Was SOD about to turn it around?

[Red Exile]

8 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Highlight of life under SOD by far

 

The only game I was at in SOD's reign...but what a night!

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, Henry said:

Great post. He had the right ideas.

Ignoring his history, would you have him back at City? I could see a role for him in recruitment or the academy.

Since leaving us he’s enjoyed his new career as an academy coach. 
Robbo refers to his brief stint at Walsall but doesn’t highlight that he’s been employed as England u19’s manager, Liverpool assistant manager (appointed by Brendan Rodgers) and then moved on to academy coaching roles with Wolves and now Portsmouth. 
It won’t ever happen but if he was running our academy now I’d be delighted. 

[winsaw]

For me SOD was more of a director of football not a manager, he was someone who could sort a club out behind the scenes but was not able to bring exciting football to the pitch,

I think He could have been the right man but in the wrong position at the club, 

[ohhhshauntaylor]

My memories of his team in LG 1 was- 

pass it out from GK, Moloney to flint, to Fontaine, to Cunningham, to Fontaine, to flint, to moloney, to pack, to flint, to Fontaine, to flint, to Fontaine, lump it forward to the channels (usually baldock chasing), lose the ball, concede, repeat above. 
 

We were heading 1 way, and that was down. 
 

Cotts rejuvenated that squad, and made us double winners. 
 

 

[eardun]

13 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Highlight of life under SOD by far

 

For some reason I’d forgotten John Ward was Rovers’ manager that night (second spell there)

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Since leaving us he’s enjoyed his new career as an academy coach. 
Robbo refers to his brief stint at Walsall but doesn’t highlight that he’s been employed as England u19’s manager, Liverpool assistant manager (appointed by Brendan Rodgers) and then moved on to academy coaching roles with Wolves and now Portsmouth. 
It won’t ever happen but if he was running our academy now I’d be delighted. 

 

Considering Paul Simpson was England under-20 manager for three seasons, you'll forgive me if I don't get over-excited over SOD's season overseeing the under-19s.

[RedRock]

41 minutes ago, nellie said:

if the opposition don't have the ball they don't score  

SoD, give in mate.

1% possession is enough for the opposition to win 1-0!
 

As often was the case. 

[Harry]

21 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Considering Paul Simpson was England under-20 manager for three seasons, you'll forgive me if I don't get over-excited over SOD's season overseeing the under-19s.

Not asking you to Robbo. But he’s done a fair bit more since leaving us than his short stint at Walsall that you referenced. 
As I replied to another poster, if he was heading up our academy I’d be very happy. 

[Taz]

If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have the infrastructure that we do now with the academy - something that was shockingly bad until quite recently (players did come through, but were largely the exception).

It's said that Pearson doesn't like the media, but SOD at times just looked like he couldn't care less for them and really didn't want to be doing the interviews etc.

We were in decline, confidence was rock bottom, that wasn't helped by his approach in the media - Flints price tag etc. Possibly warranted (considering form at the time), but not something that should have been said in public.

He's a very good coach though, his spell at Liverpool will tell you that!! 

I wasn't going to that many games at the time as I had moved away by then, but what you did see was not pretty at all, and this place at the time was pretty bad.

I stand to be corrected, but were there also rumblings that he told SL a few home truths about the club (aside from the academy stuff)?

We have a lot to be thankful to him for, especially when it comes to the infrastructure now in place, as I think he opened a lot of people's eyes at the time.

As a manager though - for us at least - not good.

[CyderInACan]

City v. Shrewsbury under his tenure was one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. He was sending us down, no doubt about it. 

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Not asking you to Robbo. But he’s done a fair bit more since leaving us than his short stint at Walsall that you referenced. 
As I replied to another poster, if he was heading up our academy I’d be very happy. 

Agreed, but not managed another club, which I think is significant.

At any rate, our U23s seem to be doing pretty well so I wouldn't want that set-up altered really.

[Fontaineofallknowledge]

I remember really enjoying his insightful programme notes, unfortunately he didn’t back it up on the pitch! Agree he had a bit of a shit sandwich with the finances/structure at the time though and also the football he played at Donny/Bournemouth. 
 

Also think he over complicated the game so Cotts was a breath of fresh air when he came in (despite me not being happy at the time!)

[Offside]

I was really pleased when SOD was appointed. We were in a mess following the McIness era   (similar to now) with some godawful players. SOD had been popular in his previous post at Nottingham Forest and I think their fans were peeved when their board ousted him. 
So my hopes were high.

I recall at first SOD made an impact with a couple of improved displays and results, but then performances worsened and we got relegated without a whimper. 

The following season was thoroughly depressing. Awful football, low crowds, and relegation looking likely. I can’t remember thinking he’d turn it around. 
 

I get the impression that SOD addressed things behind the scenes that needed sorting and laid the foundations for Cotts. But he never endeared himself to the fans with his gruff personality. Cotts injected a spirit into the team that had been lacking and was very galvanising. 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

City v. Shrewsbury under his tenure was one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. He was sending us down, no doubt about it. 

Could have picked one of loads of them, mate.

Remember us scraping draws at home to Oldham, Colchester & in his very final game Leyton Orient.

The crowds were dwindling, unless JET got on the ball the football was boring & we were dying on our arse.

He might be a good coach but I was convinced he was taking us to League Two.

[Red Skin]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Many will disagree with me, and I can perfectly well see their logic, but I was closely involved with Sean when he was here. 
He had huge challenges during his tenure. He had a large number of players he didn’t want, on large contracts that he couldn’t shift, he had players who had severe alcohol problems who were horrendously unfit. He had a limited budget, in fact, he didn’t really have a budget, he had to create his own by manoeuvring players out. He was on a remit to bring in youngsters, but knowing that pressure of results would still be his performance indicator (much like Nigel has intimated re not exposing youngsters in the wrong environment). He helped the academy project to achieve Cat 2. He had people in various roles (which our friend Ashton had assigned in his consultancy period) whom he had no idea who they were or what they were supposed to be doing (this relates largely to the recruitment analysts brought in). 
There were mistakes that he made, of course. And the football was often abject, so I can totally understand why people say he was an utter failure here, but believe me, as someone who had regular contact with him at the time, there were a mountain of problems he was dealing with and he had zero support from certain people at the club. 
I think, given time, he’d have turned things around, but I can absolutely see why many would not agree with that. 
Remember that Sean was responsible for assembling half of the promotion winning squad that is so much revered by many (Fielding, Flint, Williams, Pack, Wagstaff, Jet, as well as giving Reid & Bryan their first full stints and gradually introduced them). Yes, Cotts (and Burt) later added more of the right ingredients but Sean had laid the foundations for that squad. 

So yeah, lots of issues to resolve when here, laid some foundations for the future, but ultimately judged on results. I’m 100% certain that he’d have turned things around though as I know exactly what he was doing and what he was planning (along with Burt). 

Thanks for the insight @Harry.

I always felt Sean was going about things the right way - despite the performances - so good to hear this from someone that was close to him.  Sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards.   

I didn't realise MA was already infecting our club at that point. 

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Thanks for the insight @Harry.

I always felt Sean was going about things the right way - despite the performances - so good to hear this from someone that was close to him.  Sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards.   

I didn't realise MA was already infecting our club at that point. 

Oh hell yeah!! Mainly during McInnes’ time here. Helped build the overpaid, underperforming, demotivated, unfit squad that saw us relegated. Sound familiar?? 

[Davefevs]

Thanks for all the replies.

Got to say, Sheffield Utd (h) 0-1 was the worst match I’ve ever seen at AG.  Both sides were trying to be shitter than the other, topped off by a Flint og....and seeing Maguire for the first time, and starting to see why there might be a bit of fuss about him.

This was also pre-OTIB for me.....I may have re-opened some scars.  Sorry

[CyderInACan]

18 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Could have picked one of loads of them, mate.

Yup. That Shrewsbury one is the game that sticks in my mind tho. IIRC Nicky Shorey played for us and was so off the pace I felt sorry for him. We were doomed. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Yup. That Shrewsbury one is the game that sticks in my mind tho. IIRC Nicky Shorey played for us and was so off the pace I felt sorry for him. We were doomed. 

Shorey: was used to playing with better players who made angles for him.  Bobby Reid was the only one who did.  He looked a shadow of the Reading player who played for England v Brazil.

[ashton_fan]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks for all the replies.

Got to say, Sheffield Utd (h) 0-1 was the worst match I’ve ever seen at AG.  Both sides were trying to be shitter than the other, topped off by a Flint og....and seeing Maguire for the first time, and starting to see why there might be a bit of fuss about him.

This was also pre-OTIB for me.....I may have re-opened some scars.  Sorry

SO'D did some good things and had previously been successful in the Championship with Doncaster. I couldn't understand why our football was so slow and ponderous when his teams had played exciting attacking football when it was against us!

[Red Skin]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Oh hell yeah!! Mainly during McInnes’ time here. Helped build the overpaid, underperforming, demotivated, unfit squad that saw us relegated. Sound familiar?? 

How the **** did he manage to become CEO?  Shocking. 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Highlight of life under SOD by far

 

Yes.

What a shame he had to slag off the fans after the match. Almost as if he had no real concept of how important a derby game win, no matter what the competition is or what stage it’s at. Remember that we’d not long suffered the embarrassment of being, by FAR, the worst team in the Championship the season before.

The bloke was probably quite talented in the right circumstances but I think he was a nob.

 

 

[Alex_BCFC]

I doubt we’d have gone up the next season like we did but I think he laid some of the foundations for Cotteril and we would have been ok that season. The last 5 or 6 games he had started to get results and form was improving - 9 points from 6 games. 

[Midlands Robin]

The Walsall situation was really strange. When Dean Smith left they were in 4th, 3 points off first with a game in hand. 

After a brief caretaker spell SO'D took over and after 8 games and only one defeat they were second and 1 point off the top.

Then, all of a sudden, they blew up.

The next six games saw 3 draws, 3 defeats, 3 goals scored and 9 conceeded and suddenly they were back in 4th and 5 points off the autos and SO'D was gone.

All the talk up here at the time was that the dip in form had a part to play in his sacking but he had a massive falling out with the staff at the club. It may have been with some of the players as well but I can't recall.

I do remember when he left it was certainly rejoiced up here.

Bless 'em. I looked back at that time to refresh my memory and found this comment after SO'Ds last game incharge:

Analysis: BBC WM 95.6's Richard Wilford

"It's a decisive move from Walsall to relieve Sean O'Driscoll of his duties only three months in. But it really wasn't working out.

"Also the Saddlers are making the change when there's still a chance of promotion - even automatic isn't out of question.

"We could well see existing coaching staff carrying the club forward for rest of season under the canny eye of John Ward.

On a slightly different note, I sat on an interview panel last week and part of the requirement was for candidates to give a 10 minute presentation. One lad chose to do "The history of Walsall F.C." It was quite funny when he got to the part about Walsall's first ever visit to Wembley in 2015. He had a nice picture of our old badge on his PowerPoint so marks for that.

[bpexile]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Many will disagree with me, and I can perfectly well see their logic, but I was closely involved with Sean when he was here. 
He had huge challenges during his tenure. He had a large number of players he didn’t want, on large contracts that he couldn’t shift, he had players who had severe alcohol problems who were horrendously unfit. He had a limited budget, in fact, he didn’t really have a budget, he had to create his own by manoeuvring players out. He was on a remit to bring in youngsters, but knowing that pressure of results would still be his performance indicator (much like Nigel has intimated re not exposing youngsters in the wrong environment). He helped the academy project to achieve Cat 2. He had people in various roles (which our friend Ashton had assigned in his consultancy period) whom he had no idea who they were or what they were supposed to be doing (this relates largely to the recruitment analysts brought in). 
There were mistakes that he made, of course. And the football was often abject, so I can totally understand why people say he was an utter failure here, but believe me, as someone who had regular contact with him at the time, there were a mountain of problems he was dealing with and he had zero support from certain people at the club. 
I think, given time, he’d have turned things around, but I can absolutely see why many would not agree with that. 
Remember that Sean was responsible for assembling half of the promotion winning squad that is so much revered by many (Fielding, Flint, Williams, Pack, Wagstaff, Jet, as well as giving Reid & Bryan their first full stints and gradually introduced them). Yes, Cotts (and Burt) later added more of the right ingredients but Sean had laid the foundations for that squad. 

So yeah, lots of issues to resolve when here, laid some foundations for the future, but ultimately judged on results. I’m 100% certain that he’d have turned things around though as I know exactly what he was doing and what he was planning (along with Burt). 

As always there's only so much that we get to hear about, it's good to hear your take on SOD being involved because all we saw was the dire football. As I said there's always stuff going on that we don't know about & sadly SOD was left to sort things out.

His personality in the public eye was always against him & with the poor results he was always doomed to last long enough to turn things around.

Thanks for the insight.

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I was a bit of a part-timer through the GJ years to McIness and only started taking Joe during 13/14 (Peterborough 0-3 at home 1st game).

I was looking at results, both end of 12/13, when he started off well, then big losing run at end of season (relegated) that he carried into the League One campaign.  Having gone weeks and weeks without a win, he picked up a couple of wins (and 9pts in 5 games) before a terrible 0-1 at home to Sheffield Utd.

The rest is history.

I know a lot of us agree that he laid some foundations both in terms of infrastructure and players (and Keith Burt), that Cotts, and then LJ benefitted from.

For those of you regulars in 13/14, do any of you think the tide was turning?

GJ also started with a shocking start.

Cotts was far from stellar either, although nowhere near the extremes of GJ.

Is Pearson’s start in any way similar?  Just wondering if a poor start helps see the true issues that need resolving?

Yes Dave, SOD put so much in place behind the scenes from which we are benefitting now, he was on the verge of something before he was sacked, but what that was we will never know. You only have to look at the two roles he had after leaving us to realise his standing in the game - Liverpool snapped him up as their assistant manager, luring him away from a brill job as manager of England U19s - so he was obviously rated by lots of people who were high up in the game ... 

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

Yes.

What a shame he had to slag off the fans after the match. Almost as if he had no real concept of how important a derby game win, no matter what the competition is or what stage it’s at. Remember that we’d not long suffered the embarrassment of being, by FAR, the worst team in the Championship the season before.

The bloke was probably quite talented in the right circumstances but I think he was a nob.

 

I actually think the Rovers game was the beginning of the end for Sean. 
It was a mistake for him to berate the fans after this game and many would never forgive him for that. This was his biggest mistake in his time here. 
We’d had a very difficult start to the season, but the games were actually quite entertaining. Bradford, Cov, Wolves, MK, were all good games against strong sides that year, in which we were a tad unfortunate not to get much from. 
Sean’s last 6 games were won 2, drawn 3, lost 1 and, whilst that period had lacked in entertainment it was beginning to turn. 
I honestly think that he’d have been afforded a bit more time and patience by the fans had he not alienated himself with the comments after the Rovers game. He was never going to win back a lot of the fanbase after that and even if we’d won the next 5 he still wouldn’t have been forgiven. 
 

It’s actually something I spoke to Sean about and I think it’s one thing he didn’t really grasp the seriousness of. I think he figured it was just a few angry fans (like you’d get at any club), but I said that the context and given the opponent, wouldn’t sit well with a large proportion of fans, not just a few. 
It really was the one moment I’d look upon and say that was when the writing was on the wall for him. 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

I actually think the Rovers game was the beginning of the end for Sean. 
It was a mistake for him to berate the fans after this game and many would never forgive him for that. This was his biggest mistake in his time here. 
We’d had a very difficult start to the season, but the games were actually quite entertaining. Bradford, Cov, Wolves, MK, were all good games against strong sides that year, in which we were a tad unfortunate not to get much from. 
Sean’s last 6 games were won 2, drawn 3, lost 1 and, whilst that period had lacked in entertainment it was beginning to turn. 
I honestly think that he’d have been afforded a bit more time and patience by the fans had he not alienated himself with the comments after the Rovers game. He was never going to win back a lot of the fanbase after that and even if we’d won the next 5 he still wouldn’t have been forgiven. 
 

It’s actually something I spoke to Sean about and I think it’s one thing he didn’t really grasp the seriousness of. I think he figured it was just a few angry fans (like you’d get at any club), but I said that the context and given the opponent, wouldn’t sit well with a large proportion of fans, not just a few. 
It really was the one moment I’d look upon and say that was when the writing was on the wall for him. 

Fair comments.

I remember it was such a depressing 12 months up to that point (9 of which with him in charge, although we were in the bottom 3 by the time he arrived) and didn’t improve much afterwards until the few games before his dismissal. He just seemed so distant from the fan base, it was really hard to like him, I’m sure he felt equally frustrated.

Like I said, he was probably very good at his job but we were the wrong job at the wrong time IMO.

 

 

[Oh Louie louie]

If i remember rightly, we paid compo to walsall for his no2.

He had been around in the game.

He left in months, i cant recall what he said, but it was something like everything is wrong at the club.

That wouldnt have gone down well upstairs i imagine.

[Major Isewater]

Two points;

People say SOD was dour and had no ‘ personality ‘ which , to me , shows a lack of understanding or acceptance, perhaps he wasn’t ever the right ‘ fit ‘ for our ‘ supporters ‘.

SOD was the first head coach to treat us like adults and try to educate us, the fans, about football. 
 

He comes out of the debacle with more credit than the club for me.