italian dave Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, lenred said: Not as straightforward as that though imho, given the far larger investment LJ enjoyed. All been done to death though. Oh, I agree - on both counts! Although, as I've said above, not sure that having that always helped him. And as I've said before that came at a price - which in the case of Webster and Brownhill was quite significant I think. I'm not blinkered: I've heard SL give his reasons for both sticking with and getting rid when he did and they seem sound (although I sometimes wonder what his view is now and whether he regrets it). I didn't much enjoy the football at Ashton Gate the last year or so of his reign - although as someone who goes away a lot I thoroughly enjoyed a lot more away games, so maybe that laters my view. I don't argue with @Red Exile having the view that he or she does, and I'm not - my gripe is withe the suggestion that supporting the manager of your football team is "cult" like, I find it odd the apparent glee that some people greet every Sunderland defeat, and having followed the club through a great many managerial appointments, including Osman, Benny, Pulis, Coppell, Tinnion, McInnes, O'Driscoll I struggle with the notion that LJ was one of the poorest appointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I wonder if he’ll ever reconnect with DH as an assistant in his next role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKERITE Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Fordy62 said: I really think they’d be better off sacking him, but it’d perhaps be a little ridiculous if they did. But not as ridiculous as appointing him in the first place. Unfortunately the three attractive, prospective managers who were available when our owners inexplicably gave Johnson the job are all employed elsewhere now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: He may have to take on a much smaller club for a while. Well as he's won almost nothing at any club he has ever managed - in over 400 matches - he's lucky to be in work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Fordy62 said: I really think they’d be better off sacking him, but it’d perhaps be a little ridiculous if they did. On their forum they were talking about serious budget cuts, they may not be able to afford it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, italian dave said: Oh, I agree - on both counts! Although, as I've said above, not sure that having that always helped him. And as I've said before that came at a price - which in the case of Webster and Brownhill was quite significant I think. I'm not blinkered: I've heard SL give his reasons for both sticking with and getting rid when he did and they seem sound (although I sometimes wonder what his view is now and whether he regrets it). I didn't much enjoy the football at Ashton Gate the last year or so of his reign - although as someone who goes away a lot I thoroughly enjoyed a lot more away games, so maybe that laters my view. I don't argue with @Red Exile having the view that he or she does, and I'm not - my gripe is withe the suggestion that supporting the manager of your football team is "cult" like, I find it odd the apparent glee that some people greet every Sunderland defeat, and having followed the club through a great many managerial appointments, including Osman, Benny, Pulis, Coppell, Tinnion, McInnes, O'Driscoll I struggle with the notion that LJ was one of the poorest appointments. To be fair, that's a reasonable charge sheet. Tinnion was worse...and Millen not much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, italian dave said: You see, I'd argue that's what toxic is bandying around expressions like "unfalteringly loyal devotees of the cult of Johnson", You are a confident arguer, I think? A lawyer, even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, ROKERITE said: But not as ridiculous as appointing him in the first place. Unfortunately the three attractive, prospective managers who were available when our owners inexplicably gave Johnson the job are all employed elsewhere now. Who were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKERITE Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, lenred said: Who were they? Daniel Stendel, Paul Cook and, my personal preference, Danny Cowley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, ROKERITE said: Daniel Stendel, Paul Cook and, my personal preference, Danny Cowley. Don’t think Cowley would be any better tbh. Cook on the other hand….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ROKERITE said: Daniel Stendel, Paul Cook and, my personal preference, Danny Cowley. How did Cook and Cowley do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKERITE Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, lenred said: Don’t think Cowley would be any better tbh. Cook on the other hand….. Well we'll see next season. Cook and Cowley will both be managing our rivals in League One next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: You are a confident arguer, I think? A lawyer, even? Not guilty, your honour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKERITE Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said: How did Cook and Cowley do? They had sixteen and twelve matches respectively without benefit of a transfer window. We'll see how they do next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 21 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: No other manager, aside from perhaps Pulis, would get a thread like this - and with Johnson he genuinely tried his best. It’s weird and feels personal. I have no problem with people who try their best. I don’t support anyone who would insult someone who tries his best but this thread isn’t going to insult LJ because he isn’t going to read it. The problem with LJ, and his appointment by SL, was he was someone who was promoted far above his natural ability. I can understand why LJ accepted the City job which came out out the blue (who wouldn’t?), but that doesn’t explain his total delusion of his ability. He achieved nothing before he came here, but all we got was his David Brent pontifications post match. There is an expression “bullsh*t baffles brains” and I think this is what happened with LJ and SL. Steve had the brains but unfortunately he was baffled by LJ’s bullsh*t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, ROKERITE said: But not as ridiculous as appointing him in the first place. Unfortunately the three attractive, prospective managers who were available when our owners inexplicably gave Johnson the job are all employed elsewhere now. Buddy, we feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I guess my question is - in a time where we went from a relegation battle (I use the word battle because there were no guarantees we were staying up or going down) to a team comfortable in mid/top half of the table with aspirations of playoffs, why was a combination of head-coach and CEO looked on with such a lack of fondness? Those of us critical of LJ and / or MA may have different reasons. Many will have looked beyond “year on year progression” at things like the style / excitement of the football, the finances, the personalities of both etc. It doesn’t really matter each person’s reason, it is what it is. And when the subject comes up on OTIB, it re-opens the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I said before he got sacked that Lee Johnson hasn't really established himself as a Championship manager and people disagreed with me, and where he finds himself now and maybe he gets sacked again is starting to back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I guess my question is - in a time where we went from a relegation battle (I use the word battle because there were no guarantees we were staying up or going down) to a team comfortable in mid/top half of the table with aspirations of playoffs, why was a combination of head-coach and CEO looked on with such a lack of fondness? Those of us critical of LJ and / or MA may have different reasons. Many will have looked beyond “year on year progression” at things like the style / excitement of the football, the finances, the personalities of both etc. It doesn’t really matter each person’s reason, it is what it is. And when the subject comes up on OTIB, it re-opens the debate. It's an interesting point. I think perhaps he was here a bit too long so it went stale. Maybe if he'd left the after the cup run season he'd be looked on with more fondness. By the time he left the football was boring, we had a weak side and looked to be regressing. I think also there's some other factors such as the summer of 15/16 where the transfers unravelled, it went sour with Cotterill and then Johnson/Ashton arrive. That's understandably going to get people's backs up after the success of the double winning season. Perhaps another consideration was that we achieved mid-table Championship status (where I think most fans expect us to be at a minimum post promotion) but with a bloated and expensive squad. Something that had been an issue for years prior to relegation. Under Cotterill we achieved promotion with a pretty streamlined, nicely gelled squad and people enjoyed that. I appreciate we were a big fish in league 1 so could attract better talent, but going from that squad to one containing the likes of Engvall/Giefer/Diony and all the other failed transfers is a very different way of operating that seems wasteful. I think people felt we were only 3/4 additions away from having a competitive top level Championship squad after promotion. That might've been blind optimism after the success of 14/15 but who knows.. we had momentum and lots of togetherness within the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Sturny said: I wonder if he’ll ever reconnect with DH as an assistant in his next role? I think Holden is pretty settled in the North West so unless it goes wrong at Stoke and/or Johnson gets another role in the Manchester area I can't see it. Holden seems a very family orientated man and the Stoke role is a fairly ideal location. I get the impression it's McAllister and Johnson who are genuine pals, but then again they've known each other for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: It's an interesting point. I think perhaps he was here a bit too long so it went stale. Maybe Or, he was here a bit too soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, Moments of Pleasure said: Or, he was here a bit too soon Yeah perhaps he'd say the same. I don't blame him for taking the opportunity though, same as Holden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Robbored said: I imagine that LJ did his badges on the back of his playing career - which as I’ve already said was down entirely to his father. Virtually everyone knows that LJ got into the team thru nepotism and in the place of better players. I asked GJ about it and he replied that “he’s a good player”........that to me confirmed that he was blinded by family loyalty. Not one City fan I know ever rated LJ as a good player. LJ was given the Oldham and Barnsley jobs on merit. It takes more than just coaching badges to get a job in management. Also there was better players than LJ, but you need workmanlike players to allow others like Noble to shine. You cannot say LJ was carried every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, Selred said: LJ was given the Oldham and Barnsley jobs on merit. It takes more than just coaching badges to get a job in management. Also there was better players than LJ, but you need workmanlike players to allow others like Noble to shine. You cannot say LJ was carried every game. Warnock summed up LJ perfectly when he commented that he ‘talks a good game’ I couldn’t agree more and that almost certainly played a significant part in him getting those jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 I wonder what the Mackems are gonna make of their away day to Nailsworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted May 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Maybe it’s the red wine talking and I know we’ve done this argument to death a million times, but I love you lot and I’ll never tire of this LJ debate. OTIB is genuinely the best fiver’s entertainment you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said: I wonder what the Mackems are gonna make of their away day to Nailsworth More to the point, what will the sedate folk of Nailsworth make of the Mackems, Owls and Pompey fans rocking up at The New Lawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezer Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: Maybe it’s the red wine talking and I know we’ve done this argument to death a million times, but I love you lot and I’ll never tire of this LJ debate. OTIB is genuinely the best fiver’s entertainment you can get. I'm on the Vin Rouge aussi Fordy. And you don't even need to fork out a fiver to participate but personally think its the least one can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Robbored said: Warnock summed up LJ perfectly when he commented that he ‘talks a good game’ I couldn’t agree more and that almost certainly played a significant part in him getting those jobs. So it's due to LJs talking of a good game, not Gary then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Robbored said: Warnock summed up LJ perfectly when he commented that he ‘talks a good game’ I couldn’t agree more and that almost certainly played a significant part in him getting those jobs. Or: He's a gobshite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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