The OTIB derby - Sunderland vs Lincoln match day thread

[JackofromSanJavier]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Christ. You’re like me on steroids!

Keep out of the evidence locker!

[Selred]

17 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

For the not so selective conspiracists he went from Yeovil to Hearts where you could count his appearances on the fingers of one hand and still have spare. Played there under two managers, the latter of which sought to use him but once in the six months prior to getting rid. But who was the manager who took him north of the border & how does he tie into the Johnson dynasty? Well, he's the bloke who scored the finest goal I've seen scored at AG, who worked closely with GJ in Watford's coaching set-up but who had one or two 'skeletons' in his cupboard. Skeletons that, once made public, brought about his downfall. 

Coincidence or favour? I guess we'll never know?

 

Just looking into it, Rix was a scout at Watford, not a coach, and the skeletons were in 99, and he managed Hearts in 2005. Doesn't look like this is fully accurate? 

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Red Exile said:

I was looking at matches he started, in other words was first choice, but you are right.

Shortly after GJ was sacked I was sat in the quiet carriage on a train from London to Bristol. About the only other people in it were two City first team regulars who were having a very audible conversation about matters at Ashton Gate. They were discussing LJ's prospects now that his Dad was gone, speculating that he'd never play for the club again. They were wrong, but they knew his days were numbered.

On a rare occasion I was in the Director's box at Ashton Gate I expressed surprise to one of the directors that Paul Hartley wasn't in the starting line-up, and LJ was. I recall I was loudly contemptuous of LJ's capabilities compared to Hartley. It was suggested that I keep my voice down as the extended Johnson family were in the room, as they were.

Much as I loved the GJ years, and think him a very effective lower league manager, a whiff of nepotism has long lingered at Ashton Gate, which only briefly cleared under Cotts. It's to be hoped that we are returning to a more professional and ruthless approach.

In a way I feel sorry for LJ, he has had to endure these accusations of nepotism all his life.

In another way , what a jammy git he is. He’s earned a fortune from the game , in large part because of it.

 The French have a lovely expression for this type of thing 

‘ Il pete plus haut que son cul’ 

I’ll let you find the translation ! 

[BTRFTG]

16 minutes ago, Selred said:

Just looking into it, Rix was a scout at Watford, not a coach, and the skeletons were in 99, and he managed Hearts in 2005. Doesn't look like this is fully accurate? 

Who worked with GJ at Watford whilst signing on the Sex-Offenders Registry. Of course underage girls wasn't the only skeleton Rix had in his cupboard & that landed him in the press in a very unsavoury light. Those allegations didn't fully emerge until a few years ago and were so serious Chelsea, his employer at the time of the alleged offenses, commissioned an independent inquiry the results of which were passed to the Police.

As I say, coincidence or favour?

[BTRFTG]

10 hours ago, NickJ said:

I could find no mention of him in the Arsenal archives,

Archives which are most detailed and informative, if only because the season he was there(?) was the first season of the FA Premier Youth League.

Interesting to note the 'ex City player' who featured in Arsenal's first team squad that season, though given the single minute he played for Arsenal in the League Cup was fully sixty seconds more than he ever played for us.

[Robbored]

10 hours ago, NickJ said:

From his playing stats I make it well over 400 for his dad from 472 in all competitions.

 

A look at his playing career.

Was an apprentice, according to his wiki, at Arsenal (though years ago when this was claimed, I could find no mention of him in the Arsenal archives, whereas I did find David Noble who Johnson claims to have been at Arsenal with at the same time as), wiki says that following a feud with a coach, he left Arsenal (wonder what that feud was about) for Brentford where he didn't get a game and then to Brighton where, as his wiki page says, failed to get into the squad.

So his dad signed him for Yeovil, where he played almost 200 games, mostly at non league and lower league level. My only recollection of Johnson at Yeovil was a televised game where following a ball being kicked out of play by an opposition player to allow treatment for a Yeovil injury, Johnson, in an attempt to pass back to their keeper who was stood outside of his penalty area, managed to send it sailing over the keepers head into the open goal, an "accident" (unless he really was that rubbish) which prompted his dad to order the Yeovil players to allow the opposition to walk the ball into their net to level it up.

Got an unexpected transfer to Hearts, where he made 5 appearances, 2 as substitute, was not selected at all towards the end of his 9 month stay there, before being signed by his dad again at Bristol City, and was involved in an incident in his first game at Huddersfield (I was there) where the opposition manager Peter Jackson was sent to the stands after grabbing Johnson around the neck (makes you wonder what could have happened to provoke a normally reasonable person to do such a thing). Was more or less guaranteed a place in the starting line up at Bristol City until his dad was sacked following an incident at half time at Plymouth (makes you wonder what could have happened for a football manager to be provoked into attacking one of his own players).

Subsequently, under Keith Millen, he made the starting line up for less than a third of the games.

Perhaps this was just a case of one manager "not fancying" Johnson, although it had happened before, at Brentford, Brighton and Hearts, nevertheless with one year of his Bristol City contract left, Johnson was 29 years old and theoretically, with all that Championship experience behind him, a solid acquisition for another Championship team.

Which Championship teams wanted him? None, so he was loaned out to Chesterfield, where he was selected 13 times for a team that was relegated from League One. Not being "fancied" by the manager at Chesterfield, Johnson then managed to get a transfer to Kilmarnock,where he made 23 appearances, even playing in the Scottish cup final, until eventually his starts became more sporadic and his contract was mutually terminated in January 2013 when just 31 years old. There aren't many footballers that have their contracts mutually terminated, and there aren't many footballers that retire at that age...........

So it would be a fact to say that of the several managers which Johnson was available for, it was only his dad that "fancied him".

That's all fact and in my opinion that's because he was a shockingly ineffective footballer - couldn't tackle, no pace, no inventiveness, rarely scored - from what I saw of him in the Championship.

I would suggest that even those who don't think he was shocking would have to agree that there is no way that Johnson would have played anywhere near the number of Championship games as he did if his manager hadn't been manager, thus the resentment and ill feeling towards Lee Johnson.

 

On to the managerial career.

Began with less than impressive spells as manager of Oldham (a club which he said he loved) and Barnsley (a club which he said he loved) in league 1. While at Oldham made an enemy of Paddy Kenny, who has made less than positive comments about Johnson in his autobiography and rejoiced in Sunderland's recent play off defeat, referring to Johnson as a "weapon" (makes you wonder what could have happened to make Kenny so angry - well this one is public knowledge, as Kenny's autobiography refers to, the classy [cowardly] public humiliation inflicted by Johnson on Kenny during a game).

Was surprisingly appointed manager at Bristol City (a club where he was paid millions as a player and manager but most importantly, for some fans [love the naivety], said he "loved") in the Championship, whereupon Steve Lansdown showered the gobshite with the sort of funds which the amazingly successful but ultimately and unfairly (my opinion) sacked predecessor Steve Cotterill could only have dreamed about. Said he would need 5 transfer windows (clever move) and despite 2 record breaking losing streaks was given 8, with the funds still rolling into his transfer pot. 

Managerial career at Bristol City characterized by scattergun signings of players (not blamable on Ashton because right at the start Johnson categorically said he he had right of veto), embarrassing Davis Brentisms, wankerish antics such as measuring the grass (at Sunderland, again I was there), bullying of certain players, and constant and cowardly blame shifting.

All the while wearing a constant smug self assured smirk.

 

To say I can't take to him would be an under statement.

NickJ - what a fantastic post. Absolutely spot on in every category and you weren’t the only City fan who didn’t take to him him either............

When he was appointed I was prepared to give the guy a chance, I understood his remit and was initially impressed with the way he’d conducted interviews. However that good impression soon wore off and it wasn’t long before I could see that was out of his depth and he then began to serve the same shit style of football as his dad had done and that did it for me. I was delighted when he finally got sacked.

I posted a few days ago that LJ lives in the shadow of his dad. An unfortunate cross to bear.

Then after weeks of dithering Ashton and invisible Jon appointed Deano who despite being a top bloke was also out of his depth. He didn’t last long and when SL got directly involved Nige was appointed within 72 hours. Initially his remit was to retain Championship status and once that was done he gets a three year contract.

Nige is only the second City manager to have a Championship promotion on his CV. A guy like him should have been appointed after SC got the boot. Hindsight is wonderful tho.

Nige also fully understands what a giant task he’s taken on but I remain cautiously optimistic that he’ll do a good job.

 

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Robbored said:

NickJ - what a fantastic post. Absolutely spot on in every category and you weren’t the only City fan who didn’t take to him him either............

When he was appointed I was prepared to give the guy a chance, I understood his remit and was initially impressed with the way he’d conducted interviews. However that good impression soon wore off and it wasn’t long before I could see that was out of his depth and he then began to serve the same shit style of football as his dad had done and that did it for me. I was delighted when he finally got sacked.

Hmm, I remember you being pretty patient with LJ. That's no bad thing necessarily. 

Just now, Robbored said:

I posted a few days ago that LJ lives in the shadow of his dad. An unfortunate cross to bear.

Then after weeks of dithering Ashton and invisible Jon appointed Deano who despite being a top bloke was also out of his depth. He didn’t last long and when SL got directly involved Nige was appointed within 72 hours. Initially his remit was to retain Championship status and once that was done he gets a three year contract.

It does tickle me that you feel the need to mansplain obvious and well known facts like this as if it's new to people on this forum 

 

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I posted a few days ago that LJ lives in the shadow of his dad.

Blimey, even battery farmed chickens get more space than that..

[Selred]

23 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Who worked with GJ at Watford whilst signing on the Sex-Offenders Registry. Of course underage girls wasn't the only skeleton Rix had in his cupboard & that landed him in the press in a very unsavoury light. Those allegations didn't fully emerge until a few years ago and were so serious Chelsea, his employer at the time of the alleged offenses, commissioned an independent inquiry the results of which were passed to the Police.

As I say, coincidence or favour?

Can you give me sources of Rix and GJ working together?

He was in Prison in 99. And on the sex offenders list. What has changed since, apart from Racism claims? Can you give me sources?

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Hmm, I remember you being pretty patient with LJ. That's no bad thing necessarily. 

It does tickle me that you feel the need to mansplain obvious and well known facts like this as if it's new to people on this forum 

 

Well PF if you find my posts tedious and repetitive you know what to do.

[Sturny]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Hmm, I remember you being pretty patient with LJ. That's no bad thing necessarily. 

It does tickle me that you feel the need to mansplain obvious and well known facts like this as if it's new to people on this forum 

 

What does the fact he's a man have to do with anything? Stupid word to use

[Sturny]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Well PF if you find my posts tedious and repetitive you know what to do.

Meet at The Apple and drink some dodgy cider and talk about each other's feelings? 

[Red Exile]

33 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

In a way I feel sorry for LJ, he has had to endure these accusations of nepotism all his life.

In another way , what a jammy git he is. He’s earned a fortune from the game , in large part because of it.

 The French have a lovely expression for this type of thing 

‘ Il pete plus haut que son cul’ 

I’ll let you find the translation ! 

Thing is - if you want to be considered a success on your own terms you don't follow your relations from job to job. If you want your children to be considered a success in their own right you don't employ them yourself.

I know plenty of caring parents want to shelter their children, and recognise that plenty of businesses pass from one generation to another, but it does few favours for the reputations of later generations.

Professional organisations don't tolerate this sort of thing, or should at the very least question and challenge it. We've seen too much of it at Ashton Gate right up to the present day.

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Well PF if you find my posts tedious and repetitive you know what to do.

No I love your posts - just also enjoy giving you a bit of stick here and there as you also do to others 

10 minutes ago, Sturny said:

What does the fact he's a man have to do with anything? Stupid word to use

Don't take it so seriously, we're having a joke. 

[Sturny]

10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No I love your posts - just also enjoy giving you a bit of stick here and there as you also do to others 

Don't take it so seriously, we're having a joke. 

Don't mansplain what a joke is to me Phileas 

[NickJ]

5 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

According to the man himself he left Arsenal Youth ( whatever that means) for Watford Youth.

Guess who was coaching at Watford part-time?

Thanks yes, I'd forgotten that part.

3 hours ago, Selred said:

Selective memory here. He went to Derby on a month long loan, they wanted to extend it but City refused.

And who said they wanted to extend and City refused? 

Aah yes, Lee (and Gary) Johnson said they wanted to extend and City refused.

[cidercity1987]

It was bloody impressive going from the foot of League One to the Championship play off final, all with only 10 men for the two years.

The way you lot are going on...

[BCFCGav]

Maybe Johnson has a 'smug smirk' (as people have put it) is because those who don't like him still obsessively talk about him a year on...

He oversaw some very exciting, and always safe from the drop, Championship campaigns. Bumped into him in the mall, and he was friendly and happy to have a quick chat about City despite seeming busy. He's fine by me.

 

 

[Selred]

2 hours ago, NickJ said:

Thanks yes, I'd forgotten that part.

And who said they wanted to extend and City refused? 

Aah yes, Lee (and Gary) Johnson said they wanted to extend and City refused.

Gary wasn't the manager.... 

[NickJ]

57 minutes ago, Selred said:

Gary wasn't the manager.... 

Loan to Derby - January 2010.

Gary sacked - March 2010.

[Selred]

3 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Loan to Derby - January 2010.

Gary sacked - March 2010.

Ah hands up, you're right there.

But 7 games during his spell, clearly liked by Nigel Clough. 

[MarcusX]

On 25/05/2021 at 23:51, NickJ said:

From his playing stats I make it well over 400 for his dad from 472 in all competitions.

 

A look at his playing career.

Was an apprentice, according to his wiki, at Arsenal (though years ago when this was claimed, I could find no mention of him in the Arsenal archives, whereas I did find David Noble who Johnson claims to have been at Arsenal with at the same time as), wiki says that following a feud with a coach, he left Arsenal (wonder what that feud was about) for Brentford where he didn't get a game and then to Brighton where, as his wiki page says, failed to get into the squad.

So his dad signed him for Yeovil, where he played almost 200 games, mostly at non league and lower league level. My only recollection of Johnson at Yeovil was a televised game where following a ball being kicked out of play by an opposition player to allow treatment for a Yeovil injury, Johnson, in an attempt to pass back to their keeper who was stood outside of his penalty area, managed to send it sailing over the keepers head into the open goal, an "accident" (unless he really was that rubbish) which prompted his dad to order the Yeovil players to allow the opposition to walk the ball into their net to level it up.

Got an unexpected transfer to Hearts, where he made 5 appearances, 2 as substitute, was not selected at all towards the end of his 9 month stay there, before being signed by his dad again at Bristol City, and was involved in an incident in his first game at Huddersfield (I was there) where the opposition manager Peter Jackson was sent to the stands after grabbing Johnson around the neck (makes you wonder what could have happened to provoke a normally reasonable person to do such a thing). Was more or less guaranteed a place in the starting line up at Bristol City until his dad was sacked following an incident at half time at Plymouth (makes you wonder what could have happened for a football manager to be provoked into attacking one of his own players).

Subsequently, under Keith Millen, he made the starting line up for less than a third of the games.

Perhaps this was just a case of one manager "not fancying" Johnson, although it had happened before, at Brentford, Brighton and Hearts, nevertheless with one year of his Bristol City contract left, Johnson was 29 years old and theoretically, with all that Championship experience behind him, a solid acquisition for another Championship team.

Which Championship teams wanted him? None, so he was loaned out to Chesterfield, where he was selected 13 times for a team that was relegated from League One. Not being "fancied" by the manager at Chesterfield, Johnson then managed to get a transfer to Kilmarnock,where he made 23 appearances, even playing in the Scottish cup final, until eventually his starts became more sporadic and his contract was mutually terminated in January 2013 when just 31 years old. There aren't many footballers that have their contracts mutually terminated, and there aren't many footballers that retire at that age...........

So it would be a fact to say that of the several managers which Johnson was available for, it was only his dad that "fancied him".

That's all fact and in my opinion that's because he was a shockingly ineffective footballer - couldn't tackle, no pace, no inventiveness, rarely scored - from what I saw of him in the Championship.

I would suggest that even those who don't think he was shocking would have to agree that there is no way that Johnson would have played anywhere near the number of Championship games as he did if his manager hadn't been manager, thus the resentment and ill feeling towards Lee Johnson.

 

On to the managerial career.

Began with less than impressive spells as manager of Oldham (a club which he said he loved) and Barnsley (a club which he said he loved) in league 1. While at Oldham made an enemy of Paddy Kenny, who has made less than positive comments about Johnson in his autobiography and rejoiced in Sunderland's recent play off defeat, referring to Johnson as a "weapon" (makes you wonder what could have happened to make Kenny so angry - well this one is public knowledge, as Kenny's autobiography refers to, the classy [cowardly] public humiliation inflicted by Johnson on Kenny during a game).

Was surprisingly appointed manager at Bristol City (a club where he was paid millions as a player and manager but most importantly, for some fans [love the naivety], said he "loved") in the Championship, whereupon Steve Lansdown showered the gobshite with the sort of funds which the amazingly successful but ultimately and unfairly (my opinion) sacked predecessor Steve Cotterill could only have dreamed about. Said he would need 5 transfer windows (clever move) and despite 2 record breaking losing streaks was given 8, with the funds still rolling into his transfer pot. 

Managerial career at Bristol City characterized by scattergun signings of players (not blamable on Ashton because right at the start Johnson categorically said he he had right of veto), embarrassing Davis Brentisms, wankerish antics such as measuring the grass (at Sunderland, again I was there), bullying of certain players, and constant and cowardly blame shifting.

All the while wearing a constant smug self assured smirk.

 

To say I can't take to him would be an under statement.

Well, when you put it like that.. 

To be fair I hadn't realised quite how high a percentage of his games was played under his Dad. That said, my point that his career wasn't "entirely" down to his father was more about the hard work a player has to put in commitment wise to get to that level of football and I still stand by the fact that if you played in a team where the manager's son was being picked purely on who he was it would destroy a dressing room, not galvonise it to one that makes the play off final as underdogs.

[Robbored]

36 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Well, when you put it like that.. 

To be fair I hadn't realised quite how high a percentage of his games was played under his Dad. That said, my point that his career wasn't "entirely" down to his father was more about the hard work a player has to put in commitment wise to get to that level of football and I still stand by the fact that if you played in a team where the manager's son was being picked purely on who he was it would destroy a dressing room, not galvonise it to one that makes the play off final as underdogs.

And it did - culminating in the infamous brawl at Argyle after which the players refused to play under GJ. He was sacked almost straight away.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

22 hours ago, Robbored said:

Well PF if you find my posts tedious and repetitive you know what to do.

Yeah...do what everyone else does, and rip the piss out of them.

[MarcusX]

59 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And it did - culminating in the infamous brawl at Argyle after which the players refused to play under GJ. He was sacked almost straight away.

Is this because LJ was being selected or because the team had peaked and were on a downward spiral and awful run of form? LJ didn't even play that game (infact he'd just come back from loan not long before).

The fallout on the day was supposedly with Sproule and Campbell-Ryce

Still doesn't account for the playoff season when he played almost every game, and lets face it the season wasn't plain sailing. There was a lot of times it could have gone wrong if there was resentment in the dressing room e.g. the 6-0 at Ipswich

 

 

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Is this because LJ was being selected or because the team had peaked and were on a downward spiral and awful run of form? LJ didn't even play that game (infact he'd just come back from loan not long before).

The fallout on the day was supposedly with Sproule and Campbell-Ryce

Still doesn't account for the playoff season when he played almost every game, and lets face it the season wasn't plain sailing. There was a lot of times it could have gone wrong if there was resentment in the dressing room e.g. the 6-0 at Ipswich

I don’t why some posters try to defend LJ as a player he was bang average and as NickJ highlighted he played the majority of his games under his dad. Very few, if any other managers would have made him first choice.

His repeated selection over better more skilful players definitely caused resentment within the squad which over time built up and eventually exploded at Argyle. 

That brawl was caused by GJ saying something completely heinous to Ivan Sproule who quite rightly flipped his lid. The two had be separated and GJ man handled out of the changing room by senior players some of whom went to SL saying that they would no longer play under GJ

Anyway......that’s history now and thankfully the miasma left by both Johnson’s has finally cleared.
 

[phantom]

33 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I don’t why some posters try to defend LJ as a player he was bang average

yet people talk about Skuse being a great player when in truth neither were stand out performers and pretty much 6/10 every week

[Robbored]

26 minutes ago, phantom said:

yet people talk about Skuse being a great player when in truth neither were stand out performers and pretty much 6/10 every week

Skuse was a really good player, not a great one. 

Had he been in the latter then he’d have been snapped up by PL outfit.

[The Coach]

Well....this topic really has escalated. 

 

[phantom]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Skuse was a really good player, not a great one. 

Had he been in the latter then he’d have been snapped up by PL outfit.

But MANY would disagree with you, but he never went up a level

Very easy to like "one of our own" but dislike everything about someone that isn't