Ivan Toney query

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, frenchred said:

it was agreed before brentford had time to bid!

 

£6m was not so plausible given FFP and the prevailing uncertainty.

Are you talking about Summer 2020 or- I ask again, given our 'style' would varied other Brentford players who flourish there do so here- I have my doubts.

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Why’s that

Perhaps he likes Chas & Dave, pie n mash, jellied eels or living in a shit hole with an underground

[joe jordans teeth]

3 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Perhaps he likes Chas & Dave, pie n mash, jellied eels or living in a shit hole with an underground

You his agent,got me sold where do I sign 

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I’ve not listened to this one - i have only ever heard DA be complimentary about City and the way we conduct business

People are always complimentary when they get what they want. 
 

DA got exactly what he wanted out of the Eisa deal and so did City. 
Not sure DA would be so complimentary had his 19 emails ended in failing to secure Szmodics. 
 

As @petehinton said above, at what point do these professionals pick up the phone to each other and say “let’s talk about Sammie”. 
 

Email convo :

DA : Can we have SS on loan. 
MA : No. 

DA : Can we have SS on loan. 
MA : No. 

x another 16. 
 

DA : Can we have SS? Pretty please. 
MA : Ok. Sod the loan. Just have him. I’ll tell Lee later. 

[Rob k]

Just now, Harry said:

People are always complimentary when they get what they want. 
 

DA got exactly what he wanted out of the Eisa deal and so did City. 
Not sure DA would be so complimentary had his 19 emails ended in failing to secure Szmodics. 
 

As @petehinton said above, at what point do these professionals pick up the phone to each other and say “let’s talk about Sammie”. 
 

Email convo :

DA : Can we have SS on loan. 
MA : No. 

DA : Can we have SS on loan. 
MA : No. 

x another 16. 
 

DA : Can we have SS? Pretty please. 
MA : Ok. Sod the loan. Just have him. I’ll tell Lee later. 

He was complimentary about how we handled a payment due completely differently to how a prem team did, and also not the first time I’ve heard we are good in that respect. Now I’m as down as the next man about Ashton but generally i believe we handle affairs fairly well 

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, Rob k said:

He was complimentary about how we handled a payment due completely differently to how a prem team did, and also not the first time I’ve heard we are good in that respect. Now I’m as down as the next man about Ashton but generally i believe we handle affairs fairly well 

That’s nowt to do with Ashton. That’s simply the fact that SL is happy to sign the cheque. I don’t think it’s any secret that SL isn’t overly enamoured at the complexities of football transfers and prefers to make payments when they are due. 

[Lrrr]

No way we could have competed with Brentford for Toney, if they thought he might move somewhere else then Brentford would have chucked another couple of million at P'boro to get them to only accept their offer, knowing at least one of Watkins or Benrahama would have been off.

[Redandproud]

1 hour ago, 22A said:

When City let Szmodics go to P'boro', there was speculation on this forum that it was a sweetener as Ivan Toney was a P'boro' player who wanted to move on and City were interested in him.

In the end Ivan signed or Brentford; why?

Did Brentford make a better offer than City, or did Brentford offer the player better Ts & Cs, or did City's then management decide not to pursue him?

 

If you remember, Johnson said he would not pay the asking price,how wrong he was,as usual, came back to bite us,

[Harry]

Just now, Redandproud said:

If you remember, Johnson said he would not pay the asking price,how wrong he was,as usual, came back to bite us,

It wasn’t Johnson who decided what we pay 

[054123]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

8 million I think, which I don't think we would be willing to pay. Brentford had made money on Watkins sale to Villa

Agreed, much better spent on Palmer and Wells.

In all seriousness he wouldn’t have flourished here. We were already *******.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

It wasn’t Johnson who decided what we pay 

There do seem to be some fans who live in a past where an all-powerful manager decides on transfer fees, negotiates contracts and the like.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

It wasn’t Johnson who decided what we pay 

Gut feeling is FFP might have got in the way- what @Lrrr said, quite obvious Brentford had and have more headroom, could outbid etc.

[Rob k]

38 minutes ago, Harry said:

That’s nowt to do with Ashton. That’s simply the fact that SL is happy to sign the cheque. I don’t think it’s any secret that SL isn’t overly enamoured at the complexities of football transfers and prefers to make payments when they are due. 

They owed us money and wanted to restructure a payment - DA said we were excellent to deal with so i can only presume he means MA, now I’ve slated MA as much as anyone for recruitment so begrudgingly i will give a smidgen of credit if we have a good reputation as a club to deal with 

[Redandproud]

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

It wasn’t Johnson who decided what we pay 

He said I quote" not paying asking price"city offered£4m

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Redandproud said:

He said I quote" not paying asking price"city offered£4m

Can you give a full quote and say when he made that statement? Did he say "I won't pay the asking price" ? Given that as Head Coach he wouldn't have the authority to decide on fees.

[Pezo]

To sign Tony Brentford needed to sign Watkins, for Brentford to sign Watkins they needed to sign Maupay and before him Gray. 

Signing and selling Gray and Maupay provided money and evidence of what Brentford could do for Watkins, then on top of that Watkins proves and provides funds for the signing of Tony. 

We needed to start 5 years ago to be in the running for signing Tony last summer. We've been second best to Brentford off the pitch in all that time. 

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, Redandproud said:

If you remember, Johnson said he would not pay the asking price,how wrong he was,as usual, came back to bite us,

completely wrong i’m afraid!

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

It wasn’t Johnson who decided what we pay 

As it wasn’t Ashton 

[milo1111]

3 hours ago, frenchred said:

story i was told was toney was all agreed however deal went south due to mark ashton involvement with the finances!

 

I loathe Ashton but I can’t see this

[A Horse With No Name]

Toney is the player he is because he signed for Brentford. Had he signed for us, with the lack of service, and our record of having talent coached out of players, he would be very bang average. 

[CiderHeadDan]

4 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Spot on,imagine Toney being asked to chase back and defend the left wing,that’s why fammy was so underrated here

To be honest I think Fam was underrated (or fairly rated, depending on your stance) because he offered little else apart from fairly decent finishing and being good at defending corners.

His link up play was atrocious for a big man...

Personally not that sad to see him leave although wish him the best for the rest of his career.

[GrahamC]

By the time Ivan Toney joined Brentford (September 1st) Dean Holden had been our manager for 2 months, so what on earth this stuff about LJ trying to sign him is all about I have no idea.

When Toney actually moved we were not in any position to pay the fee that Peterborough demanded.

[alexukhc]

He’d of only got a hamstring 

[joe jordans teeth]

23 minutes ago, CiderHeadDan said:

To be honest I think Fam was underrated (or fairly rated, depending on your stance) because he offered little else apart from fairly decent finishing and being good at defending corners.

His link up play was atrocious for a big man...

Personally not that sad to see him leave although wish him the best for the rest of his career.

If he had all 3 of those abilities he wouldn’t of joined us let alone only cost 5 million,you don’t want much for your money 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

By the time Ivan Toney joined Brentford (September 1st) Dean Holden had been our manager for 2 months, so what on earth this stuff about LJ trying to sign him is all about I have no idea.

When Toney actually moved we were not in any position to pay the fee that Peterborough demanded.

Not quite right. The Bees had sold Watkins to Villa and had the available money to sign Toney - another example of Brentford replacing their decent players with ones of equal ability - sadly that didn’t happen at City when our better players were sold.

Ashton wasn’t able to cough up the price Posh wanted for him - but had he asked SL for the asking price he may well of got it but sadly another top player we missed out on.

[CiderHeadDan]

23 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

If he had all 3 of those abilities he wouldn’t of joined us let alone only cost 5 million,you don’t want much for your money 

But I think his current abilities sit well bellow what we supposedly aim for (promotion). Understandably we will be changing our hopes next season and I’d take a mid table finish with more entertainment. 

I guess I could go on to name more traits e.g. lack of movement, but I felt those were the most necessary to highlight. 

I think with good recruitment we could get a far better striker for the value we paid. They might not have as good goals to game ratio, or they may surpass Fams, but I think they will add more value to the team.

I’d much rather be a more fluid team and score goals elsewhere, and finish in the same position if it meant conceding more goals but that’s down to opinion.

[E.G.Red]

5 hours ago, Rob k said:

I’ve not listened to this one - i have only ever heard DA be complimentary about City and the way we conduct business

Which is exactly what he said last week when talking about Sammy on the radio

[joe jordans teeth]

30 minutes ago, CiderHeadDan said:

But I think his current abilities sit well bellow what we supposedly aim for (promotion). Understandably we will be changing our hopes next season and I’d take a mid table finish with more entertainment. 

I guess I could go on to name more traits e.g. lack of movement, but I felt those were the most necessary to highlight. 

I think with good recruitment we could get a far better striker for the value we paid. They might not have as good goals to game ratio, or they may surpass Fams, but I think they will add more value to the team.

I’d much rather be a more fluid team and score goals elsewhere, and finish in the same position if it meant conceding more goals but that’s down to opinion.

Couldn’t disagree with much of that mate,of course we have Wells to get rid of because his all round game is atrocious as well so going to have to get 2 strikers in unless we are going to go with youth

[Mr Popodopolous]

Had we got Vydra instead of Wells back when we sold Brownhill that could've been good. He has a track record and a good all round game- younger than Wells too. 

Wells I dunno, have we always played to his strengths? His QPR stint felt an overperformance but at the same time he is often good for a 1 in 3 type ratio at this level- albeit not with us.

As for Toney, I did a quick search or two and it mentioned LJ with Toney in an article in Jan 2020- was that the £6m price @frenchred referred to? All that was pre Covid constraints.

[CiderHeadDan]

11 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Couldn’t disagree with much of that mate,of course we have Wells to get rid of because his all round game is atrocious as well so going to have to get 2 strikers in unless we are going to go with youth

Yep Wells is someone who I’ve had more patience with than I should have, but I now can’t stand the bloke. 

I really believed he could be the 20+ goal a season striker and I don’t think he’s had the supply, but at the same time I think he’s been truly dreadful.