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Relegation - it’s not all over yet!


Silvio Dante

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The EFL have won an appeal which finds Derby in breach of FFP.

Should the matter be approached consistently, any points deduction in these cases is applied in the current season should it result in the team in question moving into a relegation/out of a promotion place.

If the side in question would not move into a relegation/out of a promotion place, the deduction would be applied the following year.

A two point deduction would see WRDC relegated.

All Wycombe aren’t we?

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Just now, The Gasbuster said:

This appeal should have been wrapped up BEFORE the season ended. Too late now I fear. The fact the season is now over only strengthens Derby’s position, IMO.

Puts Wycombe in a tough position too. If a ruling is made and there is scope for an appeal then it potentially means Wycombe will spend much of the pre-season not knowing which division they are in. Could be disastrous for their pre-season preparations, whatever the outcome. 

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Wycombe would be nice as its another short GWR railway trip

In the recent poll 10 per cent wanted derby to go down and 90 per cent  wanted Sheff Wednesday to stay up

I wanted sheff wednesday to go down after they charged us 39 pounds for a match day ticket on the first away game of the season

So I am quite happy for derby to go down and Wycombe to stay up

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2 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said:

Wycombe would be nice as its another short GWR railway trip

In the recent poll 10 per cent wanted derby to go down and 90 per cent  wanted Sheff Wednesday to stay up

I wanted sheff wednesday to go down after they charged us 39 pounds for a match day ticket on the first away game of the season

So I am quite happy for derby to go down and Wycombe to stay up

Ain't that the same thing NTTDS?

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19 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

If Derby aren’t deducted points it could get very messy given it was the points reduction that’s ultimately relegated Sheffield Wednesday 

Wycombe are talking legal action too though contradictory reports on this.

They seem pretty bullish, to the extent that they cannot be docked points...

image.thumb.png.cff2e4c22a320a1581dc9490802a1548.png

Misleading your Governing body and not handing over details of policy on request to said Governing body are minor offences are they??

Some sophistry in that post- "Breach of Accounting standards", "Regs of EFL (Governing body) and misleading said Governing body are all minor?? Given that it would materially affect the P&S returns for god knows how long, how exactly is that worthy of a fine?

Utmost good faith, could that be worth a couple of points. ;) Think Macclesfield lost points based on that.

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19 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

If Derby aren’t deducted points it could get very messy given it was the points reduction that’s ultimately relegated Sheffield Wednesday 

This. 100 times over. 
 

Clearly, depends on if the Derby and Weds breaches are of a similar nature, but if they are, and Derby aren’t deducted points - Weds have a legitimate grievance and could ask for their points to be reinstated.

Wholly possible the outcome here may be Derby get no deduction and Weds get theirs struck off = Derby relegated

So, points deduction - Wycombe stay up

No points deduction - Weds stay up?

Either way, Derby may be snookered.

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4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

This. 100 times over. 
 

Clearly, depends on if the Derby and Weds breaches are of a similar nature, but if they are, and Derby aren’t deducted points - Weds have a legitimate grievance and could ask for their points to be reinstated.

Wholly possible the outcome here may be Derby get no deduction and Weds get theirs struck off = Derby relegated

So, points deduction - Wycombe stay up

No points deduction - Weds stay up?

Either way, Derby may be snookered.

I don't see the grounds for that. Different cases.

However I'd take it!

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1 hour ago, The Gasbuster said:

This appeal should have been wrapped up BEFORE the season ended. Too late now I fear. The fact the season is now over only strengthens Derby’s position, IMO.

Play-offs still to be played, so this season is very much still in play.  This is going to get messy if Derby don't get a points deduction.  Of course, Marlon could've helped the league avoid this by not equalising against Rotherham!

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6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

This. 100 times over. 
 

Clearly, depends on if the Derby and Weds breaches are of a similar nature, but if they are, and Derby aren’t deducted points - Weds have a legitimate grievance and could ask for their points to be reinstated.

Wholly possible the outcome here may be Derby get no deduction and Weds get theirs struck off = Derby relegated

So, points deduction - Wycombe stay up

No points deduction - Weds stay up?

Either way, Derby may be snookered.

Either way it’s a *****n mess entirely of the EFL’s making.

The EFL have bottled or cocked up just about every decision regarding application of ffp, including reduction of Wednesday’s initial points deduction. Whatever decision they now make you can bet another club(s) adversely affected will take legal action, pointing to previous decisions ( or lack of) as a precedent.

I have a horrible feeling that the EFL might have suppressed the Derby appeal verdict until after the end of the season to avoid yet another embarrassing  confrontation with Derby if a points deduction would have related them. If so, then they will reap what they sow, as I am sure both Wycombe and/or  Wednesday will fight for that decision to be applied immediately - as it should be.

When it comes to ffp the EFL make Fred Karno’s Circus lookalike a slick, well organised machine.

 

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2 hours ago, chipdawg said:

Surely the EFL will just apply the points deduction next season if the appeal sticks?

Didn't this happen with Wednesday?

 

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Either way it’s a *****n mess entirely of the EFL’s making.

The EFL have bottled or cocked up just about every decision regarding application of ffp, including reduction of Wednesday’s initial points deduction. Whatever decision they now make you can bet another club(s) adversely affected will take legal action, pointing to previous decisions ( or lack of) as a precedent.

I have a horrible feeling that the EFL might have suppressed the Derby appeal verdict until after the end of the season to avoid yet another embarrassing  confrontation with Derby if a points deduction would have related them. If so, then they will reap what they sow, as I am sure both Wycombe and/or  Wednesday will fight for that decision to be applied immediately - as it should be.

When it comes to ffp the EFL make Fred Karno’s Circus lookalike a slick, well organised machine.

 

Doesn't it depend whether you're a "big" club or not?

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2 hours ago, The Gasbuster said:

This appeal should have been wrapped up BEFORE the season ended. Too late now I fear. The fact the season is now over only strengthens Derby’s position, IMO.

I think the EFL rule is the season ends at the end of the playoffs, until all promotion places are decided, the season is not over

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image.thumb.png.cbe84892a76cf2d57112079192a5abd8.png

SwissRamble has made a rare rick there as they- the EFL- actually have been using the Consolidated/Group Accounts since 2016/17. Unsurprisingly these give quite a bit less headroom than the club ones.

Because what Derby appeared to do until this was changed, was account for all the income of the Group companies in the Club ones, but have the costs of those companies in the Group ones. Income basically the same in both, but costs lower in the Club ones and if you use the Club for P&S, it gives you a better figure...

I make it...£15m loss for FFP in 2015/16, £13m in 2016/17 and £7m Profit in 2017/18. Club were used for 2015/16, Consolidated thereafter. The Written Reasons show as much.

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1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

Play-offs still to be played, so this season is very much still in play.  This is going to get messy if Derby don't get a points deduction.  Of course, Marlon could've helped the league avoid this by not equalising against Rotherham!

Oo-oo, this could get messy, but I don't seem to mind

don't go telling everybody, and overlook this supposed crime  ?

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3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

The EFL have won an appeal which finds Derby in breach of FFP.

Should the matter be approached consistently, any points deduction in these cases is applied in the current season should it result in the team in question moving into a relegation/out of a promotion place.

If the side in question would not move into a relegation/out of a promotion place, the deduction would be applied the following year.

A two point deduction would see WRDC relegated.

All Wycombe aren’t we?

Beautiful. 

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Puts Wycombe in a tough position too. If a ruling is made and there is scope for an appeal then it potentially means Wycombe will spend much of the pre-season not knowing which division they are in. Could be disastrous for their pre-season preparations, whatever the outcome. 

Cannot be allowed to happen. The boffs at the FL are surely a bit more savvy no?... ?

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

Play-offs still to be played, so this season is very much still in play.  This is going to get messy if Derby don't get a points deduction.  Of course, Marlon could've helped the league avoid this by not equalising against Rotherham!

And I am assuming Silvio has his facts right ref points deduction moving Derby into a relegation position. That and what you say mean it's a slam dunk. Except we are dealing with the Football League here. 

Messy would be the understatement of the year .

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37 minutes ago, Midred said:

Didn't this happen with Wednesday?

 

Doesn't it depend whether you're a "big" club or not?

The  EFL big club coefficient i. e. doing ****** all? 

 

 

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