ohhhshauntaylor Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 Harsh but true. Andi Weimann has 0/none/zero/Zilch promotions on his CV. hes recovering from a substantial injury. The rumoured £20k p/w can be better spent. I like him, BUT he isn’t essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 When Weimann got injured we lost mutch of the way we played. The team was weaker without him. For me he was a very important player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewquayRed Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 Has to be no more than a squad player if we are going to challenge again at some point and should only be kept if he’s happy with that and the salary it comes with - feels like he’s off to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 12 hours ago, cityloyal473 said: NP has talked about players wanting to be here. If AW only wants to be here for money (and that’s what this seems like otherwise he’d sign) then jog on. Are you going to be telling your boss on Monday that you aren’t in it for the money and will accept a pay cut? If not, don’t expect principles of others that you do not hold of yourself. That aside, there is a subtle but important distinction between money and value. If someone offered you £50, 000 a year to do a job then most people would see that as a very good salary but you’d feel differently if you were currently being paid £60, 000 a year to do the exact same thing and you’d feel differently again if you are getting £50, 000 and a mate doing the exact same job at the exact same company told you they were getting £55, 000. If Weimann is being offered less money to do a job he is already doing for us - and his colleagues, who are not out of contract, are not getting a wage cut - the issue may be about not feeling valued rather than only caring about the money. The two are different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, NewquayRed said: Has to be no more than a squad player if we are going to challenge again at some point and should only be kept if he’s happy with that and the salary it comes with - feels like he’s off to me For me next season Will be to avoid relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 hours ago, JonDolman said: Agree. I'd like him to stay on because of his work rate and versatility. But the injury is something to think about. And if he won't accept about half his current wage then maybe it's best to let him go. And I'm wondering where does Nige see his best role in our side. I reckon he'd probably play him wide right or left. If so then he's always done a job out wide, but never looked great there imo. But who knows what Nige is thinking. For me this last season was his best performances playing in a box to box role. Would you accept half your current wage if push come to shove? I get that footballers are paid obscene amounts of money, even at this level, but to turn around and say "you need to accept half your current wage because you've been injured for the past x amount of months" is to be quite honest ridiculous. Can imagine it now.... "Congratulations on the baby news, you must all be so excited. By the way you're not getting £20k a week anymore, we're going to offer you £10k instead, and if you don't like it, do one". If he can't get what he feels is right here, he'll get it (or something similar ) from somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 3 hours ago, JonDolman said: Agree. I'd like him to stay on because of his work rate and versatility. But the injury is something to think about. And if he won't accept about half his current wage then maybe it's best to let him go. And I'm wondering where does Nige see his best role in our side. I reckon he'd probably play him wide right or left. If so then he's always done a job out wide, but never looked great there imo. But who knows what Nige is thinking. For me this last season was his best performances playing in a box to box role. He pretty much always played wide in a 442, rather than a 4231 per se. I really like Weimann, I’m all for keeping him….but at the right wage, especially coming back from a serious injury. Club are being cautious, and rightly so….and probably a bit ruthless too. Rumour is City want to effectively spread his deal over 2 years, so circa £10k p.w. for 2 years rather that option which was circa £20k for one year. It appears (I’m speculating though) that the club option has not been exercised, so it’s 2 years at £10k, take it or leave it. If you put your feet in Weimann’s shoes (boots), with no club option as a bargaining tool, it’s do you fancy your chances of getting a deal elsewhere or are you better off staying here. Can you get more than £10k and / or more than 1 year. My opinion is he won’t sign. Will be a big shame but I think NP must reckon he can bring in the right players at the right fees / frees and wages to not have to go with the demands of Weimann. I don’t blame Weimann either. Just one of those things. 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: Are you going to be telling your boss on Monday that you aren’t in it for the money and will accept a pay cut? If not, don’t expect principles of others that you do not hold of yourself. That aside, there is a subtle but important distinction between money and value. If someone offered you £50, 000 a year to do a job then most people would see that as a very good salary but you’d feel differently if you were currently being paid £60, 000 a year to do the exact same thing and you’d feel differently again if you are getting £50, 000 and a mate doing the exact same job at the exact same company told you they were getting £55, 000. If Weimann is being offered less money to do a job he is already doing for us - and his colleagues, who are not out of contract, are not getting a wage cut - the issue may be about not feeling valued rather than only caring about the money. The two are different things. I’m not sure your middle para works in football. Think it’s accepted that in a normal football-wage inflation environment that the player who signed his contract last summer is likely to fall behind the player who signed this summer. When yours comes round again, you’ll be back on more than the other….it’s just a cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 4 hours ago, JonDolman said: But the injury is something to think about. And if he won't accept about half his current wage then maybe it's best to let him go. Your chatting shit again.....hyperbole. This "idea" in reality,,wherever you are,,is a nonstarter - a flawed concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Son of Fred said: Your chatting shit again... This "idea" in reality,,wherever you are,,is a nonstarter - a flawed concept. What’s the flawed concept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: What’s the flawed concept? It doesn't work in the real world at all...it really doesn't. If I've stepped on your corn then that's not always a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Son of Fred said: It doesn't work in the real world at all...it really doesn't. What doesn’t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, Davefevs said: He pretty much always played wide in a 442, rather than a 4231 per se. I really like Weimann, I’m all for keeping him….but at the right wage, especially coming back from a serious injury. Club are being cautious, and rightly so….and probably a bit ruthless too. Rumour is City want to effectively spread his deal over 2 years, so circa £10k p.w. for 2 years rather that option which was circa £20k for one year. It appears (I’m speculating though) that the club option has not been exercised, so it’s 2 years at £10k, take it or leave it. If you put your feet in Weimann’s shoes (boots), with no club option as a bargaining tool, it’s do you fancy your chances of getting a deal elsewhere or are you better off staying here. Can you get more than £10k and / or more than 1 year. My opinion is he won’t sign. Will be a big shame but I think NP must reckon he can bring in the right players at the right fees / frees and wages to not have to go with the demands of Weimann. I don’t blame Weimann either. Just one of those things. I’m not sure your middle para works in football. Think it’s accepted that in a normal football-wage inflation environment that the player who signed his contract last summer is likely to fall behind the player who signed this summer. When yours comes round again, you’ll be back on more than the other….it’s just a cycle. Sure - but if the club were boasting record high offers to Diedhiou - another player out of contract at the time - then I can see how Weimann could be aggrieved at now being asked to take a wage cut as the club is short of cash. Weimann has probably contributed more than Diedhiou during the time they have both been at the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosey Boy Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 With you on this one @Davefevs - personally don’t see AW staying. City are however, right to be cautious given his injury and the fact that NP has to spend whatever funds he has in the right areas....:.Nige certainly isn’t taking any prisoners this summer by the looks of it which is refreshing to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosey Boy Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Sure - but if the club were boasting record high offers to Diedhiou - another player out of contract at the time - then I can see how Weimann could be aggrieved at now being asked to take a wage cut as the club is short of cash. Weimann has probably contributed more than Diedhiou during the time they have both been at the club... Based on Fam’s comments this week, I think we all know that Ashton’s comments regarding the offer we put to him to be fabricated.....it was clearly nowhere near the weekly wage being suggested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Sure - but if the club were boasting record high offers to Diedhiou - another player out of contract at the time - then I can see how Weimann could be aggrieved at now being asked to take a wage cut as the club is short of cash. Weimann has probably contributed more than Diedhiou during the time they have both been at the club... As a big fan of Famara, I think Weimann has. No inside knowledge but I think a few on here will be surprised where he ends up & sadly it won’t be with us. I look forward to reading a lot of Korey Smith type hindsight if it does.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 I’m liking the fact that the club seem to finally being pragmatic with their money. Especially after loaning two players in two years on very high wages who then missed almost their entire respective seasons with injury. The club have stuck by Weimann through his injury and are offering him a new deal. But if he thinks he can do better elsewhere and we think we can get a better investment elsewhere for the money he is demanding, then I am completely at peace with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT The Optimist Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 Some good points all round re AW and sorry to see him leave. No one can doubt he gave 100% for the cause. However NP has not seen him in the shirt for us due to his injury but did he have him at Derby ? Either way perhaps NP thinks there is better value for money out their. I recall LJ saying when we signed him that they thought he was out of our range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 57 minutes ago, Davefevs said: He pretty much always played wide in a 442, rather than a 4231 per se. I really like Weimann, I’m all for keeping him….but at the right wage, especially coming back from a serious injury. Club are being cautious, and rightly so….and probably a bit ruthless too. Rumour is City want to effectively spread his deal over 2 years, so circa £10k p.w. for 2 years rather that option which was circa £20k for one year. It appears (I’m speculating though) that the club option has not been exercised, so it’s 2 years at £10k, take it or leave it. If you put your feet in Weimann’s shoes (boots), with no club option as a bargaining tool, it’s do you fancy your chances of getting a deal elsewhere or are you better off staying here. Can you get more than £10k and / or more than 1 year. My opinion is he won’t sign. Will be a big shame but I think NP must reckon he can bring in the right players at the right fees / frees and wages to not have to go with the demands of Weimann. I don’t blame Weimann either. Just one of those things. I’m not sure your middle para works in football. Think it’s accepted that in a normal football-wage inflation environment that the player who signed his contract last summer is likely to fall behind the player who signed this summer. When yours comes round again, you’ll be back on more than the other….it’s just a cycle. The cycle has well and truly stopped as clubs have had virtually no income for over a year. What we will see now is this in reverse for at least 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Taz said: Would you accept half your current wage if push come to shove? I get that footballers are paid obscene amounts of money, even at this level, but to turn around and say "you need to accept half your current wage because you've been injured for the past x amount of months" is to be quite honest ridiculous. Can imagine it now.... "Congratulations on the baby news, you must all be so excited. By the way you're not getting £20k a week anymore, we're going to offer you £10k instead, and if you don't like it, do one". If he can't get what he feels is right here, he'll get it (or something similar ) from somewhere else. Andi Weimann probably bought his flat in central Bristol straight. No mortgage. He would've been able to buy one per year for his 3 seasons and still lived the life of riley with his family. If his wage is halved he won't be able to buy another property. That is the financial impact for him. If my wage was halved my earnings would immediately fall below my outgoings. Massively different impact. It's a different world. If he wants to uproot his family (kids in school etc) or commute from Bristol to somewhere else for a bit more money then that's his choice and one I would respect. But don't characterise this as an insult or being ridiculous. It's not. There is nothing wrong with our stance here. It's the only way to deal with the huge drop in income - reduce your outgoings and in football that means player wages as they count for about 98% of our income under normal circumstances. This year they probably count for 1000% of our income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Sure - but if the club were boasting record high offers to Diedhiou - another player out of contract at the time - then I can see how Weimann could be aggrieved at now being asked to take a wage cut as the club is short of cash. Weimann has probably contributed more than Diedhiou during the time they have both been at the club... Agree. 9 minutes ago, The Bard said: The cycle has well and truly stopped as clubs have had virtually no income for over a year. What we will see now is this in reverse for at least 2 years. Yep, we are no longer in a wage-inflation scenario. A couple of years of “get what you can / ride it out” imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Agree. Yep, we are no longer in a wage-inflation scenario. A couple of years of “get what you can / ride it out” imho. It will last until most contracts signed pre-covid run down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, marcofisher said: I’m liking the fact that the club seem to finally being pragmatic with their money. Especially after loaning two players in two years on very high wages who then missed almost their entire respective seasons with injury. The club have stuck by Weimann through his injury and are offering him a new deal. But if he thinks he can do better elsewhere and we think we can get a better investment elsewhere for the money he is demanding, then I am completely at peace with that. Let’s not forget the bigger factor in city’s ability to pay enhanced contracts- they haven’t had fee paying customers for a year and won’t be back to full customer status for some time yet. We were already losing money hand over fist before covid. Players -especially ones that haven’t played for a year - shouldn’t expect to be rewarded with increased salaries or without changes to their current conditions when contracts come up for renewal. It’s basic economics: if I run an organisation and it’s losing Money (and has been without its principle revenues source for a year) I have to make cutbacks. If Weimann thinks he can get better elsewhere then he shouldn’t let the door hit his ass on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 11 hours ago, ohhhshauntaylor said: Harsh but true. Andi Weimann has 0/none/zero/Zilch promotions on his CV. hes recovering from a substantial injury. The rumoured £20k p/w can be better spent. I like him, BUT he isn’t essential. I don't think promotions are relevant in the next two years. 33 minutes ago, The Bard said: Andi Weimann probably bought his flat in central Bristol straight. No mortgage. He would've been able to buy one per year for his 3 seasons and still lived the life of riley with his family. If his wage is halved he won't be able to buy another property. That is the financial impact for him. If my wage was halved my earnings would immediately fall below my outgoings. Massively different impact. It's a different world. If he wants to uproot his family (kids in school etc) or commute from Bristol to somewhere else for a bit more money then that's his choice and one I would respect. But don't characterise this as an insult or being ridiculous. It's not. There is nothing wrong with our stance here. It's the only way to deal with the huge drop in income - reduce your outgoings and in football that means player wages as they count for about 98% of our income under normal circumstances. This year they probably count for 1000% of our income. Don't forget his football career has 5 years maximum left. So the money he earns in that time is his nest egg. Every £1k extra per week makes retirement just that little bit more comfortable/luxurious. He might want to start a business, do charity work. He'll be looking to maximise this final big contract of his playing career and would be daft not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: Let’s not forget the bigger factor in city’s ability to pay enhanced contracts- they haven’t had fee paying customers for a year and won’t be back to full customer status for some time yet. We were already losing money hand over fist before covid. Players -especially ones that haven’t played for a year - shouldn’t expect to be rewarded with increased salaries or without changes to their current conditions when contracts come up for renewal. It’s basic economics: if I run an organisation and it’s losing Money (and has been without its principle revenues source for a year) I have to make cutbacks. If Weimann thinks he can get better elsewhere then he shouldn’t let the door hit his ass on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted May 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: Sure - but if the club were boasting record high offers to Diedhiou - another player out of contract at the time - then I can see how Weimann could be aggrieved at now being asked to take a wage cut as the club is short of cash. Weimann has probably contributed more than Diedhiou during the time they have both been at the club... Weird wasn't it, the approach taken by MA? Pre-Christmas, we're talking to people (Walsh, Fammy etc). Post Christmas, we're not having any discussions at all. Then out of the blue, "We've offered Fammy one the biggest contracts in the history of the club". When saying that basically everyone else will have to take lower offers, or no contract at all. Then when NP is appointed, SL does an interview saying he will be supported in building a new squad. We get rid/release 11 of our first team squad, many on high wages. We then turn around, and evidenced through the saga of AW, that we are really really cutting our cloth. So many mixed messages from City over the last 6 months; that have just caused confusion no doubt amongst the players, and supporters alike. Moving forward, our communication has got to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonRobin21 Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 I really like Weimann in terms of application and effort. However, from a statistical point of view, he doesn't bring eye-catching numbers. Perhaps 5-8 goals a season, and 5+ assists. 20k a week seems abit steep for that statistical return. There are players who could match/better those stats, and earn less money per week. Add in the long-term injury (which can often re-occur), then I feel the club are well within their right to offer reduced terms. It's a shame as he seems a model professional. Yet, with Weimann approaching 30 and recovering from a long-term injury, it may be the correct time to seek an alternative replacement and save wages at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: Sure - but if the club were boasting record high offers to Diedhiou - another player out of contract at the time - then I can see how Weimann could be aggrieved at now being asked to take a wage cut as the club is short of cash. Weimann has probably contributed more than Diedhiou during the time they have both been at the club... *If* true, the Diedhiou just shows what a tool MA was. And yep, based on that I agree. Taking that aside, I understand exactly what they are doing with Weimann. AW seems too intelligent to be that surprised (supposed FD offfer aside) that City didn't want to take up the one year option. Given that many Championship players are/or have been on artificlally high contracts City's valuation is probably close (but below) the market level. We'll see. I just hope they got a replacement lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said: I really like Weimann in terms of application and effort. However, from a statistical point of view, he doesn't bring eye-catching numbers. Perhaps 5-8 goals a season, and 5+ assists. 20k a week seems abit steep for that statistical return. There are players who could match/better those stats, and earn less money per week. Add in the long-term injury (which can often re-occur), then I feel the club are well within their right to offer reduced terms. It's a shame as he seems a model professional. Yet, with Weimann approaching 30 and recovering from a long-term injury, it may be the correct time to seek an alternative replacement and save wages at the same time. His goals return is a bit better than that, and played a lot in wide positions and attacking midfield roles. If we can get a wide forward who can hit those numbers for £10k p.w. that will be great. I have no problem if that’s Weimann either. As you say, in these times, £20k p.w. we need more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 The effort and energy is not in doubt. If Nige and his team can make his overall game better then I am happy to have him stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said: I really like Weimann in terms of application and effort. However, from a statistical point of view, he doesn't bring eye-catching numbers. Perhaps 5-8 goals a season, and 5+ assists. 20k a week seems abit steep for that statistical return. There are players who could match/better those stats, and earn less money per week. Add in the long-term injury (which can often re-occur), then I feel the club are well within their right to offer reduced terms. It's a shame as he seems a model professional. Yet, with Weimann approaching 30 and recovering from a long-term injury, it may be the correct time to seek an alternative replacement and save wages at the same time. A lot of very good points there and make a lot of sense. The problem I see is rather than upgrade players, we’ve had a bit of a habit of late of bringing in inferior replacements. Hopefully that’ll change with MA gone, but considering we already have a massive rebuilding project on our hands, it’s a big risk unloading a player who would surely fit perfectly into NP’s style if play. I really hope we aren’t displaying very short-sighted penny pinching, because if we are, I can’t see NP being around for very long. On the other hand, it may just be as you say, that there are concerns that AW won’t be the same player post injury and could mean him being a very costly member on the treatment table. We’re certainly going to miss the energy and professionalism of a fully fit Andi Weimann if we don’t find a suitable replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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