marcofisher Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Just now, Superjack said: We need a whole new look defence in my opinion. Hard to disagree. Realistically speaking, upgrading at right back and bringing a good ball plying centre back to play next to Kalas and Dasilva would be the most likely and best course of action. it’s not like other areas of the pitch don’t need investment too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Just now, marcofisher said: Hard to disagree. Realistically speaking, upgrading at right back and bringing a good ball plying centre back to play next to Kalas and Dasilva would be the most likely and best course of action. it’s not like other areas of the pitch don’t need investment too... We need a dominant spine. By recruiting players with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Just for sake of argument if we started next season with something like this (not necessarily my choices, using others too): Bentley Nyambe / Ostigard / Kalas / Dasilva Weimann / Williams / Walsh / O’Dowda (maybe in a bit of a diamond) Wells / Yates Subs: O’Leary / new RB / new CB / Massengo / Bakinson / Semenyo / Martin (assumes we are back to 7 subs) So 3 new signings, 5 returning injured players. It looks nothing like as bad or desperate as we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said: I hope we replace Baker. Frankly I'm not that impressed with Kalas of late. Not at all falls over goes down like a ton of bricks when challenged for the size of him really gone down hill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Just for sake of argument if we started next season with something like this (not necessarily my choices, using others too): Bentley Nyambe / Ostigard / Kalas / Dasilva Weimann / Williams / Walsh / O’Dowda (maybe in a bit of a diamond) Wells / Yates Subs: O’Leary / new RB / new CB / Massengo / Bakinson / Semenyo / Martin (assumes we are back to 7 subs) So 3 new signings, 5 returning injured players. It looks nothing like as bad or desperate as we think. Think Vyner has done enough this season to be around the squad & watching the gutless efforts of our defenders today, I expect Robbie Cundy thinks he does, too. We clearly need to bring in a right back & centre back though & also have some thinking to do at left back, because expecting Dasilva to suddenly play 40 games when he usually can’t manage more than 30 is optimistic. Rowe is surely getting released & neither Pring or Nurse have much experience, even in League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, GrahamC said: Think Vyner has done enough this season to be around the squad & watching the gutless efforts of our defenders today, I expect Robbie Cundy thinks he does, too. We clearly need to bring in a right back & centre back though & also have some thinking to do at left back, because expecting Dasilva to suddenly play 40 games when he usually can’t manage more than 30 is optimistic. Rowe is surely getting released & neither Pring or Nurse have much experience, even in League One. My bad....I like Vyner, he’d be a regular match day squad member, starting on on the bench. I’d really like to see him at RB. Had a season there in 18/19 in a struggling Millers side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Davefevs said: My bad....I like Vyner, he’d be a regular match day squad member, starting on on the bench. I’d really like to see him at RB. Had a season there in 18/19 in a struggling Millers side. That’s literally his ceiling. Struggling championship side. Give me all the stats in the world but he is miles off what we need to become a top 6 / promotion club. People talk about him like he’s up and coming youngster it’s ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Superjack said: Nobody is that bad. Nobody. Oh god... that game against Coventry at Northampton’s ground. Possibly the worst performance I’ve ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydneybcfc Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Bs4Red said: That’s literally his ceiling. Struggling championship side. Give me all the stats in the world but he is miles off what we need to become a top 6 / promotion club. People talk about him like he’s up and coming youngster it’s ridiculous Centrebacks hit their peak around 27, Vyner is 23. To be a lower level championship centreback at his age means he's likely to get better. If you're a top championship centreback at 23 you're destined to play prem football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelksRed Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Superjack said: We need a whole new look defence in my opinion. Agreed...one that isn't as leaky as my kitchen sieve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 There’s no way Baker earns another contract with us. Be interesting to see where he ends up though - what level etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Sydneybcfc said: Centrebacks hit their peak around 27, Vyner is 23. To be a lower level championship centreback at his age means he's likely to get better. If you're a top championship centreback at 23 you're destined to play prem football. I'd like to see him work on his leg and upper body strength a lot over the summer. I think if he was stronger he would be a top championship defender, he seems to have everything else just needs to be able to bully strikers a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Superjack said: We need a whole new look defence in my opinion. We just need a defence in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 18 hours ago, nickolas said: I’d sign him up but prob have to be 50% wage cut. Hes not as injured as everyone makes out but its hardly surprising as he dives at everything! This years injury doesnt count as weve had a shocker with the whole club this year! There was a thread about Baker’s injuries approx 18 months ago. I can’t remember the exact details but, at that stage, he’d gone off injured approx 16 times in the first half, at half time or within 10 minutes of the start of the second half. In the 4 years he’s been here he’s only played 84 matches and hasn’t managed to finish approx 20% of them. To me, that’s an awful injury record. For any player injuries and injury recovery are usually worse as they get older, and it’s not going to be any different with Baker Offering him 50% of his wages is a strange logic. It’s like saying I could pay £20k for a reliable car, but my friend has an unreliable old banger for sale at £10k. I’m going to buy that because I magically believe it’s suddenly going to stop breaking down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Fordy62 said: Oh god... that game against Coventry at Northampton’s ground. Possibly the worst performance I’ve ever seen. Aaaarggghhhhh...the memories...<<rips out own brain>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Bs4Red said: That’s literally his ceiling. Struggling championship side. Give me all the stats in the world but he is miles off what we need to become a top 6 / promotion club. People talk about him like he’s up and coming youngster it’s ridiculous But as it stands we are a bottom half / bottom 8 team....and we are going on a journey to becoming top 6. Zak can play a part in that, he might go all the way with us, he might fall by the wayside. But he’s part of that journey for now. Skilled recruitment might eventually deem him surplus to requirements. Skilled coaching and man-management might see him improve. Not at peak years for a CB yet. But he’s been one of our better players this season. Got areas of his game to work on undoubtedly, but to use 2-3 seasons ago to decide his ceiling is a bit premature isn’t it (when he was 21). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Davefevs said: But as it stands we are a bottom half / bottom 8 team....and we are going on a journey to becoming top 6. Zak can play a part in that, he might go all the way with us, he might fall by the wayside. But he’s part of that journey for now. Skilled recruitment might eventually deem him surplus to requirements. Skilled coaching and man-management might see him improve. Not at peak years for a CB yet. But he’s been one of our better players this season. Got areas of his game to work on undoubtedly, but to use 2-3 seasons ago to decide his ceiling is a bit premature isn’t it (when he was 21). I don’t think he’s been any better for us this season than he was for them in honesty. Hes ridden with mistakes all year but gets an easy ride as a home grown lad. If you base him v kelly and I understand not the best comparison but if you think how good kelly was at 18/19. Zak is so far behind. It’s just a personal preference as a CB I don’t think he has the qualities to be a really good championship player. I understand your sentiment but in the long run if our aspirations are premier league he cannot be a part of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Sydneybcfc said: Centrebacks hit their peak around 27, Vyner is 23. To be a lower level championship centreback at his age means he's likely to get better. If you're a top championship centreback at 23 you're destined to play prem football. So is the clubs aspirations Premier League football or no? Lloyd Kelly is a good example of young footballers we should have to look at premier league football. Vyner is so so far behind Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 20 hours ago, MarcusX said: It’s true, his availability is actually better than most. You sure, M? In 5 seasons here, he's played 120 games. That suggests he was only fit about 50% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 19 hours ago, Davefevs said: Just for sake of argument if we started next season with something like this (not necessarily my choices, using others too): Bentley Nyambe / Ostigard / Kalas / Dasilva Weimann / Williams / Walsh / O’Dowda (maybe in a bit of a diamond) Wells / Yates Subs: O’Leary / new RB / new CB / Massengo / Bakinson / Semenyo / Martin (assumes we are back to 7 subs) So 3 new signings, 5 returning injured players. It looks nothing like as bad or desperate as we think. Massengo first name on the team sheet for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 14 hours ago, Bs4Red said: That’s literally his ceiling. Struggling championship side. Give me all the stats in the world but he is miles off what we need to become a top 6 / promotion club. People talk about him like he’s up and coming youngster it’s ridiculous I remember people saying the same about Bobby Reid. Give the lad a chance to develop into his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 6 hours ago, Davefevs said: But as it stands we are a bottom half / bottom 8 team....and we are going on a journey to becoming top 6. Zak can play a part in that, he might go all the way with us, he might fall by the wayside. But he’s part of that journey for now. Skilled recruitment might eventually deem him surplus to requirements. Skilled coaching and man-management might see him improve. Not at peak years for a CB yet. But he’s been one of our better players this season. Got areas of his game to work on undoubtedly, but to use 2-3 seasons ago to decide his ceiling is a bit premature isn’t it (when he was 21). Saved me writing this. We are statistically the worst team in the division in 2021, so thinking the next transfer window is suddenly going to transform us into a top six/promotion side is ridiculously optimistic. Vyner is a good player with plenty of time left at 23 to improve further. When Pearson was talking about making use of what he has, Zak is the sort of player he’s talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said: Massengo first name on the team sheet for me. Definitely gonna be a part of a group that are regularly selected. The team above was mainly to show that the midfield could be completely different (from within existing squad), not necessarily what I’d pick. Then again, I’m not one who picks a “best eleven., too many variables! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Pezo said: I'd like to see him work on his leg and upper body strength a lot over the summer. I think if he was stronger he would be a top championship defender, he seems to have everything else just needs to be able to bully strikers a bit more. "A bit more"? Just starting to bully them would be nice. Because I agree 100%, that's exactly what he needs to be doing. What he lacks is a tough, nasty edge. And personally, I don't think you find that by working on your physique in the gym. You find it in a player's mentality, personality - you've either got it or you haven't and I've yet to see evidence Vyner has it. Excellent athlete, decent technique, soft between the ears. What our current team desperately lacks is winners. Hard-nosed, driven individuals are what we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: You sure, M? In 5 seasons here, he's played 120 games. That suggests he was only fit about 50% of the time. It’s 132 by my reckoning? He missed a large part of the season with Kalas / Webster on selection, he was available. He was dropped by LJ a few times for several games in a row, nothing to do with injury. I’ve posted it before, a lot of the games he hasn’t played he’s been an unused sub. There’s only about 20-30 games where he’s not been in the squad at all before this season and I can’t find any record or news article of them being injuries. Potentially a few were knocks and niggles but there hasn’t been any long period he’s been unavailable before this season. Second or third highest appearances last season behind Weimann and Bentley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: "A bit more"? Just starting to bully them would be nice. Because I agree 100%, that's exactly what he needs to be doing. What he lacks is a tough, nasty edge. And personally, I don't think you find that by working on your physique in the gym. You find it in a player's mentality, personality - you've either got it or you haven't and I've yet to see evidence Vyner has it. Excellent athlete, decent technique, soft between the ears. What our current team desperately lacks is winners. Hard-nosed, driven individuals are what we need. I think he has a bit more about him than you give him credit for he just doesn't have the strength to enact it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 Can't say I've seen evidence of it myself. Is this a gut feeling you have or can you point to specific examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 50 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: "A bit more"? Just starting to bully them would be nice. Because I agree 100%, that's exactly what he needs to be doing. What he lacks is a tough, nasty edge. And personally, I don't think you find that by working on your physique in the gym. You find it in a player's mentality, personality - you've either got it or you haven't and I've yet to see evidence Vyner has it. Excellent athlete, decent technique, soft between the ears. What our current team desperately lacks is winners. Hard-nosed, driven individuals are what we need. He needs to see what it’s like to “go through” his opponent, realise that it will make his opponent wary of their next touch, and therefore his afternoon becomes easier as a result. On an aside, Billy Mitchell let Alex Scott know what Championship football was about within 1 minute of being subbed on. You can genuinely get away with one loose tackle with most refs, especially early on. Doesn’t have to be rash, studs up, etc...just enough to put your opponent in his place. Obviously need to choose where you do it. As a CB you’ll normally get a chance somewhere around the halfway line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: You sure, M? In 5 seasons here, he's played 120 games. That suggests he was only fit about 50% of the time. Can’t be bothered to post it all again, he’s been an unused sub a lot especially in the Webster season. It works out only about 20 games max he could have missed through injury before this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Can’t be bothered to post it all again, he’s been an unused sub a lot especially in the Webster season. It works out only about 20 games max he could have missed through injury before this season I admire your persistence, I actually agree with you....but you won’t change many OTIBers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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