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34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree NP not a cheque book manager but if we have some headroom, we'd be wise to use some of it. More normal injury situation would help a lot too.

Besides, a lot of good players out of contract this Summer at this level it seems, wonder if any loans from Watford possible given the Pearson connection. We don't have to spend a lot on fees this summer basically.

I am sure some will be spent - I expect to see two or maybe three quality players coming in - assuming no one he wants to keep leaves - the first questions I would ask about all the ooc players suggested is “Why is your club happy to see you go?” and “What makes you think it will work here if all you want is a big payday?”

To be fair some will pass that test - but I probably prefer players that a club wants to keep hold of.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I'd expect Coventry to come in for him. He was their best player the previous season with many of the same players they have now

Might depend what happens with Gustavo Hamer.

Personally I think Walsh will be here next season.

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51 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The logical way to look at recruitment and retention is first to ask who do we have to pay next season?

Then, what do we need in addition?

Thinking 'We look better with Weimann' isn't enough to take the option to give him an extra year. Nige needs to  be thinking is he what we need going forward? Can we do better and for less?

 

Personally, I wouldn't take the option to pay Weimann over £20k for 1 season. That would be insane.  I'd be thinking is he worth a 2/3 year deal on significantly less. Maybe £8k a week with a decent bonus linked to appearances. He could be a Mark Albrighton type player. But we must pay the going rate not just lazily overpay someone based on reputation..

Why would a player who is currently on £18k - £20k per week take a pay cut and accept £8k which is at the bottom end of the pay scale for Championship players? Contracts  are likely to be different next season, due to the COVID crisis, but I’m sure there will be clubs prepared to pay him more than £8k should he leave City. 

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9 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Why would a player who is currently on £18k - £20k per week take a pay cut and accept £8k which is at the bottom end of the pay scale for Championship players? Contracts  are likely to be different next season, due to the COVID crisis, but I’m sure there will be clubs prepared to pay him more than £8k should he leave City. 

I politely disagree. As I think Harry said earlier in this thread we  need to play financial hardball and the starting point would be with those we could retain.  I can see an approach where NP says this is the offer , we're not changing it, take it or leave it. It's there until x date.No negotiations. 

If a player can get a better offer then fair play to them.

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1 hour ago, The Bard said:

I politely disagree. As I think Harry said earlier in this thread we  need to play financial hardball and the starting point would be with those we could retain.  I can see an approach where NP says this is the offer , we're not changing it, take it or leave it. It's there until x date.No negotiations. 

If a player can get a better offer then fair play to them.

I can understand your logic of offering Weimann only £8k, but my point was why would he accept. I think he would follow your suggestion and get a better offer elsewhere. He’s an attacking midfield / wide player who puts a lot into each game and has a good goal return for his position. There would be a lot of clubs who would want to sign him, and he might be able to get a two year deal from another club, which would be better than a one year offer from City. 

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1 minute ago, pongo88 said:

I can understand your logic of offering Weimann only £8k, but my point was why would he accept. I think he would follow your suggestion and get a better offer elsewhere. He’s an attacking midfield / wide player who puts a lot into each game and has a good goal return for his position. There would be a lot of clubs who would want to sign him, and he might be able to get a two year deal from another club, which would be better than a one year offer from City. 

100%, the other big difference for me is Weimann can point to a superb availability record prior to this season when he had his first major injury, which looking at the footage from training, he already appears to be back from.

For me the only way he will accept a serious wage cut would be if we offered him 2 or 3 more years, but even then, he is going to walk if we try & get someone on a rumoured £18k a week to now accept £8k.

Half a dozen clubs at this level would sign him tomorrow if he’s available for free. I doubt many others out of contract would attract the same interest.

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8 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I can understand your logic of offering Weimann only £8k, but my point was why would he accept. I think he would follow your suggestion and get a better offer elsewhere. He’s an attacking midfield / wide player who puts a lot into each game and has a good goal return for his position. There would be a lot of clubs who would want to sign him, and he might be able to get a two year deal from another club, which would be better than a one year offer from City. 

He's one we're surely going to keep. As a wide player he offers a much better goals and assist record then anyone we have that can play there. Would probably be a good player to play up top with Wells 

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18 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

100%, the other big difference for me is Weimann can point to a superb availability record prior to this season when he had his first major injury, which looking at the footage from training, he already appears to be back from.

For me the only way he will accept a serious wage cut would be if we offered him 2 or 3 more years, but even then, he is going to walk if we try & get someone on a rumoured £18k a week to now accept £8k.

Half a dozen clubs at this level would sign him tomorrow if he’s available for free. I doubt many others out of contract would attract the same interest.

Yeah, if he’s on £18k now, you either take option and are committed to £18k p.w. for a year and then he can walk.  Best part of £1m.

He isn’t gonna accept 2 years at £9k imho.

Might you get him to accept £12k on a 3 year deal? Possibly, but he’s 30 in Aug, almost 33 by contract end.

Guess it depends what he thinks he might get elsewhere.

Once again, MA has left us in a piss-poor position.  The decision not to sort contracts last summer leaves the player in a strong position.  The year option is basically giving City no benefit whatsoever.  We should never get to the point where we have to use it, we should be making future decisions earlier.  It’s a cluster####.  SL needs to take responsibility for this too, it’s not just MA...he just made it worse by opening his gob.

Ditto Liam Walsh

Ditto Matty Taylor, Bailey Wright last summer (and summer before in reality).

The strategy cost us at least a couple of million on Eliasson.

I would really like to see NP and the new team sort out player futures before 12 months left (whether option or not).  Take the Peterborough approach, and move on any players you don’t want at 12 months left.

 

 

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17 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Loyalty ? No, I don't think fans can/are loyal as a whole. Mainly because any player could leave for any team, if it's one you hate then you'd not think well of them would you. If Pearson thinks him good enough great, if he doesn't my opinion counts for nothing anyway. My problem is mainly the fact a young player, on the back of a recent very good season in L1 was allowed to go OOC meaning we have nothing to come when he moves on. Very typical of recent times. If we would have got him signed, we would have got our money back, as it stands he could go on to have a fantastic career and be sold for millions (or not) and our short sightedness caused it.

That sort of goes on to my next point. No contracts will be offered was the word, oh except the biggest one ever to the bloke that looks like he's already on the beach. That treatment anywhere means you wont get the best from the workforce, in any walk of life, let alone one where commitment is key. 
I'm not convinced the players threw Holden under the Bus, but I do think some had almost given up after noises from Ashton made it obvious half the squad would be looking for jobs come the summer. The single worst piece of man management ever, and if he hadn't decided to leave I think he should have been sacked for that alone.

Agree 100%.

Could it be that Ipswich may be picking up some players for nothing in the near future ?

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Having given this a lot of thought I would look to keep Weimann, Walsh, Pato, Baker and possibly Hunt of the OOC players. I`d also have Sessegnon back if he wants to come. I`m not convinced by Lansbury or Simpson. I might have said to keep Watkins too (low wages, decent player when called upon and I though he might have been a `Pearson` type player) but it looks like he`s been told he`s off anyway.

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I would hope that Weimann stays and I think Baker is a NP type of player.

Paterson will have Championship options and should take one of them imo.

Not convinced at all by Sessegnon but I would keep the experienced Simpson and Hunt (although I think Hunt is off).

Lansbury is a good player and a full pre-season will do him the world of good, I'd certainly try to keep him.

Walsh ? Dunno, not seen him play really and we have other options so not bothered either way.

Mention for Tommy Rowe who has been excellent for us and hardly ever let us down, but time to bite the bullet and move on. I also think Nagy will move on and possibly Massengo.

So, I'd definitely keep Weimann, Lansbury, Hunt, and Simpson, exercise the one year option for the younger players, and let the others go. I suspect that some players under contract may also move on.

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Bard said:

I politely disagree. As I think Harry said earlier in this thread we  need to play financial hardball and the starting point would be with those we could retain.  I can see an approach where NP says this is the offer , we're not changing it, take it or leave it. It's there until x date.No negotiations. 

If a player can get a better offer then fair play to them.

Oh, come on, be yerself. Pretend we're all in the Hen after a dismal 0-2 v someone or other ....

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15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think there are / will be much better RB options than Hunt and Sessegnon this summer.

I'd like to think there is a better option than Hunt sitting at my keyboard now.

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1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Having given this a lot of thought I would look to keep ... Hunt

You gave it a lot of thought and still decided to keep Hunt, LR? Wow.
 

I could think for a week and still not think of a single reason to keep him. 

Edited by Rudolf Hucker
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44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think there are / will be much better RB options than Hunt and Sessegnon this summer.

I think Sessegnon has shown in patches, but overall not quite enough for me.

Like you say, there will be better options elsewhere.

 

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11 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

You gave it a lot of thought and still decided to keep Hunt, LR? Wow.
 

I could think for a week and still not think of a single reason to keep him. 

What if he leaves and we fail to get a RB into the club ? How long have we not had a left back, failed to get one in ?

I'd keep him, he aint the best but he's by no means the worst (in common with most of the squad) and, imo, there are more pressing areas to concentrate on in the first window of the season.  If the club have already got a RB lined up then Hunt or Simpson could leave. If not, they'd be stupid to let one or both go.

Edit - Sessegnon is behind both Simpson and Hunt imo.

Edited by bcfc01
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18 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

What if he leaves and we fail to get a RB into the club ? How long have we not had a left back, failed to get one in ?

I'd keep him, he aint the best but he's by no means the worst (in common with most of the squad) and, imo, there are more pressing areas to concentrate on in the first window of the season.  If the club have already got a RB lined up then Hunt or Simpson could leave. If not, they'd be stupid to let one or both go.

Edit - Sessegnon is behind both Simpson and Hunt imo.

It's a very different scenario to Hunt having 12 months left.  We have to offer him a new contract.  It's not really much different to recruiting a new player.  I'd rather we got someone else.  Imho, you're only kicking the can down the road, and stopping the build towards what you want.

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35 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

What if he leaves and we fail to get a RB into the club ? How long have we not had a left back, failed to get one in ?

I'd keep him, he aint the best but he's by no means the worst (in common with most of the squad) and, imo, there are more pressing areas to concentrate on in the first window of the season.  If the club have already got a RB lined up then Hunt or Simpson could leave. If not, they'd be stupid to let one or both go.

Edit - Sessegnon is behind both Simpson and Hunt imo.

I’ve been watching City for sixty years and we’ve had a succession of really excellent and memorable LBs but curiously, barely a RB worthy of note. To me, Hunt and Sessignon are the latest in that long list of underwhelming City RBs.
 

I most definitely would not retain Hunt. If we can’t do better, I’ll be amazed. 

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31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It's a very different scenario to Hunt having 12 months left.  We have to offer him a new contract.  It's not really much different to recruiting a new player.  I'd rather we got someone else.  Imho, you're only kicking the can down the road, and stopping the build towards what you want.

I'd rather we got someone better if possible, but my fear is we could end up in the same situation as left back. We need some insurance so Simpson or Hunt. To get rid of both could set us back.

I don't see it as kicking the can down the road, we aint going to get a squad worthy of challenging at the top in one window. An extension for Hunt or Simpson is prudent imo.

 

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39 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I’ve been watching City for sixty years and we’ve had a succession of really excellent and memorable LBs but curiously, barely a RB worthy of note. To me, Hunt and Sessignon are the latest in that long list of underwhelming City RBs.
 

I most definitely would not retain Hunt. If we can’t do better, I’ll be amazed. 

I like you Rudolf, but this “never had a decent RB” stuff really is such a myth.

Bradley Orr? In the Championship team of the season when we made the playoff final. Louis Carey? before he switched over to CB.
Mad Benny played Jim Brennan there with Bell at LB & he was excellent. Personally I rated Adam Locke, too.

You go back longer than me but Norman Hunter once said that Gerry Sweeney was the most underrated player he ever played with, The Sween did all 4 seasons in the top flight, he was good, perhaps not “Ritchie or Gow good”, but plenty good enough to mark the best players in the country..

Edited by GrahamC
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I was not MA's biggest critic on here but what the hell was he thinking clustering this contract mess into one summer? I suppose Holden probably wanted time to evaluate who he wanted to keep but still it seems strange to have close to 1/3 of the squad being punted in one summer.

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19 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

I was not MA's biggest critic on here but what the hell was he thinking clustering this contract mess into one summer? I suppose Holden probably wanted time to evaluate who he wanted to keep but still it seems strange to have close to 1/3 of the squad being punted in one summer.

I can't believe that decisions like that are made by the head coach. I think it's more likely that the edict either came from the owner, maybe under MA's influence, or MA himself with the owners (tacit) approval. It's like putting your hand in the fire jsut to prove to yourself that you'll get burned, even though you already know that everyone in history whose done that, did.

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24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I like you Rudolf, but this “never had a decent RB” stuff really is such a myth.

Bradley Orr? In the Championship team of the season when we made the playoff final. Louis Carey? before he switched over to CB.
Mad Benny played Jim Brennan there with Bell at LB & he was excellent. Personally I rated Adam Locke, too.

You go back longer than me but Norman Hunter once said that Gerry Sweeney was the most underrated player he ever played with, The Sween did all 4 seasons in the top flight, he was good, perhaps not “Ritchie or Gow good”, but plenty good enough to mark the best players in the country..

Sweeney is the best RB we’ve ever had, imo Graham and I rated him highly. Donnie Gillies was decent there too. Orr was one of the better ones, for sure - good defensively, though to me, lacked pace which was his biggest shortcoming. Liked Paul Stevens and certainly rated Brennan. Llewellyn was as hard as nails, could win the ball but then didn’t know what to do with it! Carey was a far better CB than RB, again imo. 
 

I’m sure I’ve missed some others but my point is that, think LB and you can immediately recall top class players such as Drysdale, Bell,  Scott, Brennan, Cooper, Hill, Cunningham, McAllister, Bryan, DaSilva yet we’ve a far shorter list of memorable RBs. 

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2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

What if he leaves and we fail to get a RB into the club ? How long have we not had a left back, failed to get one in ?

I'd keep him, he aint the best but he's by no means the worst (in common with most of the squad) and, imo, there are more pressing areas to concentrate on in the first window of the season.  If the club have already got a RB lined up then Hunt or Simpson could leave. If not, they'd be stupid to let one or both go.

Edit - Sessegnon is behind both Simpson and Hunt imo.

I would say RB has been a problem area for a while and Hunt hasn’t pulled up any trees in his time here 

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