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The OTIB derby - Sunderland vs Lincoln match day thread


Fordy62
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31 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

I'd be very surprised if LJ went there. Even though Ashton is a massive bell end he'll know what a dick LJ is having worked with him,  people say they were friendly but Ashton probably used him so he could blame him for all his crap signings.

Agreed although I think that works both ways. LJ has previously alluded to stuff going on behind the scenes here and I'd be amazed if at least some of it wasn't down to Ashton.

It's far from a given that he'd want to work with Ashton again and assuming Sunderland don't get rid this summer I'd be quite interested to see what his recruitment is like without Ashton doing the deals.

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1 minute ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Not as successful as either he or we would have liked. That’s the same for the majority of managers.

The question is: why the nasty vitriol against him in particular?

What vitriol? He's a bluffer and I'm calling him out on it. Talks the talk but cannot walk the walk.  Four clubs now, zero tangible achievements.

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Just now, cityloyal473 said:

What vitriol? He's a bluffer and I'm calling him out on it. Talks the talk but cannot walk the walk.  Four clubs now, zero tangible achievements.

No other manager, aside from perhaps Pulis, would get a thread like this - and with Johnson he genuinely tried his best. It’s weird and feels personal.

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21 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Establishing us as a second tier club when we had mostly been a third tier club for a long time. Plus a league cup run to the semifinal where we almost matched one of the best teams in the world.

Had we?

In the 10 years before Lee joined we were in the Championship for 6 of them... finishing higher than when he was here in general too. We were only back in L1 for 2 in between remember.

7 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Not as successful as either he or we would have liked. That’s the same for the majority of managers.

The question is: why the nasty vitriol against him in particular?

He was an extremely divisive player for us, more than any other I can remember for a long time. He replaced an extremely popular manager, many people thought too soon which got him off on a bad foot. He was here for a long time, so people formed strong opinions and stuck by them. His interview style rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

I'm not saying any of that justifies it of course, I think it's definitely OTT, but it's not too hard to understand why.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No other manager, aside from perhaps Pulis, would get a thread like this - and with Johnson he genuinely tried his best. It’s weird and feels personal.

There's a remarkable crossover in the amount of posters who get annoyed by talk of former players/managers but take delight in blasting LJ at any chance

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14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

Agreed. It’s all very weird and personal. I’d have liked to see him get Sunderland promoted, just the same as I’d wish any former manager well, and personally I certainly wouldn’t make a thread hoping one of them fails.

I appreciate why people felt he was the wrong appointment or should’ve been sacked earlier.. but all of this personal stuff feels disproportionate. The guy tried his best and his time was up, as often happens.

Yep. I can absolutely understand that people don't rate him, didn't want him here or don't like the way he comes across, but for quite a few on here it goes beyond that into something more personal, and in one or two cases it's bordering on obsessive hatred.

Edited by Northern Red
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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No other manager, aside from perhaps Pulis, would get a thread like this - and with Johnson he genuinely tried his best. It’s weird and feels personal.

I've said on many threads that as a person I genuinely like him.  He's personable and has the best of intentions.

But on a work level the guy is out of his depth and is actually dangerous to his employers. 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No other manager, aside from perhaps Pulis, would get a thread like this - and with Johnson he genuinely tried his best. It’s weird and feels personal.

I agree, but he played for or managed us for 10 of the last 15 years. It's not really surprising people have formed strong opinions on him in that time!

I don't like the insults at all but I'll probably follow what he's up to to some degree from now on - he's been a big part of City like him or not in recent memory.

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1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

Yep. I can absolutely understand that people don't rate him, didn't want him here or don't like the way he comes across, but for quite a few on here it goes beyond that into something more than that, and in one or two cases it's bordering on obsessive hatred.

That’s my issue with it. I understand the reasons, even if I don’t agree. Just feels a bit much. 

I know he’s a bit annoying and there’s plenty of things he did that I disagreed with.. but I genuinely am baffled by the obsessive willing that he fails by some. The guy tried his best, that’s all you can ask for. 

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24 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

No one ever mentions the trebling of the wage bill do they? I wonder why. 

Such a fairytale. 

To be fair if I were making an argument against LJ I wouldn't use the trebling of the wage bill against him as its trebling a L1 wage bill to one that was still bottom half of the division rather than taking an already established championship wage bill and trebling it

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Just now, IAmNick said:

I agree, but he played for or managed us for 10 of the last 15 years. It's not really surprising people have formed strong opinions on him in that time!

I don't like the insults at all but I'll probably follow what he's up to to some degree from now on - he's been a big part of City like him or not in recent memory.

Agreed. I’ll look out for how he gets on.. same as I do for GJ or Cotterill.. or Bryan, Reid etc. But I wouldn’t go out of my way to hope he fails, just find that strange.

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24 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

It's vindication for most that he's a bluffing ****.  And frustration that he was given so much time and resources here. 

Yes let’s condemn a young English manager to the bin. Pathetic to be honest

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agreed. I’ll look out for how he gets on.. same as I do for GJ or Cotterill.. or Bryan, Reid etc. But I wouldn’t go out of my way to hope he fails, just find that strange.

Yeah same, although I wasn't upset he didn't get to the final today I'll admit, even though I know it's a bit childish!

If I even met him I'll shake his hand and buy him a pint - it's the personal stuff I'm not such a fan of. I can have a slightly tongue in cheek dislike of him in a footballing context without disliking the bloke.

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Maybe because he was the focal point of a plan that promised much but failed to deliver. He’d said he wanted to return as manager one day, was undoubtedly “well-connected” here so he was given the job based on that rather than a solid record of achievement. Then we witnessed all manner of strange selections, poor game management and the dreadful nonsense he spouted. No it shouldn’t be hateful but he set himself up for this as did those running the club. Reaching the play-offs once or twice when well placed would have helped a bit.

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1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

Yeah same, although I wasn't upset he didn't get to the final today I'll admit, even though I know it's a bit childish!

If I even met him I'll shake his hand and buy him a pint - it's the personal stuff I'm not such a fan of. I can have a slightly tongue in cheek dislike of him in a footballing context without disliking the bloke.

That’s right, I agree. Football is entertainment and we’re allowed to disproportionately dislike clubs/players/managers. Warnock gets plenty of stick but I’m sure most of those that give it out would gladly shake his hand in a pub and buy him a drink.

With Johnson I feel for some it goes beyond that though. This thread being a good example.

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4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

To be fair if I were making an argument against LJ I wouldn't use the trebling of the wage bill against him as its trebling a L1 wage bill to one that was still bottom half of the division rather than taking an already established championship wage bill and trebling it

The trebling figure, if we are referring to my spreadsheet, was taken from end of 15/16 season, so a full Championship season, where the likes of Tomlin, Baker, Kodjia etc were included….that was the start point for the treble of wages not 14/15.  So I think it is a valid stick to beat him with.  But it should LJ and MA’s arsed bent over getting a whack.

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48 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

I don’t really get the nastiness towards LJ. He did his best for us, loved the club, provided some success but ultimately didn’t quite make it so moved on. Pretty much like most of our previous managers but without the love.

I know he talked a lot of nonsense in interviews but why can’t we just wish him all the best and forget about it.

No nastiness from me and I wish him well. I don't think he's the high flyer some made him out to be though and some of his post match interviews towards the end of his time with us were nothing short of cringeworthy.

I'm glad we no longer have to listen to it and wouldn't want him back but wish him well.

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Just now, Ska Junkie said:

No nastiness from me and I wish him well. I don't think he's the high flyer some made him out to be though and some of his post match interviews towards the end of his time with us were nothing short of cringeworthy.

I'm glad we no longer have to listen to it and wouldn't want him back but wish him well.

Succinctly put and better than I could express. 

 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

The trebling figure, if we are referring to my spreadsheet, was taken from end of 15/16 season, so a full Championship season, where the likes of Tomlin, Baker, Kodjia etc were included….that was the start point for the treble of wages not 14/15.  So I think it is a valid stick to beat him with.  But it should LJ and MA’s arsed bent over getting a whack.

Think it gets into grey area if you're using loan players, how do you value what we were paying Tomlin/Baker on loan vs what they were on here as it was probably less once they sign here

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1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Think it gets into grey area if you're using loan players, how do you value what we were paying Tomlin/Baker on loan vs what they were on here as it was probably less once they sign here

Makes no difference….the wage bill in the accounts is THE wage bill.  Makes no difference if it’s loan or not.  It went up far too much for the quality it left us with.

In terms of budgets, Barnsley are doing what we haven’t managed on less than 40% of our budget.

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16 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

What vitriol? He's a bluffer and I'm calling him out on it. Talks the talk but cannot walk the walk.  Four clubs now, zero tangible achievements.

Agreed. He is a complete charlatan no question.

It is all water under the bridge now and I bear him NO personal malice but he should never ever have been our HC.

It was a bizarre appointment then and it remains one now - only second to giving Dean Holden the job last summer.

It is time to draw a line under it now and move on with a proper manager who it would appear, with the appointment of Dave Rennie and also looking after recruitment has been given the keys to the castle by SL.

I suspect SL has been more than surprised by how NP operates in comparison to how things were previously.

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6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Yes let’s condemn a young English manager to the bin. Pathetic to be honest

Who is condemning him to the bin? Me? Who gives a stuff for my opinion? I don't think my views on here wlll harm his chances of the England job. 

Nice guy, wrong profession.  He should stick to buying and selling houses and stop pretending he's some proven track record in turning clubs around and improving their fortunes. 

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9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No other manager, aside from perhaps Pulis, would get a thread like this - and with Johnson he genuinely tried his best. It’s weird and feels personal.

I don't even mind Pulis. Played crap football, well maybe we should not have appointed him then and got Moyes instead.

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I think people dislike the nepotism that has blighted his career. Out of interest, I wonder what percentage of his professional starts were made under Gary?

The same is true for the majority of his managerial career - being offered opportunities not befitting his skill level. 

Then throw in the utter bullshit he talks, the fact he replaced someone much more deserving of the backing LJ got and then the comparative level of resources he was given by uncle Steve just all creates a perfect storm of bitterness.

And he just won’t learn. Same old bullshit “we’re a great big shark and we go round biting people.” Humility is a great thing. LJ has absolutely none. He has very few redeeming traits to counteract the ones that make him a bit of a ****.

So that’s why I wanted him to lose today. 

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33 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

It's far from a given that he'd want to work with Ashton again and assuming Sunderland don't get rid this summer I'd be quite interested to see what his recruitment is like without Ashton doing the deals.

It was decent at Barnsley I think? Not that he had many windows there. It really was the recruitment that messed us around here (whoever was chiefly responsible) it would seem.

The better you recruit in the summer, the less you have to "manage" in the winter and into spring.

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From a purely City point of view, I would hope, and imagine, that the club have learned from what happened with LJ and MA and will make sure nobody has too much power as is my suspicion while MA was here. The fact they were both very self appreciating can't have helped either.

We are Bristol City FC, not Lee Johnson or Mark Ashton FC.

Let's hope lessons have been learned eh.

Edited by Ska Junkie
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