Robert Atkinson - Now Signed (Merged)

[chipdawg]

29 minutes ago, tin said:

Admittedly, I don't know a lot about Atkinson and haven't seen him play but £2m for someone who's only played 39 games in League One - and in professional football - seems excessive to me, especially in the current market.

By comparison, Taylor Moore's got 145 professional games under his belt, including 48 in the Championship. Zak Vyner's got 90 Championship appearances to his name. I'm not saying these two are better than Atkinson, but it makes me wonder what they must be worth if Oxford want £2m. 

Conversely, I don't think £2million is that outrageous for a 6'4" ball-playing centre half who made the L1 team of the season in his first year in pro football. I do feel like offering Oxford a replacement player might be a decent shout though. Moore was decent at that level for Blackpool. Or Cundy on loan perhaps?

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Super said:

I was at college with a guy called Robert Atkinson.

Great story there Super.

 

[tin]

24 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

Conversely, I don't think £2million is that outrageous for a 6'4" ball-playing centre half who made the L1 team of the season in his first year in pro football. I do feel like offering Oxford a replacement player might be a decent shout though. Moore was decent at that level for Blackpool. Or Cundy on loan perhaps?

It depends how that deal is structured, IMO.

If it's something like £500k up front with another £250k coming after he plays 50 Championship games for us, another £1m for promotion to the PL, a sell-on percentage on future profit, for example, then that's fine by me. £2m straight up is a no-deal. I'd rather see Cundy get a go. 

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Christ, I knew it was bad, but didn't realise it was quite that bad.

Any idea how our financial position compares to other Championship clubs for context? Is this relatively standard for Championship clubs right now? or are we in a more worrying position than most?

I've generally been under the impression that we're still in a better financial position than most other (non parachute payment) Championship clubs, but maybe that's inaccurate....

I don’t know.  If you take the PP clubs out I suspect our cost base is one of the highest.

Here’s an interesting pic from Kieran Maguire.

City - 10th highest wage bill.

Of the non-pp clubs, take out Leeds because their revenues are fantastic.

Derby - basket case

Forest - were a basket case, recovering though

Reading - gambled on promotion this year, failed, about to become a basket case or will need a fire sale

Wednesday - basket case

Birmingham -  fighting back from being basket case.

Boro - well run, but like us have allowed costs to rise too high and are now letting big transfer fee players go OOC.

The rest - running in much smaller budgets / cost base to us, so probably less hamstrung than us….albeit not with same owner backing as us.

In summary we ought to have been in a great financial position to capitalise this summer, but we’ve pissed too much money up the wall, and allowed the Barnsley’s and Coventry’s of the world to be on an equal footing.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, chipdawg said:

Conversely, I don't think £2million is that outrageous for a 6'4" ball-playing centre half who made the L1 team of the season in his first year in pro football. I do feel like offering Oxford a replacement player might be a decent shout though. Moore was decent at that level for Blackpool. Or Cundy on loan perhaps?

Prior to Covid I would have agreed with you.

Not sure of any defenders moving up from League One since the pandemic for anything like this amount?

Happy to be shown to be wrong, my hunch is £1m tops is far more likely in current circumstances.

[cidered abroad]

Just one thing that puzzles me about the (alleged) attempt to sign Atkinson.

We need a defence pack leader, do we not? Does a youngster of less than fifty League One appearances fit this major requirement?

[NcnsBcfc]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Prior to Covid I would have agreed with you.

Not sure of any defenders moving up from League One since the pandemic for anything like this amount?

Happy to be shown to be wrong, my hunch is £1m tops is far more likely in current circumstances.

I suppose it will come down to whether Oxford have to sell or not. If they don't, then he will probably stay with them for another season.

He's under contract for a couple more years with them. This is probably the worse time to try to sell an asset for a decent price.

In a year from now, the market may have improved again; and they can ask for the £2-3m.

If Oxford are having to sell though, i agree with Graham; £1m tops.

He's had one season in L1. Yes, he had a good one; but there is nothing to say he is ready to make the jump up to the Championship, which is of course a far higher standard.

 

[Son of Fred]

59 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Just one thing that puzzles me about the (alleged) attempt to sign Atkinson.

We need a defence pack leader, do we not? Does a youngster of less than fifty League One appearances fit this major requirement?

Thank you.. ..this.

We're in requirement of people that know where they are in this division(or higher),,can take responsibility & do so as a Matter of course.

Not saying this gentleman isn't a decent player with potential,,,just not what fits for us in the now.

We have a ship that needs steadying.

 

 

[Snufflelufagus]

7 hours ago, tin said:

It depends how that deal is structured, IMO.

If it's something like £500k up front with another £250k coming after he plays 50 Championship games for us, another £1m for promotion to the PL, a sell-on percentage on future profit, for example, then that's fine by me. £2m straight up is a no-deal. I'd rather see Cundy get a go. 

Who would sell a player to us with half the fee based on if we get promoted to the premier league? 

[tin]

53 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

Who would sell a player to us with half the fee based on if we get promoted to the premier league? 

It was an example, nothing more. 

[Supersonic Robin]

5 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Just one thing that puzzles me about the (alleged) attempt to sign Atkinson.

We need a defence pack leader, do we not? Does a youngster of less than fifty League One appearances fit this major requirement?

 

5 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Thank you.. ..this.

We're in requirement of people that know where they are in this division(or higher),,can take responsibility & do so as a Matter of course.

Not saying this gentleman isn't a decent player with potential,,,just not what fits for us in the now.

We have a ship that needs steadying.

 

 

I'm a bit torn on this one. I do appreciate that we appeared to lack organisational-style leadership at the back (although I think Kalas probably isn't quite as poor in this department as some make him out to be, even if it isn't his greatest strength).

However, above all else I feel we need players who:

1. Are showing good ability right now (i.e. not a player we sign because he was good x years ago, because he got promoted in 2016 etc)

2. Are a good age (they will hold or improve their value over the next few years - ideally they have room for development)

3. Will fit into our system / style of play / ethos

Not necessarily disagreeing with the point about leadership/experience - just feel as though it may rank lower in my requirements than other things. All in all I'd see Atkinson as a good fit for us for the reasons above (plus benefits like aerial ability, left footed etc)

I'd hope that through better coaching, a less changeable back 4, more protection from midfield, and a promising new CB of any age (e.g. Atkinson), we could become notably better defensively next season. 

Of course we do need some experience, but that will largely take care of itself in the free agents we will likely bring in, a couple of which will almost certainly be in their mid 20's or older. 

[Major Isewater]

9 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said:

Who would sell a player to us with half the fee based on if we get promoted to the premier league? 

We no longer deal with the Gas.

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

 

I'm a bit torn on this one. I do appreciate that we appeared to lack organisational-style leadership at the back (although I think Kalas probably isn't quite as poor in this department as some make him out to be, even if it isn't his greatest strength).

However, above all else I feel we need players who:

1. Are showing good ability right now (i.e. not a player we sign because he was good x years ago, because he got promoted in 2016 etc)

2. Are a good age (they will hold or improve their value over the next few years - ideally they have room for development)

3. Will fit into our system / style of play / ethos

Not necessarily disagreeing with the point about leadership/experience - just feel as though it may rank lower in my requirements than other things. All in all I'd see Atkinson as a good fit for us for the reasons above (plus benefits like aerial ability, left footed etc)

I'd hope that through better coaching, a less changeable back 4, more protection from midfield, and a promising new CB of any age (e.g. Atkinson), we could become notably better defensively next season. 

Of course we do need some experience, but that will largely take care of itself in the free agents we will likely bring in, a couple of which will almost certainly be in their mid 20's or older. 

Fair comments. It's not a necessity for leaders to be older players with someone like Geoff Merrick as a prime example. I may be in the minority of City fans but I believe we do have two strong personalities in Vyner and Moore. With a settled back four/five and a midfield in front of them that doesn't operate like a colander, who knows what can be achieved.

I'll wait for the backlash on that one but it's about building a team which is able to perform at a higher level than the individuals in it.

[GrahamC]

12 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Just one thing that puzzles me about the (alleged) attempt to sign Atkinson.

We need a defence pack leader, do we not? Does a youngster of less than fifty League One appearances fit this major requirement?

Isn’t the simple answer here we need both?

In March Mawson went back to Fulham, last month we released Baker & Mariappa.

Even if Pearson sees Vyner as a CB (& personally I don’t think he does) we are light here, Kalas is our only experienced one, Moore doesn’t convince me 5 years after his debut & Cundy has potential but hasn’t ever played at this level.

I think we are after both Lees & an Atkinson type, not either of them.

[pongo88]

23 hours ago, Super said:

I was at college with a guy called Robert Atkinson.

I was at school with a guy called Matt Smith. He was awful at football 

[swanker]

13 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

 

We have a ship that needs steadying.

 

 

Absolutely. Remember what happened to the Titanic!

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Isn’t the simple answer here we need both?

In March Mawson went back to Fulham, last month we released Baker & Mariappa.

Even if Pearson sees Vyner as a CB (& personally I don’t think he does) we are light here, Kalas is our only experienced one, Moore doesn’t convince me 5 years after his debut & Cundy has potential but hasn’t ever played at this level.

I think we are after both Lees & an Atkinson type, not either of them.

Spot on.  We definitely need 2 preferably with one being left footed and able to play left of a 3 or as emergency left back.

[Nogbad the Bad]

5 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Fair comments. It's not a necessity for leaders to be older players with someone like Geoff Merrick as a prime example. I may be in the minority of City fans but I believe we do have two strong personalities in Vyner and Moore. With a settled back four/five and a midfield in front of them that doesn't operate like a colander, who knows what can be achieved.

I'll wait for the backlash on that one but it's about building a team which is able to perform at a higher level than the individuals in it.

No backlash from me CA - your opinion on Taylor More is as valid as anyone's - certainly mine.

I'm afraid Moore is no Geoff Merrick though - Sir Geoffrey was a very tough and accomplished young man who made his City debut and held his own in this division (much tougher physically in those days) at 17.

TM famously telling LJ that at some stage that he'd like to be Captain, while well publicised, and laudable to an extent, does not in itself single him out as leadership material, particularly if his on field performances do not merit such an honour, or even a regular place in the side after 5 years at AG.

Compare with Flint who was an inspirational character on the pitch, but we were told preferred not to take the armband when offered in order to concentrate on his own game. Nevertheless he continued to lead by example every time he played.

There are some obvious problems when it comes to TM. He doesn't appear to relish enough the physicality of aerial duels, and even the aspect of his game praised by most of his admirers - his notable willingness to stride out of defence with the ball - is tarnished by him far too often then passing the ball directly to the opposition and immediately putting City under pressure, with TM then left hopelessly out of position of course.

He's obviously a very nice guy (note how often he is used as an ever smiIing 'pin-up' for the official site), and a reasonable footballer, but this is not enough. I don't expect him to have a long term career in the Championship and I'll  be surprised if he's at AG much longer. I suspect he will need to look down the leagues to establish a regular first team place and will probably end up as a solid player in L1. Who knows, with further maturity and reducing his mistakes, he may even get his wish to be a Captain at that level.

Vyner is a different proposition imo.  He's far from being a Merrick either, but I expect NP to have one position for him in mind - maybe RB - and to concentrate on developing him further to get him established there, and he'll almost certainly go on to have a good Championship career.

[Davefevs]

Nicely summarised @Nogbad the Bad.

Just because a player asks to be captain, like TM did doesn’t make you captain material.  I do admire him asking, but LJ made more of it than was needed imho.

I did see him show character when partnering Ashley Williams, but not much other than that.

I don’t see Zak as a leader either, but I do like him as a footballer.

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

No backlash from me CA - your opinion on Taylor More is as valid as anyone's - certainly mine.

I'm afraid Moore is no Geoff Merrick though - Sir Geoffrey was a very tough and accomplished young man who made his City debut and held his own in this division (much tougher physically in those days) at 17.

TM famously telling LJ that at some stage that he'd like to be Captain, while well publicised, and laudable to an extent, does not in itself single him out as leadership material, particularly if his on field performances do not merit such an honour, or even a regular place in the side after 5 years at AG.

Compare with Flint who was an inspirational character on the pitch, but we were told preferred not to take the armband when offered in order to concentrate on his own game. Nevertheless he continued to lead by example every time he played.

There are some obvious problems when it comes to TM. He doesn't appear to relish enough the physicality of aerial duels, and even the aspect of his game praised by most of his admirers - his notable willingness to stride out of defence with the ball - is tarnished by him far too often then passing the ball directly to the opposition and immediately putting City under pressure, with TM then left hopelessly out of position of course.

He's obviously a very nice guy (note how often he is used as an ever smiIing 'pin-up' for the official site), and a reasonable footballer, but this is not enough. I don't expect him to have a long term career in the Championship and I'll  be surprised if he's at AG much longer. I suspect he will need to look down the leagues to establish a regular first team place and will probably end up as a solid player in L1. Who knows, with further maturity and reducing his mistakes, he may even get his wish to be a Captain at that level.

Vyner is a different proposition imo.  He's far from being a Merrick either, but I expect NP to have one position for him in mind - maybe RB - and to concentrate on developing him further to get him established there, and he'll almost certainly go on to have a good Championship career.

The reference to Geoff Merrick was really in reference to Atkinson who has only had one year in League One. He may be the "Bees Knees" but I know nothing about him. Clearly reckoned to be a ball playing left centre back but is he a leader type?

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

The reference to Geoff Merrick was really in reference to Atkinson who has only had one year in League One. He may be the "Bees Knees" but I know nothing about him. Clearly reckoned to be a ball playing left centre back but is he a leader type?

I don't know, but I suspect he will have to be for NP to be interested in him.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

No backlash from me CA - your opinion on Taylor More is as valid as anyone's - certainly mine.

I'm afraid Moore is no Geoff Merrick though - Sir Geoffrey was a very tough and accomplished young man who made his City debut and held his own in this division (much tougher physically in those days) at 17.

TM famously telling LJ that at some stage that he'd like to be Captain, while well publicised, and laudable to an extent, does not in itself single him out as leadership material, particularly if his on field performances do not merit such an honour, or even a regular place in the side after 5 years at AG.

Compare with Flint who was an inspirational character on the pitch, but we were told preferred not to take the armband when offered in order to concentrate on his own game. Nevertheless he continued to lead by example every time he played.

There are some obvious problems when it comes to TM. He doesn't appear to relish enough the physicality of aerial duels, and even the aspect of his game praised by most of his admirers - his notable willingness to stride out of defence with the ball - is tarnished by him far too often then passing the ball directly to the opposition and immediately putting City under pressure, with TM then left hopelessly out of position of course.

He's obviously a very nice guy (note how often he is used as an ever smiIing 'pin-up' for the official site), and a reasonable footballer, but this is not enough. I don't expect him to have a long term career in the Championship and I'll  be surprised if he's at AG much longer. I suspect he will need to look down the leagues to establish a regular first team place and will probably end up as a solid player in L1. Who knows, with further maturity and reducing his mistakes, he may even get his wish to be a Captain at that level.

Vyner is a different proposition imo.  He's far from being a Merrick either, but I expect NP to have one position for him in mind - maybe RB - and to concentrate on developing him further to get him established there, and he'll almost certainly go on to have a good Championship career.

Agree 100% with every word.

I’d just add that Moore also struggles against clever movement from a forward, often losing position against one, as Norwich & Watford in particular exploited.

I think he is battling Cundy for 4th choice at CB myself & if Cundy does well in the pre season games & we are able to secure the 2 we need then he’ll move on sooner rather than later.

[cidered abroad]

To clarify, I have no particular opinion about Taylor Moore. The last twelve months has not shown 98% of the squad in a good light at all.

I, like most of us, am trying to work out what NP is thinking about those within contract that he is left with. The departure of anyone, including Bentley and Kallas, wouldn't surprise me. I have very few that I would want to keep anyway. That is excluding the Academy lads who worked so hard when selected.

Because funds for recruiting are not plentiful, NP may be forced to keep some that he doesn't want. He will need to work hard with several of the retainees for them to be seen in a positive light by him.

An interesting seven or eight weeks to come.

[PHILINFRANCE]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Agree 100% with every word.

I’d just add that Moore also struggles against clever movement from a forward, often losing position against one, as Norwich & Watford in particular exploited.

I think he is battling Cundy for 4th choice at CB myself & if Cundy does well in the pre season games & we are able to secure the 2 we need then he’ll move on sooner rather than later.

It is unfortunate, as TM presents as a fine, thoroughly decent and upstanding young man; qualities that, in many walks of life, would indeed make him a leader of men.

Regrettably, football is a special case where such admirable qualities are not necessarily recognised or, if they are, fail to be appreciated by young men who seek other, more ‘earthy’ traits in their captain.

Re. TM’s shortcomings as a player against nimble, canny forwards, he has been embarrassed twice against Middlesbrough alone; the pass he received from DB when he appeared to be looking the other way and the long ball when he was marking Assambola (spelling).

[Gol]

https://the72.co.uk/239866/bristol-city-ready-to-pay-1-6m-asking-price-for-oxford-uniteds-rob-atkinson/

[Hampshire reds]

if Rob Atkinson is the man nige wants then pay the fee and get it done. 

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

if Rob Atkinson is the man nige wants then pay the fee and get it done. 

That depends on the player too. He may be waiting to see what other clubs might be prepared to meet the price for instance.

Unfortunately transfers involve multiple parties so you can't just snap your fingers and it's done.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

That depends on the player too. He may be waiting to see what other clubs might be prepared to meet the price for instance.

Unfortunately transfers involve multiple parties so you can't just snap your fingers and it's done.

100%, plus with the financial impact of Covid, if we really are paying £1.6m for him that is all our budget for fees gone, I think.

Unless of course we can sell someone, which at present seems unlikely.

[Loosey Boy]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

100%, plus with the financial impact of Covid, if we really are paying £1.6m for him that is all our budget for fees gone, I think.

Unless of course we can sell someone, which at present seems unlikely.

I think Nige will have a bit more money than £1.6m to spend (if these rumours are true) as think it unlikely that we will get the type of striker he wants on a free. If it’s Smith, expect us to pay up to £1m for him perhaps? 

[Davefevs]

If it’s £1.6m that seems a very sensible fee.  Missing out on promo will’ve cost Oxford the chance of keeping him or selling him at a much higher fee, probably £3m (guesswork).  The opposite has happened with Yates, where they are now putting people off with £5m or go away.

@Loosey Boy agree there’s a little bit left….much of fee available will be determined by wages of players.

Atkinson £1.6m over 4 years, say £6k p.w. Is ok, £700k p.a. cost for hopefully a rising asset.