it breeds confidence (and vice-versa) - another one of those things it's hard to pin down, but undoubtedly plays a huge part.

LJ certainly did better when he was down to bare bones (I remember a game at Derby where we barely had 15 fit players, and thought we were going to get hammered - and put in one of our best performances of the season) -  and when he stuck with a team and a plan - but there's luck (ie avoiding injuries) inherent in that too!

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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Thanks for the heads up. 

Let's hope he gets Joey on at some point too, what a laugh that would be. 

Better do so before June then, as I’m pretty sure outgoing phone calls are limited to less than an hour for where he’s going..

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