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The Bard

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The decision to allow Spurs' 3rd goal has done it for me.  How on earth can they arrive at that decision?  Kane clearly handballed it and took possession of the ball and set up a goal. Clearly the goal should be disallowed.

VAR is completely secretive, no oversight, not even after the event.  Sat in an office in London. How could you make it more suspicious?

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22 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The decision to allow Spurs' 3rd goal has done it for me.  How on earth can they arrive at that decision?  Kane clearly handballed it and took possession of the ball and set up a goal. Clearly the goal should be disallowed.

VAR is completely secretive, no oversight, not even after the event.  Sat in an office in London. How could you make it more suspicious?

Premier league want the "BIG" boys in the champions league

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26 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The decision to allow Spurs' 3rd goal has done it for me.  How on earth can they arrive at that decision?  Kane clearly handballed it and took possession of the ball and set up a goal. Clearly the goal should be disallowed.

VAR is completely secretive, no oversight, not even after the event.  Sat in an office in London. How could you make it more suspicious?

IT'S. THE. F*CKING. REFS. THAT. ARE. THE. ISSUE.

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2 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Yes,  but not 100% of the issue.   You can't seriously suggest that the system is perfect it's just the individuals cocking it up can you?

 

 

The individuals are in charge of the system, they operate it, they see the same problems time-after-time and come up with wildly different results, there's no consistency, there's no refinement, there's no transparency, there's no comeback.

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57 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The decision to allow Spurs' 3rd goal has done it for me.  How on earth can they arrive at that decision?  Kane clearly handballed it and took possession of the ball and set up a goal. Clearly the goal should be disallowed.

VAR is completely secretive, no oversight, not even after the event.  Sat in an office in London. How could you make it more suspicious?

They changed it because of all the complaints from fans etc about the smallest accidental hand balls disallowing goals. Fans can't have it both ways, it was changed to the way fans wanted it. Handball now only applies to the goalscorer directly in the process of scoring the goal ala hand of god

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1 minute ago, sephjnr said:

The individuals are in charge of the system, they operate it, they see the same problems time-after-time and come up with wildly different results, there's no consistency, there's no refinement, there's no transparency, there's no comeback.

This is the refinement of the system, fans etc didn't like goals being called off because of an accidental hand ball in the build up so they changed the rules so it counted the way fans etc wanted.

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3 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

This is the refinement of the system, fans etc didn't like goals being called off because of an accidental hand ball in the build up so they changed the rules so it counted the way fans etc wanted.

Let's ask LCFC fans if they wanted Bale's first to count today.

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2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

They changed it because of all the complaints from fans etc about the smallest accidental hand balls disallowing goals. Fans can't have it both ways, it was changed to the way fans wanted it. Handball now only applies to the goalscorer directly in the process of scoring the goal ala hand of god

Sorry it wasn't changed to 'the way the fans wanted it' at all.  Were you consulted?  I wasn't.  It was changed by people we don't know who used the cover of 'it's the way the fans want it' to justify a shit bit of governance. 

We want the game referreed properly.  Using common sense to apply the rules of the game.  Your last sentence is the problem.  Handball applies all over the pitch.

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I’d get rid of VAR, it’s adding nothing to the game as the same mistakes are happening. I’ve no idea of the rules of the game anymore, when’s a handball and handball and when does a handball that leads to a goal not actually a handball? 

Get rid 

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The goal wasn't disallowed because of the time between the incident and the goal, it didn't lead directly to a goal. 
I don't believe VAR have give a timescale on how long between handball and goal would lead to it being disallowed.
Handball is now from the (short) shirt down.
I don't believe VAR have explained exactly where that point on the arm is. Cap sleeve more chance of handball, 3/4 sleeve less?

There are so many vagaries concerning VAR, you can be offside by millimetres , yet the tech isn't in place to be that exact. The invisible men with screens are so inconsistent, but Ref's rely on the word from Stockley Park to know if they have it right or wrong. 
The single worst thing that VAR has done, or not done IMO, was not giving the goal against Villa last year. Goal line tech missed it ,yet everyone could clearly see it was over the line and they did nothing. VAR is not fit for purpose ..... YET !
 

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11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I don't believe VAR have give a timescale on how long between handball and goal would lead to it being disallowed.

Its the goalscorer, as Kane was assister not scorer it wouldn't matter

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5 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Its the goalscorer, as Kane was assister not scorer it wouldn't matter

According to the "experts" last night, it was because there was so much time between the incident and the goal, it didn't lead directly to the goal. If it would have gone from hand to pass to goal , it would have been disallowed. 

Do you think a blatant hand ball that lead to a goal ( but missed by the Ref) would be allowed by VAR, just because the scorer isn't the one that handled it?

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I'm not making a conspiracy up at all, but surely it can easily be manipulated by those at Stockley Park? Yes we'll give that a goal and no we won't give that one a goal (Because we don't want them to) ? Surely that could genuinely be the case

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5 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I'm not making a conspiracy up at all, but surely it can easily be manipulated by those at Stockley Park? Yes we'll give that a goal and no we won't give that one a goal (Because we don't want them to) ? Surely that could genuinely be the case

Of course. We (the British) think our country is somehow free of corruption and it only exists in other countries.  

 

If we read a story about Bulgarian football having VAR based in Sofia and how a decision benefitted CSKA Sofia to the detriment of a provincial side to decide who was in Europe we'd all be on our high horse. 

It's happened here. Wakey wakey

 

 

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3 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Of course. We (the British) think our country is somehow free of corruption and it only exists in other countries.  

 

If we read a story about Bulgarian football having VAR based in Sofia and how a decision benefitted CSKA Sofia to the detriment of a provincial side to decide who was in Europe we'd all be on our high horse. 

It's happened here. Wakey wakey

 

 

 

I always believed a lot more happens behind the scenes of the big clubs in the PL, that we will never know. I'm talking corruption and involvement of OCGs.

 

Bbc No GIF by Line of Duty

 

 

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16 hours ago, The Bard said:

The decision to allow Spurs' 3rd goal has done it for me.  How on earth can they arrive at that decision?  Kane clearly handballed it and took possession of the ball and set up a goal. Clearly the goal should be disallowed.

VAR is completely secretive, no oversight, not even after the event.  Sat in an office in London. How could you make it more suspicious?

How could that be the last straw on VAR. It has been awful the whole way through and should have been scrapped long ago.

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15 hours ago, sephjnr said:

The individuals are in charge of the system, they operate it, they see the same problems time-after-time and come up with wildly different results, there's no consistency, there's no refinement, there's no transparency, there's no comeback.

There are massive comebacks for referees.

The biggest problem is that referees know the laws of the game, unlike a vast amount of people who watch the game!!

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53 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

According to the "experts" last night, it was because there was so much time between the incident and the goal, it didn't lead directly to the goal. If it would have gone from hand to pass to goal , it would have been disallowed. 

Do you think a blatant hand ball that lead to a goal ( but missed by the Ref) would be allowed by VAR, just because the scorer isn't the one that handled it?

Referees ref by the laws of the game. Nothing else matters, if the laws state the goal should stand that’s it.

Whether the law is what people like us a completely different issue.

The problem lies with the law makers, not the law enforcement.

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6 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees ref by the laws of the game. Nothing else matters, if the laws state the goal should stand that’s it.

Whether the law is what people like us a completely different issue.

The problem lies with the law makers, not the law enforcement.

Laws in Rugby Union.  Rules in football as my dad always tells me.  Difference is subtle but real.  Enforce the law, apply the rules.  Football referees are judges, Rugby referees Police.

This situation is a matter or applying the handball rule in light of guidance about the use of VAR.  It has come up with an absolutely perverse decision in one of the key games of the season resulting in the London based establishment club being in the Champions League at the expense of the provincial club.  

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3 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Laws in Rugby Union.  Rules in football as my dad always tells me.  Difference is subtle but real.  Enforce the law, apply the rules.  Football referees are judges, Rugby referees Police.

This situation is a matter or applying the handball rule in light of guidance about the use of VAR.  It has come up with an absolutely perverse decision in one of the key games of the season resulting in the London based establishment club being in the Champions League at the expense of the provincial club.  

Laws in football. Ask any football referee.
if the laws of the game state that it was a goal, that’s what the two referees follow. 

 

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

There are massive comebacks for referees.

The biggest problem is that referees know the laws of the game, unlike a vast amount of people who watch the game!!

So why do we never hear of disciplinary judgements for these people with the same transparency as we do for players?

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49 minutes ago, The Bard said:

This situation is a matter or applying the handball rule in light of guidance about the use of VAR.  It has come up with an absolutely perverse decision in one of the key games of the season resulting in the London based establishment club being in the Champions League at the expense of the provincial club.  

And the rule here says the goal should be awarded, what’s VAR supposed to do? It applied the rule as it said it should, if we’d had the old rule VAR would have ruled it out 

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees ref by the laws of the game. Nothing else matters, if the laws state the goal should stand that’s it.

Whether the law is what people like us a completely different issue.

The problem lies with the law makers, not the law enforcement.

I've no problems with Refs, apart from the usual, it's those at Stockley Park that seem to randomly enforce or ignore rules at will. You can see similar incidents overseen by the same guy with the screen and the outcomes are different. I don't think you should get sending offs overturned as the whole point of VAR is you don't get the big calls wrong. 
Totally agree about the laws/rules being wrong, but the ones we have are still nit enforced consistently even when you can see the incident several times.

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