Summer Rebuild - Too Much to Do?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Yep and then the likes of Matt Smith and Tarvanier on loan who both really helped later in the season.

I think if we add 5 players Nige is very confident in improving us right now then I think we could have a strong squad going into next season.

Of course that won't be easy. But we do seem capable of competing and beating teams to players. Lansdown will back us and we have just released a huge amount in wages. 

The safest way might be to bring in players that have just had a good season in the championship, preferably avoiding long spells out injured.

But I'm sure there'll also be quality loans from prem clubs available. And league one players who look too good for that level.

I also expect a couple more to move on. Possibly Nagy and Palmer either permanently or on loan. I'm not so sure they're Pearson type players.

For me, 4 down the spine and one wide player, something along the lines of 2 CBs, 1 CM, 1 ST, 1 WM.

One or two of those might be loans…but I hope they are with options to buy.  Although only 21, I’d be making Ostigard my no1 target.

[eardun]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me, 4 down the spine and one wide player, something along the lines of 2 CBs, 1 CM, 1 ST, 1 WM.

One or two of those might be loans…but I hope they are with options to buy.  Although only 21, I’d be making Ostigard my no1 target.

I would probably add a RB to that unless Vyner is seen as the competition for Simpson. 

[sunningdalered]

I expect its been covered in depth on another thread, in which case a link would be appreciated, but interested to know who will be helping NP with the identification of suitable targets. Presumably, the exit of MA will not affect the pre-contract part of the process. 

[Abraham Romanovich]

14 hours ago, Robin101 said:

Sigh. We’ve been three years away from promotion for thirty years.

Agreed, but not sure why this is accepted as a truism, it is possible to turn round relegation candidates one season to promotion hopefuls the next Barnsley, Brighton being examples.

Every new manager is employed because the club is failing and a decent manager like NP has the experience to see what is wrong ,upgrade where appropriate  and see results improve, 3 years is unrealistic

Next season i expect to see a coherent pattern to our play more entertainment and a comfortable mid table finish . 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, eardun said:

I would probably add a RB to that unless Vyner is seen as the competition for Simpson. 

My speculation / guesswork is that NP has Vyner earmarked to be our no1 RB, with Simpson as back-up / rotation.  NP mentioned that Zak needs to concentrate on one position.  Personally I don’t think Zak will ever be a dominant CB.  He did fine as a RCB in a 3 early season, where it was less “heading and kicking”.  He is athletic, lots of stamina, and during his little stint in midfield showed he is a capable footballer on the ball.

One final thing, he has a long throw.  Which I think we should utilise more often.  Generally you don’t want to drag you CM or CB over to take long throws because of the risk in opposition transition.

3 minutes ago, sunningdalered said:

I expect its been covered in depth on another thread, in which case a link would be appreciated, but interested to know who will be helping NP with the identification of suitable targets. Presumably, the exit of MA will not affect the pre-contract part of the process. 

Gilhespy will be doing some of that….plus you’d expect NP to be calling all of his wide network of contacts for suggestions and opinions.

[Jerseybean]

The transfer window opens on 9 June and I am excited to see what happens for us and indeed in general. 

As has been suggested we will see a phased approach in terms of NP building a team and no doubt the impact of Covid will significantly impact all transactions/negotiations.

My hunch is that two or three of the established players we’ve retained will likely be on the move and we will bring in about half a dozen players this window including, I anticipate, a loanee or two. 

Think (based on NP’s recurring comments) we can already identify the traits NP will look for in whoever is added - responsibility, accountability, buying into a strict regime/culture, etc, in short a solid professional who has the war wounds to prove it.

Going to be an interesting closed season.

[firstdivision]

17 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Mid table will be seen as acceptable next season, Pearson has already said it won't be a 1 season fix

More like a miracle from where we are at the moment. They’re going to have to be five or so really decent signings.

[sunningdalered]

Without his own person, or people, that he trusts working on player identification for this close season, I wonder if he might hold back a bit on 3-year deals and go for a couple of 1-year loans just to get things moving in the right direction. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'd actually bring in a right back to go with Simpson, as I prefer Vyner in midfield. I know I am on my own with that one!

That is, of course, an option open to him, if you do that do you then need a CM?

Nyambe who I think you've suggested before. Or Smith of Bournemouth would be a very good free if he is out of contract. Or maybe O'Nien if Sunderland fail to win promotion. Versatile player.

Smith is 30, probably on £30-40k p.w. currently.  Appreciate he’s out of contract, but if Bournemouth stay down, suspect he will sign a new deal.  Do we want two 30+ RBs?

Nyambe, of course would be a good signing, guess there will be some compensation (£1m plus, based on Adelakun being £600k).  O’Nien is decent too.  26 though, not a youngster.

Centre backs - Interesting to see what Nige thinks of Taylor Moore. No doubt he has had some very bad games, often when left of the back 3 where he really struggles.

He's had very good games too. So he CAN play well at this level, but consistency is key. Centre backs are rarely at their peak at his age, I have not given up on him yet. He certainly doesn't suit a team like ours hanging on for dear life in games for much of the season!

Another “defining summer” for Taylor, we say it every summer.  Not as bad as some make out, but needs to improve.  His passing stats (alongside Mawson) pissed all over every other CB, and he had some good games early season in the centre of a 3.  Mawson injury, Kalas back central, Moore to LCB was not a success.  Played ok as RCB v Sheff Utd or Brentford after Xmas.  I agree, not one to give up on, but I genuinely think he might be a borderline “get rid of” if there’s interest.

Cundy will hopefully be good enough. Brings a dominance we lack at the back.

Needs a good pre-season.  Talk of a couple of clubs being interested, so a wait and see.  I would like to see him get a chance.

So those 2 and Kalas, assuming Vyner is seen in a different position by Nige. Yep, certainly need 2 more centre backs. I expect one of those to be a proper proven centre back. A bit like the Mawson signing.

Central midfield - Yep absolutely need one in there. A solid all rounder who can protect the defence but is also tidy on the ball. I am hoping Bakinson comes back much fitter and developed his game further, and can fit in alongside Williams. But I doubt Bakinson is one Nige completely trusts just yet, and will need someone he knows will be a solid 7 out of 10 most games alongside Williams.

So, do you want Vyner there or not?

Wings and up front - Very hard to predict what will happen and what Nige feels we need there. Does he like Palmer wide. Where does Weimann play. It doesn't seem like he likes to play Wells in the lone role, but is that because of how poor a team we are behind him and around him. Will he prefer a Martin type and if so do we need another like that to compete for that role.

Would you try a sneaky bid for Eliasson?  I might!

Assuming we have our “aged” set of strikers - Martin, Wells and Weimann, with our youngsters providing fringe cover, could we move for a mid-age striker like Yates, or Charles.  Jephcott, who I’ve still seen little of, has gone off the boil (a lesson to those who think development is straight line and can’t tail off - it can go either way), albeit partnering Ennis instead of Hardie might be the cause.

He might even choose to go 442 which really changes what we might need, as I am not so sure we'd need wingers then if we go a narrow 442 with 2 mobile strikers. If so then that probably makes Bell or Conway much more handy, as I see them as being much better in a mobile front pair than they would in any other roles at this stage of their careers.

yep, that is the unknown.

 

@RalphMilnesLeftFooti made a post elsewhere that with the returning injured players it’s not doom and gloom.  A couple of upgrades makes the team significantly better.

[1960maaan]

I think the vision of a total rebuild may be based on, the complete failure to win, pass , control or compete for the ball over some time. Individually I think we have some very good players, and some with a lot of potential.

Keepers:
Bentley , O'Leary. ............ I'm more than happy with those 2, wont be many clubs with better.

Fullbacks
DaSilva , Pring.
Simpson .................... I would expect another RB/RWB to come in. 

Centrebacks
Kalas , Vyner , Moore .......... Depending on system we will need another CB if not 2

Midfield
Nagy , Williams , Bakinson , HNM
Palmer , COD ,   ....................... If there was an opportunity I'd sign a genuine ball winner , maybe a wide MF (not a winger)

Forwards 
Wells , Martin , Semenyo ......... Probably space for a striker, but not No.1 priority. Depends on funds etc.

I've not involved the young players, most could probably do with a loan or 2. If we can bring in some quality, maybe 3 or 4 that improve the squad, and NP has a full preseason with everyone in early to bed in, I think we could be OK. Play Nagy and HNM in their best positions, let Bakinson develop at his own speed. Play Wells central, let Vyner concentrate on one role. Williams could be important.

The manager is key, as ever. He brings in the right backroom staff, they all target the right additions, we could actually be enjoying going to the Gate next year.

[GrahamC]

@JonDolman being reported that Blackburn have activated the extension clause in Nyambe’s contract.

@1960maaan you’ve left out Weimann!

My hunch is unless we move any of the existing squad on, (Moore, Nagy & Palmer being possibles) we are looking at 6 signings;

2 central defenders (Vyner at RB), a wide midfielder & a central one & a striker (unless he sees Weimann as one) in which case another midfielder, plus a full back if he thinks Pring isn’t up to covering Dasilva, who realistically isn’t going to suddenly start playing 40+ games a season.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

@JonDolman being reported that Blackburn have activated the extension clause in Nyambe’s contract.

@1960maaan you’ve left out Weimann!

My hunch is unless we move any of the existing squad on, (Moore, Nagy & Palmer being possibles) we are looking at 6 signings;

2 central defenders (Vyner at RB), a wide midfielder & a central one & a striker (unless he sees Weimann as one) in which case another midfielder, plus a full back if he thinks Pring isn’t up to covering Dasilva, who realistically isn’t going to suddenly start playing 40+ games a season.

Bum

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

 

@1960maaan you’ve left out Weimann!

My hunch is unless we move any of the existing squad on, (Moore, Nagy & Palmer being possibles) we are looking at 6 signings;

2 central defenders (Vyner at RB), a wide midfielder & a central one & a striker (unless he sees Weimann as one) in which case another midfielder, plus a full back if he thinks Pring isn’t up to covering Dasilva, who realistically isn’t going to suddenly start playing 40+ games a season.

Weimann isn't a done deal yet, I think he will sign but at the moment it's an offer apparently. He could be the wide MF I mentioned, his energy could be key. Plus he can fill a central role. 
I think Vyner will be best as a CB, but it didn't do Carey any harm leaning at RB TBF. 
Judging by what I've seen & heard, Pring will be good for 10 games or so. 
IMO we need quality, we've had quantity over the years. We need players to come in to really make a difference to the team , not squad. That may cost, so I'm not sure we have funds to do it all in one go.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I don't agree about 4th from bottom but at the same time, I don't expect big things next season either- yet an improvement ie a significant improvement to the injury situation would certainly help matters.

Can't be a quick fix though, don't see how.

[Simon bristol]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

A more upbeat take on what Nige has to do this summer - he will be pretty much starting from scratch something he did when he took over at Leicester so this rebuild will not be a new experience  for him.

More good news is that he’s already seen what he needs in terms of players and knows  that strengthening defensively will be an absolute priority. It would be no surprise to see a brand new defensive line up come August. Who those players will depends on who is available and how much wriggle room he’ll have in terms of finances. He may well be looking to move Kalas on to help facilitate that.

With Weimann and Williams fully fit again the midfield will look very different and if Williams is a useful as his reputation suggests then those two along with Massengo could form a decent middle three.

Up top. Martin will be available again along with Semenyo and Wells and with a more creative midfield goalscoring should much healthier than the last dismal campaign.

I’m only including players already at the club and as yet none of know what players Nige may bring in so that remains an unknown..............

All that said, like all managers Nige will need time to rebuild and none of us should expect impressive performances and positive results from the off. Patience will be required........

Have to agree, if we had had weimann, williams dasilva and martin available for us more last season, that would have made some difference. For us to sign 7/8 new players and they all come in and be successful seems a stretch, but players such as nick powell, or kabano from fulham are the type of quality we need, if possible.

[mozo]

6 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Have to agree, if we had had weimann, williams dasilva and martin available for us more last season, that would have made some difference. For us to sign 7/8 new players and they all come in and be successful seems a stretch, but players such as nick powell, or kabano from fulham are the type of quality we need, if possible.

I'm not sure the difference would have got us too far up mid table though!

[BLRed]

We need a balance to the playing squad. We also need an abundance of pace, power and athleticism to our run and out play the opposition. These should form the basis of our recruitment.

to add to that, we need technically good forward players who can take on and beat people regularly whilst also being able to cross a ball with quality and beat the first man.

its hard to know from what’s listed above who out there offers those qualities but I just hope the big man has some contacts that really help surprise us when it comes to recruitment.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

I'm not sure the difference would have got us too far up mid table though!

We’ll never know. We can only speculate but imo the likes of Williams and Wiemann would surely have made a significant difference. 

[cidered abroad]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

My speculation / guesswork is that NP has Vyner earmarked to be our no1 RB, with Simpson as back-up / rotation.  NP mentioned that Zak needs to concentrate on one position.  Personally I don’t think Zak will ever be a dominant CB.  He did fine as a RCB in a 3 early season, where it was less “heading and kicking”.  He is athletic, lots of stamina, and during his little stint in midfield showed he is a capable footballer on the ball.

One final thing, he has a long throw.  Which I think we should utilise more often.  Generally you don’t want to drag you CM or CB over to take long throws because of the risk in opposition transition.

Gilhespy will be doing some of that….plus you’d expect NP to be calling all of his wide network of contacts for suggestions and opinions.

@Davefevs Do you see us with  back four or back three with wing backs?

Either way I see Vyner as either right side of three or traditional right back. Plus in both styles a ball winner/ leader dominant centre half to his left. Kalas as the other, unless NP decides otherwise.

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

@Davefevs Do you see us with  back four or back three with wing backs?

Either way I see Vyner as either right side of three or traditional right back. Plus in both styles a ball winner/ leader dominant centre half to his left. Kalas as the other, unless NP decides otherwise.

Of course I have no idea how NP will set us up, but I do think it will be a back 4 based system.  The problem he needs to overcome is how that measures up against a lot of teams playing back 5.  As a result, we need energy and organisation.  I think he can bring this.  I’m looking forward to seeing how he structures the team.

[The Constant Rabbit]

I think Weimann may leave.

Do you spend the end of your career (possibly much shorter after that ACL - he is a speed player) in a relegation scrap in the soggy old UK on lesser wages (I assume thats what the 'negotiations' are part of OR:

Do you go to Europe on the same reduced wages to a bigger club in a smaller league, say Holland, Belgium, Portugal or even back home to Austria where the weather is better, you get a winter break, and probably play for a club that will challenge for a cup / title or even entry to a European competition.

He isn't a dead cert to stay.

[redsquirrel]

i was listening to the aftermatch talkin yesterday after the fa  cup when a very sensible liverpool fan said leicesters success this year is largely down to the owners working with the manager to give him what he needs. could there be a similar thing between NP and SL this season with the new ceo just doing the deals instead of running the club?

[LondonBristolian]

I don't think the rebuild - on the playing side - is actually as it big as it first appears.

11 players have left but only 4 of those (Hunt, Mariappa, Lansbury and Diedhiou) have played regularly this season. Watkins, Adelakun and Gilmartin weren't that near the team when fit and Paterson, Rowe, Walsh and Baker all had long spells injured.

We've got Martin, Williams, Weimann (if he accepts the contract), O'Dowda and Dasilva to come back in next season having missed most of the season. I reckon collectively they are better than the four regulars who have departed.   If Cundy and Pring come in next season I think that's a 19 man squad, not including players like Janneh, Pearson, Britton. Bell and Conway who might be around the team next season.

By my reckoning we only need 3 players (a centre back, a left winger and one of a RB, CB or CM depending on where you see Vyner) to have a 25/26 man squad next year. We might then move players on and get other players in but, once we get those 3 in, from then on we're improving the squad rather than trying to replace what we've lost. 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

i was listening to the aftermatch talkin yesterday after the fa  cup when a very sensible liverpool fan said leicesters success this year is largely down to the owners working with the manager to give him what he needs. could there be a similar thing between NP and SL this season with the new ceo just doing the deals instead of running the club?

I think you want the CEO to be running the club. If the CEO is just doing deals, then you don't really need a CEO at all.

The big question is whether you want the CEO to be running football and recruitment operations. Hopefully, from the sounds of it, the plan is to recruit someone specialist to do that rather than it being the CEO themselves. That can only be a good thing.