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Ye Olde Formations


Davefevs
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25 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

@Pongo I think your first side is spot on except Wimshurst at right back and Gordon Parr alongsideJack Connor.

Gibbo once said publically with a big smile on his face, that Jack Connor was the most dangerous attacker he had ever played against. A sardonic remark because Jack scored some classic own goals without giving Gibbo any chance of saving them.

The first time I saw Jack Connor play, he was centre forward for Huddersfield at City on Easter Saturday 1960. City fighting against relegation had beaten Ipswich away on Good Friday. In the 89th minute of the Saturday home game at 1-1, Atyeo scored a header at the Covered End. One minute later we had lost 2-3 with Connor scoring twice in a minute. We won again on Easter Monday at home to Ipswich but still went down.

Hence my lifelong realisation that City are masters at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It's not something that Lee Johnson invented!   

Fred Ford, the manager, sort of agreed  with Gibson as I remember he once said that Connor was the best centre forward at the club and played him there. It wasn’t a success as this was only for one match. It was a bit like playing Flint as a forward. Flint is good at corners and the occasional foray forward but hadn’t got the skill to play as a forward for 90 minutes 

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just seen this.

26D0AD06-A98F-4A74-A67E-0EB251367132.thumb.jpeg.b81c1216ce2f79dcfa4fd3982feaec9b.jpeg

Did teams genuinely line up in a 235 formation, or was it just a way of writing the teams down?  If it was really a 235 there must have been overloads aplenty!

Second question.  If that team had to set up in say a 442 or 433 who would play in what position?

Ta

Little before my time, but I only see 3 genuine defenders though I think Ken Wimshurst may have played FB at times.
Reading Inverting the Pyramid I was surprised to see how late the WM system was used, Ramsey didn't sort out his back 4 until 1964 and it was a surprise. I think even coming into the World Cup he didn't play the 442 sort of set up so he could keep it under wraps until the tournament . 
I always remember, and I will add when I started going I stood on the East End so could barely see what was going on, Wimshurst as a Midfielder and Gorden Parr as a Centre Half. Looking at my records book, the following years first game saw Jacobs, Briggs, Parr & Connor start. That looks like a back 4 that more resembled the first one that I remember . Jacobs, Drysdale, Rooks, Parr.

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11 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

The match was a Third round FA Cup tie on Jan 27 1968. Ended 0-0. 37,237 there.

Replay was won 2-1 with goals from Crowe and Galley. 30,157

Parr was a defensive midfielder or centre half, playing at right back, a defensive position. So a back three of Parr, Connor and Briggs with Wimshurst, Bush and Quigley as a midfield three.

Derrick and Lou Peters as two wingers who stuck to the touch line, leaving Crowe and Galley as the main attack.

Bush was a originally a big centre forward converted to midfield. One of four six footers in the defensive part.

Quigley a real tasty tackler, ball winner and a very creative source for the strikers.

As it was a year or two after England's World Cup win with 4-4-2, that is probably how it was set up.

I saw both games.

PS. I took a friends eight year old son to the replay. Six months later he drowned in the Avon near Keynsham. So sad to remember this.

Tragic story about the little boy drowning.  

My first game must have been a few years after this and I've been trying to work out what year it was.  From this team ,although all the names are familiar to me,   only Gibson, Parr, Wimshurst and Galley were regulars by the time my big brother would take me regularly.

I see Chris Garland was on the bench here.  He was the star by the time I started going.   I remember him being picked for England U21's but can't remember the year that was.

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1 hour ago, italian dave said:

So, we’re agreed they didn’t really line up in a 2-3-5 formation in 1968.

Next question. What about this side: did they really line up in that formation. And is there anyone who can remember being at that match?!

 

62567AAD-9AED-44B0-83B4-2ABDBC0837CC.jpeg

Slightly before my time. It’s very difficult to understand formations from bygone periods as the names given to certain positions have changed or become obsolete. For example Fatty Wedlock was a short centre half, which seems strange today, but in his day “centre half” was a central midfield player. Gordon Parr has had a few mentions in this thread and he was a “right half” which won’t mean much to anyone under the age of 40-50

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2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Fred Ford, the manager, sort of agreed  with Gibson as I remember he once said that Connor was the best centre forward at the club and played him there. It wasn’t a success as this was only for one match. It was a bit like playing Flint as a forward. Flint is good at corners and the occasional foray forward but hadn’t got the skill to play as a forward for 90 minutes 

Your memory is good. I think it was at home against Bradford City and while Jack scored in a 1-2 defeat, Ford never repeated the experiment.

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12 hours ago, pongo88 said:

You’re right about Bush. For some strange reason I thought he played in defence as well as centre forward. I now think the formation as posted by @bcfc01 is probably correct;
 

Gibson

Parr Wimshurst Connor Briggs

Derrick Quigley Bush Peters

Crowe Galley

or possibly:

Gibson

Parr Wimshurst Connor Briggs

Derrick Quigley Peters

             Crowe

        Galley. Bush 

The good old days when football was about simply about winning each and every game.

No chessboard tactics, no long-term projects, no pillars.

So no matter how the line up was portrayed in the matchday programme, what really happened was:-

Gibson

Parr Wimshurst Connor Briggs (Defence - "Have it")

Quigley Bush Derrick Crowe Galley Peters (Attack - "Get in there!" )

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12 hours ago, Leveller said:

235 was a distant memory by the 1960s (I was born in 1956) but the traditional positional names were still used even though sometimes misleading. And the shirt numbers reflected that - a number 9 was a centre forward etc.

Pretty much this - 

1 - Goalkeeper

2  - Right Back - in a back four

3 - Left back - in a back four

4 - Right half (normally in fact a midfielder in a 442 or 433)

5 - Centre half (actually the main ball winning central defender)

6 - Left half (normally the other central defender)

7 - Right wing (as now, either a wide forward or wide midfielder)

8 - Inside Right (either a midfielder or second striker)

9 - Centre forward (target man/striker)

10  - Inside left (either a midfielder or second striker)

11 - Left wing (as right wing)

So, for a long time the names and numbers reflected a 235 setup that no loner existed on the pitch.

 

Just as I remember it and as i lined up back in the 60's, playing right back

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2 hours ago, italian dave said:

So, we’re agreed they didn’t really line up in a 2-3-5 formation in 1968.

Next question. What about this side: did they really line up in that formation.

62567AAD-9AED-44B0-83B4-2ABDBC0837CC.jpeg

Yes.

As for the cup tie against Third Division Rovers in 68, City's players wore the following numbers for this particular game:

1. Gibson 2. Parr 3. Briggs 4. Wimshurst 5. Connor 6. Bush 7. Derrick 8. Crowe 9. Galley 10. Quigley 11. Peters 

Edited by Merrick's Marvels
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I remember setting up my subbuteo teams in 2-3-5 formations.  Mind you, we had a lot of injuries in those days too - mostly from my knee coming down on some poor player's head snapping him at the shins!  Still, my medical team were handy with the glue.

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18 minutes ago, cheese said:

I remember setting up my subbuteo teams in 2-3-5 formations.  Mind you, we had a lot of injuries in those days too - mostly from my knee coming down on some poor player's head snapping him at the shins!  Still, my medical team were handy with the glue.

Can you do hamstrings?

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3 hours ago, Daniro said:

Tragic story about the little boy drowning.  

My first game must have been a few years after this and I've been trying to work out what year it was.  From this team ,although all the names are familiar to me,   only Gibson, Parr, Wimshurst and Galley were regulars by the time my big brother would take me regularly.

I see Chris Garland was on the bench here.  He was the star by the time I started going.   I remember him being picked for England U21's but can't remember the year that was.

I watched that game too, reacon it was 71/72

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6 hours ago, Daniro said:

Tragic story about the little boy drowning.  

My first game must have been a few years after this and I've been trying to work out what year it was.  From this team ,although all the names are familiar to me,   only Gibson, Parr, Wimshurst and Galley were regulars by the time my big brother would take me regularly.

I see Chris Garland was on the bench here.  He was the star by the time I started going.   I remember him being picked for England U21's but can't remember the year that was.

@Daniro

On the way back from an away game up north we had to change trains and stations at Sheffield. So into a chippie we went. Twelve or thirteen year old Chris Garland asked for "a'elot" (*). The poor woman serving could not understand what he wanted until one of our more educated ones translated the south Bristle dialect.

And on the same subject in a chippie near Victoria Ground, Stoke, one City fan got very angry because the didn't sell " Clark's pies".

* Hake and chips

Edited by cidered abroad
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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

@Daniro

On the way back from an away game up north we had to change trains and stations at Sheffield. So into a chippie we went. Twelve or thirteen year old Chris Garland asked for "a'elot" (*). The poor woman serving could not understand what he wanted until one of our more educated ones translated the south Bristle dialect.

And on the same subject in a chippie near Victoria Ground, Stoke, one City fan got very angry because the didn't sell " Clark's pies".

* Hake and chips

@cidered abroad 

Haha!  Can't imagine the prima donna's of today travelling on public transport.

 

I remember John Galley came to my mate's 10th birthday party.  I think I still got his autograph somewhere .   

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8 hours ago, cheese said:

I remember setting up my subbuteo teams in 2-3-5 formations.  Mind you, we had a lot of injuries in those days too - mostly from my knee coming down on some poor player's head snapping him at the shins!  Still, my medical team were handy with the glue.

Most of my teams had quite a few vertically challenged.

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1 hour ago, Daniro said:

@cidered abroad 

Haha!  Can't imagine the prima donna's of today travelling on public transport.

 

I remember John Galley came to my mate's 10th birthday party.  I think I still got his autograph somewhere .   

@Daniro We often travelled back on trains with the team. Even got a bottle of beer once from Bert Tindill.

Several times we travelled to games with Fred Ford, the team had gone earlier, and spent hours talking football. Very interesting for us.

Also at Grimsby, a couple of years in succession, we spent the mornings at the beach funfair with the players on the dodgems. Can you imagine that now?

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11 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

@Daniro We often travelled back on trains with the team. Even got a bottle of beer once from Bert Tindill.

Several times we travelled to games with Fred Ford, the team had gone earlier, and spent hours talking football. Very interesting for us.

Also at Grimsby, a couple of years in succession, we spent the mornings at the beach funfair with the players on the dodgems. Can you imagine that now?

I think the players would be up for that, even now - maybe not the management/club though :no:

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22 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

The match was a Third round FA Cup tie on Jan 27 1968. Ended 0-0. 37,237 there.

Replay was won 2-1 with goals from Crowe and Galley. 30,157

Parr was a defensive midfielder or centre half, playing at right back, a defensive position. So a back three of Parr, Connor and Briggs with Wimshurst, Bush and Quigley as a midfield three.

Derrick and Lou Peters as two wingers who stuck to the touch line, leaving Crowe and Galley as the main attack.

Bush was a originally a big centre forward converted to midfield. One of four six footers in the defensive part.

Quigley a real tasty tackler, ball winner and a very creative source for the strikers.

As it was a year or two after England's World Cup win with 4-4-2, that is probably how it was set up.

I saw both games.

PS. I took a friends eight year old son to the replay. Six months later he drowned in the Avon near Keynsham. So sad to remember this.

Yep, this is correct, I was at this game too. 

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