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Semenyo


Kid in the Riot

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

How odd...it literally crossed my mind the other day as to who would come calling for Semenyo. 

Palace screamed at me...he is totally a Palace type player.

Semenyo literally is the biggest dilemma I've ever seen as a player for us.

He's so unatural it's confusing. 

He's big, strong, direct for his age, but has the composure of a 17 year old in front of Kylie when in front of goal. Literally watch every pass, shot or control ..tell me it isn't crisp, controlled or composed.....so, so frustrating.

Like Harry...I'd be pushing for more.

Composure...OK, in an unimpressive season for City, the guy has most assists out of anybody... so there is some end product there.

My view is that he is a Nige type player. He likes players with pace and power. So, on  balance, I think I'd be disappointed to lose Semenyo. 

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If Palace really want him they’ll pay the 5M.  Problem is they’ll let it go down to the wire, which won’t help our forward planning.  Ideally, if we let it known we’re willing to sell, we might drum up a counter offer from another club which might force Palace off the pot, earlier rather than later.

Edited by Malago
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1 minute ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Strange one isn't he?

That goal against Millwall in the cup, i thought "wow he has the ability to do that". Plus the 5/6 assists that he got in the first half of the season.

I didn't rate him at all, based on the evidence of the 19/20 season. But i thought i would have to reevaluate my thinking around him.

However, second half of the season (like everyone else), his overall performances were not of the same standard.

His two league goals consist of 2 x chasing down the keeper, and the ball coming off his ass. He's not a natural goalscorer, in the way that Conway and Britton have demonstrated for the under 23s, and first team.

In that case, what sort of player is he?

In the current climate £4-5m affords us the capability to get 3/4 other players in to help with the rebuild.

I have no problem with him going for that figure. But a lot will depend on how we replace him.

That will be the indication of whether we've learned from our previous mistakes; and that the new processes/talent id process is working in the way we hope it will.

I think you've hit the nail on the head re Semenyo...unless something drastically changed.

He's not a natural goal scorer, he's not a ' number 10'...is he an attacking me? Who knows...my guess is he'll have a career, but unfulfilled, because no one will work out his best position or how to play him.

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2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Composure...OK, in an unimpressive season for City, the guy has most assists out of anybody... so there is some end product there.

My view is that he is a Nige type player. He likes players with pace and power. So, on  balance, I think I'd be disappointed to lose Semenyo. 

Hence my view in he's worth more in the market.

I can see talent...but unorthodox. So a risk.

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40 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Because:

1.  He may not

2. You destroy his dreams and aspirations

3. You destroy the dreams and aspirations of every other youngster in the club and every other youngster in the world will think twice or three times before signing up. 

I guess you have valid points. Would just like the club to maybe try hold out on this one and not act as a pushover in the market. Maybe put the price up abit to say 8-10 mill like what Peterborough did with Toney 
 

However the complete opposite to this would be if we were to get a sum of say 5 million. I saw Fevs say we could sign a number of players on eg 20k a week and strengthening the squad now is a necessity. 
 

I’m torn between the two 

Edited by Finley_Smith10
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I can understand some wanting to keep him in the hope he further improves and scores a few, probably doubling whats on the table.

But 4m or 5m right at the start of the window gives NP a chance to get some very good OOC players in, or even loan players early in the window ready for pre-season.

In that sense, 5m now could give NP a very good start to his rebuild.

If he hits it off at Palace, then decent add ons will give the club a windfall in the future.

Shame, but I think its best all round if he goes to Palace.

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8 minutes ago, spudski said:

He's big, strong, direct for his age, but has the composure of a 17 year old in front of Kylie when in front of goal.

:clapping:

 

He's a difficult player to judge. On one hand, he frustrates so much because he doesn't score enough (or at times look likely to), and that money could get a decent replacement, or cover the wages of a few free's. Palace aren't stupid, they know this, along with the fact that we need to rebuild and let's be fair, cash in the hand would be beneficial.

On the other hand, he is probably one of the players that is likely to go on and prove a lot of people wrong - Bobby Reid style.

We haven't looked like scoring much this season, so to knock him for not scoring enough, could be a bit unfair. Maybe with a decent pre season, and decent coaching from the right type of coach (e.g. one that is/was able to find the net regularly), he could improve ten fold.

Was there not a club supposedly interested in him recently? If there is anything substantial in both "rumours" then let the bids come in, and see where they go.

The thing with these Prem clubs, is that while people are saying "he won't get game time for ages/if at all", at that price they can afford to take the gamble. For them, it's the equivalent of us taking a "punt" on Engval. Won't miss it at all.

I'm in the undecided camp with him. Frustrates but has potential.

Agree with the Posh comments - put a high price on him and see who takes the bait. Start playing proper hardball.

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If we can get £4m I would sell, providing a large sell on % is included. 

Malik Wilks (Hull) is a player we should target with some of the money. 22 years old (1 year older than Semenyo), has scored 39 goals since 2018 (for Doncaster, Barnsley and Hull). He would likely cost up to £2m, which leaves plenty in the kitty for additional incomings. 

Semenyo certainly could become a very good player, and I fully believe he would develop at a faster rate under Pearson. However, there are players out there who could have a bigger impact right away. 

 

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I think if he moves on we'll all be cursing at what a great player we'll see him turn into in the next few years, but what we need to realise is he probably couldn't of reached that potential here. He needs to move, be around better players and coaches. Similar to YB and Ayling when they moved. 

5m is a great deal for them still, I think he'll turn out to be fantastic player, we can all see that potential.

Saying that, I do still feel slightly bitter. It feels like we're really scrapping the barrell of our team and selling whatever small sparks we have left! Anyone who shows any flair and they're gone :( 

Edited by Sturny
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6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A risk for sure, but Semenyo in the hands of Nigel Pearson, versus Bolasie in the hands of Derek McInnes are very different propositions. 

I don't see it like that at all mate. 

Both of those players are beasts, with unorthodox talent.

Regardless of ' manager' it could go either way imo.

Outside of a covid year I reckon a Prem club would risk £10 m on him.

Right now, it's an unknown quantity value wise. A true gamble.

I'd edge on the side of keep him as I see potential, but if £10 m I'd sell.

3 minutes ago, Taz said:

:clapping:

 

He's a difficult player to judge. On one hand, he frustrates so much because he doesn't score enough (or at times look likely to), and that money could get a decent replacement, or cover the wages of a few free's. Palace aren't stupid, they know this, along with the fact that we need to rebuild and let's be fair, cash in the hand would be beneficial.

On the other hand, he is probably one of the players that is likely to go on and prove a lot of people wrong - Bobby Reid style.

We haven't looked like scoring much this season, so to knock him for not scoring enough, could be a bit unfair. Maybe with a decent pre season, and decent coaching from the right type of coach (e.g. one that is/was able to find the net regularly), he could improve ten fold.

Was there not a club supposedly interested in him recently? If there is anything substantial in both "rumours" then let the bids come in, and see where they go.

The thing with these Prem clubs, is that while people are saying "he won't get game time for ages/if at all", at that price they can afford to take the gamble. For them, it's the equivalent of us taking a "punt" on Engval. Won't miss it at all.

I'm in the undecided camp with him. Frustrates but has potential.

Agree with the Posh comments - put a high price on him and see who takes the bait. Start playing proper hardball.

I think post covid we have to play hardball as you say.

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24 minutes ago, spudski said:

How odd...it literally crossed my mind the other day as to who would come calling for Semenyo. 

Palace screamed at me...he is totally a Palace type player.

Semenyo literally is the biggest dilemma I've ever seen as a player for us.

He's so unatural it's confusing. 

He's big, strong, direct for his age, but has the composure of a 17 year old in front of Kylie when in front of goal. Literally watch every pass, shot or control ..tell me it isn't crisp, controlled or composed.....so, so frustrating.

Like Harry...I'd be pushing for more.

I think it was mentioned a couple of weeks ago that Palace was interested. Can’t remember where or who

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6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't see it like that at all mate. 

Both of those players are beasts, with unorthodox talent.

Regardless of ' manager' it could go either way imo.

Outside of a covid year I reckon a Prem club would risk £10 m on him.

Right now, it's an unknown quantity value wise. A true gamble.

I'd edge on the side of keep him as I see potential, but if £10 m I'd sell.

Fair, your view. But I think Pearson's track record of bringing on players like this, at this level, versus McInnes' non-existent record of doing so, counts for a lot. 

One season with Nige and let's day he has 10 goals and 10 assists, then he is likely a £10m player who has made a huge contribution to Bristol City.

Look, I agree it's one of those that's in the balance - let's hope we make the right call. I'm certainly leaning towards wanting to see the kid for at least one more season in  a City shirt unless the offer is big. 

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Interesting one.

He's certainly got all the physical attributes for the Prem right now. 

Still a work in progress though. Would be a shame to see him improve elsewhere and not here but the amount and timing is tempting.

London lad originally as well isn't he?

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1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Yeah, for 12 or 15 mil if he does the business whilst on 'loan' from his new club.

We would effectively sell him for peanuts, develop him further and see none of the financial benefits.

Or, he could produce more of the same, with no enhanced value and with less time on his contact. 

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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Fair, your view. But I think Pearson's track record of bringing on players like this, at this level, versus McInnes' non-existent record of doing so, counts for a lot. 

One season with Nige and let's day he has 10 goals and 10 assists, then he is likely a £10m player who has made a huge contribution to Bristol City.

Look, I agree it's one of those that's in the balance - let's hope we make the right call. I'm certainly leaning towards wanting to see the kid for at least one more season in  a City shirt unless the offer is big. 

Your last sentence sums up my gut instinct too...hard one to call.

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I do see the needs to build, but surprised how many are so ready to see him leave.  How many threads on here lately bemoaning selling our best players?

Sure he lacks composure when in on goal, but he's quick, strong, makes good runs, has good awareness of players around him, can play off both feet.   I'd keep him.  

Personally, I think he lacks a bit of confidence.  If he had a bit more arrogance about him he'd soon start smashing them in.  

Edited by Red Skin
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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Can’t say I’d lose any sleep. Yeh, he was YPOTS,  but he didn’t exactly have any competition did he?

Lets be realistic, would he have played anywhere near as many games if we’d had a fully fit squad? Not a chance. 

Cash in. Add the mandatory sell on clause and job done. 

If we could only keep one, I’d much rather keep Liam Walsh*
 

*although I appreciate this isn’t a real scenario. 

Massengo was robbed!

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On the flip side to my earlier post of ‘hold out for £10m’, if we did sell for, let’s say £4m, we could rebuild the side in the following manner :

Scott Twine - compensation fee from Swindon. 
Matt Jay - circa £750k from Exeter. 
Stephen Humphrys - circa £600k-£1m from Rochdale. 

 

You’ve then rebuilt your whole front line with 3 players for the price of 1 and still £2m left to plough into the defence or midfield. 

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21 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Fair, your view. But I think Pearson's track record of bringing on players like this, at this level, versus McInnes' non-existent record of doing so, counts for a lot. 

One season with Nige and let's day he has 10 goals and 10 assists, then he is likely a £10m player who has made a huge contribution to Bristol City.

Look, I agree it's one of those that's in the balance - let's hope we make the right call. I'm certainly leaning towards wanting to see the kid for at least one more season in  a City shirt unless the offer is big. 

I'm not going to argue that McInnes' track record was good, but in fairness he did have the dilemma of accommodating a fairly young Albert and a very young Bolassie into the same side. 

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I'd accept 4 million with sell on clause. 

I think good arguments for and against this. I think there is coaching to be had with Semenyo about when to dribble and when to shoot. 

On the other hand, he hasn't been of the required standard on the whole all season to suggest he will improve us. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head re Semenyo...unless something drastically changed.

He's not a natural goal scorer, he's not a ' number 10'...is he an attacking me? Who knows...my guess is he'll have a career, but unfulfilled, because no one will work out his best position or how to play him.

He's an athlete who can play football. But he is not a footballer. His timing and ball control is haphazard and his "reading" of the game is almost non existent.

Sell while a Premier League club is daft enough to pay £5 million.

And watch natural goal scorers like Sam Bell, Conway and Britton improving with match experience.

Edited by cidered abroad
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41 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

If we can get £4m I would sell, providing a large sell on % is included. 

Malik Wilks (Hull) is a player we should target with some of the money. 22 years old (1 year older than Semenyo), has scored 39 goals since 2018 (for Doncaster, Barnsley and Hull). He would likely cost up to £2m, which leaves plenty in the kitty for additional incomings. 

Semenyo certainly could become a very good player, and I fully believe he would develop at a faster rate under Pearson. However, there are players out there who could have a bigger impact right away. 

 

If we play 4231, Wilks is a player who’d fit really well.  In my League One “Forwards” list on the transfer sub-forum.

1 minute ago, Bristolboy_06 said:

If we can get £17M for Lloyd Kelly at a similar age, we can get at least £10M for Semenyo. 

Different market these days.  Kelly an u21 international too.

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I’d rather keep him and risk he doesn’t develop rather than sell him for 3m. 5m maybe but probably lowest I’d go. I’d be looking for 7.5m guaranteed. 
 

Pretty sure he has multiple years left on his deal. Risk it and if he scores 10-15 he is worth more than 3-5m even with a year left. He isn’t a great finisher at the minute and may never be. That said, he gets into good positions often and a bit more composure his goal return could easily go up. We have finally developed him into a championship player, so why sell him? We sell too early too often. Let’s build around some of these players for once. 

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Let’s face it that for £3m we wouldn’t be able to get Szmodics from Peterborough. In fact they probably wouldn’t sell a striker for less than £5m now even to a Championship club so it’s a no from me.
 

Unfortunately his performances and appearances seemed to drop off at the end of the season and I wondered if we had moved to a head-turned scenario with Antoine. It will all come down to how much we need to fund incomings and whether other than Kalas, Bents and Han there are any other marketable players. It also depends on Nigels view of him and his value going forward but as NP has already made clear players have to decide if they want to come on the journey or not and maybe Antoine doesn’t either have or want  a place on our bus.

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I'd take the money and reinvest in a targeted way personally.

I'd prefer a smaller, more elite squad with clearly defined/understood roles and after a year of watching him I'm not entirely sure where he fits in for us. Is he going to play regularly? If not, how are we going to play or develop him?

A decent player with potential to perhaps be very good, but I don't want us to hang on to a load of players like that around the squad on that chance personally.

For every "but look at Bolaise" there are ten more people said until they were blue in the face on here they were the next big thing we should be playing every week who disappeared completely.

Taking risks on youngsters goes both ways - letting them go as well as playing them. I hope we keep him and he does it for us but that's what I'd do if I were making the decisions!

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