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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He needs to see what it’s like to “go through” his opponent, realise that it will make his opponent wary of their next touch, and therefore his afternoon becomes easier as a result.

On an aside, Billy Mitchell let Alex Scott know what Championship football was about within 1 minute of being subbed on.  You can genuinely get away with one loose tackle with most refs, especially early on.  Doesn’t have to be rash, studs up, etc...just enough to put your opponent in his place.  Obviously need to choose where you do it.  As a CB you’ll normally get a chance somewhere around the halfway line!

Administer a few "reducers" in your time, Dave? ?

But in all seriousness, it's good to read you saying that as I was thinking much the same but decided not to post it - thought someone would immediately say "you can't tackle like that anymore" or some such comment.  

I hope Vyner can add this to his game. He's got most other things. 

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28 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Administer a few "reducers" in your time, Dave? ?

But in all seriousness, it's good to read you saying that as I was thinking much the same but decided not to post it - thought someone would immediately say "you can't tackle like that anymore" or some such comment.  

I hope Vyner can add this to his game. He's got most other things. 

No, not really....but I was committed in the challenge, either on the deck or in the air.

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He's a very good centre half at this level, a ball winning defender in the mould of what we need.

He does have questions about his availability though.

A lot will depend on what budget we have to strengthen key areas and if money is as tight as I expect it to be then maybe a deal on reasonable wages could be offered if we need to spend on other areas..

wouldn't be unhappy if he signs on for the right deal both for him and the club.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I admire your persistence, I actually agree with you....but you won’t change many OTIBers ???

It’s just one of those things that gets said enough that it’s believed and then repeated.

That said, I wouldn’t be disappointed if he’s moved on and someone better brought in. I really liked Mawson but he’s out of our price range I think and his injury is a concern if it’s re-occurred as it was a serious one.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

It’s 132 by my reckoning?

He missed a large part of the season with Kalas / Webster on selection, he was available. He was dropped by LJ a few times for several games in a row, nothing to do with injury.

 

Second or third highest appearances last season behind Weimann and Bentley

That last bit isn’t true.

He made 34 appearances last season (33 starts).

Weimann made 45, Bentley 43, Diedhiou 41, Eliasson 37, Hunt 35. Ashley Williams also started 32 despite not being with the club for the first 5 games of the season & then being sent off twice.

He missed 12 games last season, 43 this, he is on stupid money, get rid & bring in someone cheaper & who hasn’t missed 55 out of the last 92.

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5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Can’t be bothered to post it all again, he’s been an unused sub a lot especially in the Webster season. It works out only about 20 games max he could have missed through injury before this season

 

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I admire your persistence, I actually agree with you....but you won’t change many OTIBers ???

 

How many games did he start but not finish though?

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9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

It’s just one of those things that gets said enough that it’s believed and then repeated.

That said, I wouldn’t be disappointed if he’s moved on and someone better brought in. I really liked Mawson but he’s out of our price range I think and his injury is a concern if it’s re-occurred as it was a serious one.

If Fulham can get Mawson fit and playing like he was for us in first few games, and they can keep Tosin, that is a very high quality Championship back two. (Big IF on both those). Losing Mawson was huge this season - quality defender, leader, baller and brought confidence to the team. Sliding doors moment when he got that first injury - more so than the Weimann I think. 

On Baker - understand why people are hesitant but, if we can get him on the right deal (pay as you play totally unrealistic imo but clearly he can't be on what he was on pre-pandemic) then he is pretty much as good a ball-winning CB as we can attract at this level. So I'd love to see him get a deal. Unsure it will happen for obvious reasons.  

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9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Best defender we’ve got, loads of premier league experience, we are lucky to have him ... top geezer, make him skipper ... 

But while I agree about his experience, he is not a leader or on pitch organiser. 

Not saying don't keep him but central defenders, central midfielders and also the goalkeeper, need to be the organisers of the side.

Lack of communication on pitch is one of our biggest problems. So for that reason alone, I would try to find others, who may be slightly lower quality but who improve the "togetherness" factor in the squad.

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On 01/05/2021 at 14:40, nickolas said:

...This years injury doesnt count as weve had a shocker with the whole club this year!

He 30 now so I think recent ling term injuries must be taken into account even if Rolls was involved.

12 hours ago, MarcusX said:

It’s 132 by my reckoning?

He missed a large part of the season with Kalas / Webster on selection, he was available. He was dropped by LJ a few times for several games in a row, nothing to do with injury.

I’ve posted it before, a lot of the games he hasn’t played he’s been an unused sub. There’s only about 20-30 games where he’s not been in the squad at all before this season and I can’t find any record or news article of them being injuries. Potentially a few were knocks and niggles but there hasn’t been any long period he’s been unavailable before this season.

Second or third highest appearances last season behind Weimann and Bentley

If the defence of Baker is "he was dropped a lot, actually" then we definitely need to get rid!

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Baker will get a deal IMO, Pearson rates him. A Baker -Kalas central defence when both are 'match fit' would be as good as anything in the second tier. Likewise, if Pearson wanted a back three, a Baker - Kalas - Vyner back three would be solid.

We have a number of signings we need to make, to let Baker go would mean we would need another expensive experienced centre half.

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58 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

But while I agree about his experience, he is not a leader or on pitch organiser. 

Not saying don't keep him but central defenders, central midfielders and also the goalkeeper, need to be the organisers of the side.

Lack of communication on pitch is one of our biggest problems. So for that reason alone, I would try to find others, who may be slightly lower quality but who improve the "togetherness" factor in the squad.

I think Baker is an organiser.

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4 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Baker will get a deal IMO, Pearson rates him. A Baker -Kalas central defence when both are 'match fit' would be as good as anything in the second tier. Likewise, if Pearson wanted a back three, a Baker - Kalas - Vyner back three would be solid.

We have a number of signings we need to make, to let Baker go would mean we would need another expensive experienced centre half.

Of course time will tell (probably next Wednesday) but I genuinely don’t think that he will get offered a contract.

As for Pearson rating him, what is that based on? Picking him v Millwall? As giving O’Leary a game then showed, he is just looking at what he has.

You are right about the last part, we do need an experienced centre half, but why does that mean they would need to be expensive?

Both Luton’s first choices this season are out of contract (Bradley & Pearson) they won’t be earning half what Baker does & have just played full seasons in a side that has done far better than us. Players at clubs like Rotherham, Millwall, Coventry & Wycombe (who have all defended far better than us this season) are realistic options but at £8k, not £18k.

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4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Of course time will tell (probably next Wednesday) but I genuinely don’t think that he will get offered a contract.

As for Pearson rating him, what is that based on? Picking him v Millwall? As giving O’Leary a game then showed, he is just looking at what he has.

You are right about the last part, we do need an experienced centre half, but why does that mean they would need to be expensive?

Both Luton’s first choices this season are out of contract (Bradley & Pearson) they won’t be earning half what Baker does & have just played full seasons in a side that has done far better than us. Players at clubs like Rotherham, Millwall, Coventry & Wycombe (who have all defended far better than us this season) are realistic options but at £8k, not £18k.

Imho, “experienced” doesn’t have to be 28+ (or whatever age you decide).  If you can find the right player, age / experience doesn’t matter.

Look at Steven Caulker.

I just want good players.  Ostigard at 21 would be good alongside Kalas for example.

Back to Baker.  I thought that if you could get 10 games out of him this season you’d have a decision to make, if he impressed.  But I can’t see that happening.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Imho, “experienced” doesn’t have to be 28+ (or whatever age you decide).  If you can find the right player, age / experience doesn’t matter.

Look at Steven Caulker.

I just want good players.  Ostigard at 21 would be good alongside Kalas for example.

Back to Baker.  I thought that if you could get 10 games out of him this season you’d have a decision to make, if he impressed.  But I can’t see that happening.

Totally agree on both counts, despite Baker playing v Millwall I would be very surprised if that was with a view to keeping him, Pearson selected a very experienced back 5 (for all the good it did us) to try & get a result. Few expect Hunt to be kept on & yet he started.

Your Caulker point is a good one, the Leicester lad on loan at Wycombe (Knight) is 23 & out of contract, he might be the “type” we are after, what is certainly the case is that we need some stronger individuals around the squad, especially at the back & in midfield.

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7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

How many games did he start but not finish though?

Apparently he's not managed to complete 1 in 4 of the 85 games he's started in the last 4 seasons.

 

11 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Best defender we’ve got, loads of premier league experience, we are lucky to have him ... top geezer, make him skipper ... 

He made 79 appearances in 5 seasons for Villa.

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8 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

15/16 season - City on loan

36 starts - Off 8 times

16/17 season - Villa in Championship

32 league starts - Off 4 times

2 cup starts - Off 1 time

17/18 season - City permanent

34 league starts - Off 6 times

18/19 season

16 starts - Off 4 times

1 FA cup start - Off 1 time

19/20 season

34 starts - Off 5 times

20/21 season

1 start - Off 0 times. Injured for 43 games

Good grief and goodbye.

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A lot had been said about Bakers availability/mindset.

Has anyone actually thought that Pearson may actually bring someone in like a sports psychologist, along with the new medical team?

Maybe, a new manager with a new outlook and new ideas, brings the best out of Baker, and helps him get over the "niggly" injuries, which may or may not cause bigger issues.

I think it has been suggested before, but some of Bakers issues could be him thinking they are worse than they are, due to previous issues.

I wouldn't be against him staying on, as on his day he is one of the better defenders in the league.

He would probably be lucky to get the same terms here (possibly anywhere else), but when I think about releasing him, I get the same feeling as I did about Korey Smith. Look what happened to him when he wasn't under Rolls' watchful eye.....

Additional year with guaranteed further year (and wage increase) if he reaches x amount of games next season?

You just know if he goes somewhere else with a decent medical team, he goes on to play in the Premiership again...

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14 minutes ago, Taz said:

A lot had been said about Bakers availability/mindset.

Has anyone actually thought that Pearson may actually bring someone in like a sports psychologist, along with the new medical team?

Maybe, a new manager with a new outlook and new ideas, brings the best out of Baker, and helps him get over the "niggly" injuries, which may or may not cause bigger issues.

 

Easy to slag off LJ but remember being told that he suggested exactly this to Baker to try to get to the bottom of this issue & Baker flatly refused to co-operate.

Pretty sure if arose after a game that Baker went off inside 20 minutes (hard to recall which one that was) yet the scan showed no issues at all.

To me he simply doesn’t trust his body & there is no way around that.

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My thoughts about Bakes are that he can be - on his day - a really solid defender. Not a 9.5 out of 10, like Webster, but a 7.5 out of 10.

He's never had very good distribution and he's getting slower and slower, but he's usually in the right place and he is hard to get past. He doesn't stand off. He wins headers. 

He's an average Championship defender and right now we only seem to have below average defenders.

Whichever way you slice it, his availability record has not been good. Two really lengthy injuries, multiple small knocks.

Pearson has a hell of a lot of recruitment to do in the summer, and not all the recruitment can be cut-price gems. We are going to have to spend.

If Baker can be replaced with another 7.5 out of 10 defender who has had fewer injury worries than we should do it - budget providing.

If we can't, then I'm not going to be worried if he stays here on a 12-month contract. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Taz said:

A lot had been said about Bakers availability/mindset.

Has anyone actually thought that Pearson may actually bring someone in like a sports psychologist, along with the new medical team?

Maybe, a new manager with a new outlook and new ideas, brings the best out of Baker, and helps him get over the "niggly" injuries, which may or may not cause bigger issues.

I think it has been suggested before, but some of Bakers issues could be him thinking they are worse than they are, due to previous issues.

I wouldn't be against him staying on, as on his day he is one of the better defenders in the league.

He would probably be lucky to get the same terms here (possibly anywhere else), but when I think about releasing him, I get the same feeling as I did about Korey Smith. Look what happened to him when he wasn't under Rolls' watchful eye.....

Additional year with guaranteed further year (and wage increase) if he reaches x amount of games next season?

You just know if he goes somewhere else with a decent medical team, he goes on to play in the Premiership again...

This guy was brought in.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-bristol-city-look-find-3369374

I met him at CHSW.  Don’t believe he is still at club.

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Easy to slag off LJ but remember being told that he suggested exactly this to Baker to try to get to the bottom of this issue & Baker flatly refused to co-operate.

Pretty sure if arose after a game that Baker went off inside 20 minutes (hard to recall which one that was) yet the scan showed no issues at all.

To me he simply doesn’t trust his body & there is no way around that.

Nope, it’s horrible if that is the case.

Did you ever hear the Michael Owen interview where he admitted he was so fearful of tearing his hamstring (again) he stopped making runs (in behind) that would mean he’d have to stretch his legs.  That totally affected his game.

I don’t think we should offer him a deal, but I think including this season’s injuries to prove availability is unnecessary.  Just look at the injuries, recurrences during games, recurrences during rehab for so many players.  You can judge Baker without adding this seasons record in.  This season is borderline being a case for suing the club I’d imagine.  If the likes of COD, etc break down again in pre-season, next season, you’d question whether the medical team have caused irreparable damage.  I hope not.

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My view on whether we keep Baker comes down to other factors:

I feel we need five centre backs next season and that three of them should be a new dominant centre back we use a good chunk of budget on with one of Kalas or Vyner playing alongside him and the other as main back up. I also think Cundy deserves a chance to be part of the squad.

It then comes down to Baker, Moore or someone else entirely and I feel the key questions are:

1) can we get either a good fee for Moore or someone to cover his wages on loan? If not, pragmatism means we keep Moore

2) if we can move Moore on, is there a free signing who we are certain we can sign who would be happy to be a back up and would be a more adept back up than Baker?

If no, I think we offer him another year 

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

This season is borderline being a case for suing the club I’d imagine.  If the likes of COD, etc break down again in pre-season, next season, you’d question whether the medical team have caused irreparable damage.  I hope not.

I have the same concern and mentioned this somewhere else.

I hope we see the likes of Williams and Walsh in pre-season, just to allay any fears if nothing else.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

This guy was brought in.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-bristol-city-look-find-3369374

I met him at CHSW.  Don’t believe he is still at club.

Nope, it’s horrible if that is the case.

Did you ever hear the Michael Owen interview where he admitted he was so fearful of tearing his hamstring (again) he stopped making runs (in behind) that would mean he’d have to stretch his legs.  That totally affected his game.

I don’t think we should offer him a deal, but I think including this season’s injuries to prove availability is unnecessary.  Just look at the injuries, recurrences during games, recurrences during rehab for so many players.  You can judge Baker without adding this seasons record in.  This season is borderline being a case for suing the club I’d imagine.  If the likes of COD, etc break down again in pre-season, next season, you’d question whether the medical team have caused irreparable damage.  I hope not.

Why do I think of Steve Brooker when I read that last part :doh:

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4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Circa £4m, reduced to circa £3.5m to help Villa’s cash flow.

Rumours of Coventry too.

Ouch and on his wages, maybe we’ll learn 1 day, though you can’t blame him this year as everyone’s been a shambles

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2 hours ago, marcofisher said:

I'm sure the ones pining to keep Baker would be the same who moan when we can't afford to sign any quality next season!

Our money could be far better spent. We cannot rely on him to be a starter and he is never fit enough to be a consistent backup option. 

As I’ve said previously, had he come back for 10-12 games and looked the biz, you’d have a decision to make, but it’s too big a risk.  I like Baker (when he’s on the pitch), but there are better, cheaper options, as Harry eluded to in his post, and others have added to.

I hope we get to see Cundy over pre-season.  Would be a helluva rise from Bath and Gloucester.  I’m sure he has some rough edges to smooth, or perhaps keep the rough edges (?)and work on the other bits.  Those on here that saw him at Bath said he was quite composed on the ball too.

Although I’m no longer convinced Moore will make it here, would give me great pleasure if he did.  I know he has a mistake in him, but he can still develop....his passing numbers are superior to all our other defenders other than Mawson.

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