Gregor's Brentford Comparison

[Murraysrightplum]

2 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Bristol is unique and has very strong culture and identity yet what do we do ignore all of this and aim to become like every other else.

Take this opportunity, make our club stand out from the rest not slavishly follow them.

Not sure we should be building on this part of Bristol’s cultural history  

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

What are your expectations? 

Bristol City's academy has produced players for the XI and made the club money beyond its operating costs.  

Success? 

I’d actually like to see a breakdown of costs over the 20+ years it has existed vs player profits before accepting that point. 
 

To justify its existence, you also have to factor in numerous other factors, like  progress on the field - we’re an absolute shambles, woeful - and, vitally, opportunity lost i.e. if we pursued an alternative strategy could we have made more £’s or be - like many other similar sized clubs - in the Premiership.

The profit from one player who was on our doorstep - Ollie Watkins from Newton Abbot, playing for Exeter - could, I expect, trump by a massive margin any ‘profit’ from our Academy over the entirety of its existence.  

Hard questions need to be asked of our Club and its lamentable performance over the last few years. The Academy always gets an easy ride because of the ‘manyana ’ factor. I was always with AshtonYate probing and questioning its true performance. What, 10 years on since he’s departed, the points he and I argued are still valid imo.  
 

Not saying scrap it necessarily at the moment, but boy does it need to start delivering some ‘oven ready’ Championship talent soon. 

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I’d actually like to see a breakdown of costs over the 20+ years it has existed vs player profits before accepting that point. 
 

To justify its existence, you also have to factor in numerous other factors, like  progress on the field - we’re an absolute shambles, woeful - and, vitally, opportunity lost i.e. if we pursued an alternative strategy could we have made more £’s or be - like many other similar sized clubs - in the Premiership.

The profit from one player who was on our doorstep - Ollie Watkins from Newton Abbot, playing for Exeter - could, I expect, trump by a massive margin any ‘profit’ from our Academy over the entirety of its existence.  

Hard questions need to be asked of our Club and its lamentable performance over the last few years. The Academy always gets an easy ride because of the ‘manyana ’ factor. I was always with AshtonYate probing and questioning its true performance. What, 10 years on since he’s departed, the points he and I argued are still valid imo.  
 

Not saying scrap it necessarily at the moment, but boy does it need to start delivering some ‘oven ready’ Championship talent soon. 

You with respect didn't answer the questions about your expectations and success. 

A cat 2 running cost are below two million pounds a season. Cat 1 is above.

Since Amy Kington helped secured cat 2 status for BCFC's academy in 2014 the sale of players coming out of the academy easily covers its operating costs and has assisted the club to balance its books, and recruit players. 

What strategy is it that Bristol City cannot pursue due to its profit making academy?

Your point about Ollie Watkins highlights a success of academies in Exeter making a profit for their club as BCFC's does. It also highlights an area where BCFC can improve. Exeter run a network of development centres x scouts across the West. They scout then train hundreds of kids across Counties to then move prospective players into their academy. Bristol City could also progress its academy and developmental practices in a manner similarly. 

[Bill the Bee]

33 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Whilst the details of the Brentford approach are interesting, the single biggest difference is that they know what a Brentford player looks like and have stuck to a policy. They have a bespoke analytics system that matches that policy, and back it up with extensive physical scouting and player background checks. 

We have not defined what on earth we were trying to do, but also have bounced around youth, experience, journeymen and god knows what type of attributes between them,  with no plan or strategy in place. Many of the players Brentford signed were known to us, could possibly have signed to us, but were not. Others were chosen instead. On what basis ? Who knows. 

It was random, made up and changed daily, and quite frankly was total BS. 

I would add that most of the big clubs in the championship say if it was that good why are we still in the championship.So it’s down to expectations which most reasonable Bees fans are realistic as we are a good championship side now after years in the lower leagues.I fully understand why fans of some of the bigger clubs feel they shouldn’t be in the championship after many years in the top league but once you have been in a league for a few seasons that’s what you are simple as.

 

[RedRock]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You with respect didn't answer the questions about your expectations and success. 

A cat 2 running cost are below two million pounds a season. Cat 1 is above.

Since Amy Kington helped secured cat 2 status for BCFC's academy in 2014 the sale of players coming out of the academy easily covers its operating costs and has assisted the club to balance its books, and recruit players. 

What strategy is it that Bristol City cannot pursue due to its profit making academy?

Your point about Ollie Watkins highlights a success of academies in Exeter making a profit for their club as BCFC's does. It also highlights an area where BCFC can improve. Exeter run a network of development centres x scouts across the West. They scout then train hundreds of kids across Counties to then move prospective players into their academy. Bristol City could also progress its academy and developmental practices in a manner similarly. 

My expectation would be, on average, one player per year from the Academy to be in the first team squad making regular, productive, consistent 7/10 performances. Every three years, one of the players sold for £4-5 million.
 

Cost wise, that would equate to scouting and buying a top-quality young talent every season from the Division(s) below, who would be ready to step-up. 

The Ollie Watkins example. Frankly, we should not be lagging behind the Exeter. We should hang our heads in shame that they have a model that produces such talent that appears better than our own. How long do we need to get it right? 

That Exeter and then Brentford are the type of Clubs of choice for young players like Watkins is not impressive, at least to me.

The strategy we are not pursuing - I assume on the basis of investing our resources in the Academy - is a network of high quality scouts countrywide. Working under the guidance of a chief scout of good reputation and with proven successes. 
 

The success - or failure - of the Academy strategy is what we see on the pitch. The first team are hopeless. I’ve never seen such a disjointed, disinterested set of players wearing the red shirts.
 

PS. I thought Mark Ashton secured our Cat 2 status

[Davefevs]

You little tinker you!

[Cowshed]

8 minutes ago, RedRock said:

My expectation would be, on average, one player per year from the Academy to be in the first team squad making regular, productive, consistent 7/10 performances. Every three years, one of the players sold for £4-5 million.
 

Cost wise, that would equate to scouting and buying a top-quality young talent every season from the Division(s) below, who would be ready to step-up. 

The Ollie Watkins example. Frankly, we should not be lagging behind the Exeter. We should hang our heads in shame that they have a model that produces such talent that appears better than our own. How long do we need to get it right? 

That Exeter and then Brentford are the type of Clubs of choice for young players like Watkins is not impressive, at least to me.

The strategy we are not pursuing - I assume on the basis of investing our resources in the Academy - is a network of high quality scouts countrywide. Working under the guidance of a chief scout of good reputation and with proven successes. 
 

The success - or failure - of the Academy strategy is what we see on the pitch. The first team are hopeless. I’ve never seen such a disjointed, disinterested set of players wearing the red shirts.
 

PS. I thought Mark Ashton secured our Cat 2 status

 

Bristol City are not investing their resources in the academy. The academy is making the FC money = It cannot be a drain on resources. Money that can be spent from profits on these players you highlight in the lower levels. 

Bristol City have been getting near that one player a year, whether they meet your mark is opinion but Bristol City are selling players from the academy well in excess of that £4-5million you quote. And more than one has been sold in three years.  Financially it is significantly beneficial.

In regards to Exeter why not put more money into BCFC's academy to increase its regional reach?  

Bristol City are signing tens and tens of players costing millions upon millions creating financial losses of millions. What academy strategy are you referring to that can cover that? 

PS. No.

[Fuber]

11 hours ago, Suffolk Red said:

I agree with a lot of what Gregor has said about us and Brentford. There was a time when we were just a small step behind them.

Both clubs made good profits in the last five years; the difference being they have recruited better since selling on their stars- why is that?

Although there are parallels to be drawn their are also distinct differences that should be recognised.

1. The London factor- Living in London is a big draw for many players; Bristol by comparison is seen as a sleepy backwater. Fringe players from bigger London clubs are also more likely to agree a loan to Brentford as opposed to upping sticks to Bristol. 

2. Academy. This should be our strength by comparison as we have few competing set ups in our region. We have the facilities now to optimise this and to attract better senior players to play alongside our burgeoning pool of young talent.

3. Manager. Simply put Brentford have made excellent appointments in recent years. I am however confident we now have the right man in Pearson to take us forward again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Mark Ashton is shit at recruitment. Namely staff. Employing mates.

The End. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

If we had Matthew Benham here (from when he took over them), and sent SL along the M4 to plough his millions into Brentford, I reckon we'd have .... well, I reckon we'd have made the play-offs once over the last six seasons, let's put it like that (and not get into how Brentford might've fared under Steve's guidance).

Oh yeah, and if my auntie had testicles ..... etc etc

[Lew-T]

12 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Quite. And Bristol is consistently voted one of the best places to live in the UK. Bristol, as a place, has probably never been so popular, in fact. 

Popular for the student bums you mean.