Davefevs Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Got to hand it to some of you, your knowledge of this stuff is amazing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 With the cash due to run out before the end of January, is this 'The beginning of the end'? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Hxj said: With the cash due to run out before the end of January, is this 'The beginning of the end'? Doubt it. Whilst their situation is pretty bleak, I just can't see a club like Derby going under. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: I just can't see a club like Derby going under I can. There's a long list of companies who were too big to fail but did. Almost 4 months into the Administration and no obvious real progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Doubt it. Whilst their situation is pretty bleak, I just can't see a club like Derby going under. I can too @Hxj Saw this earlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 11/01/2022 at 20:16, Mr Popodopolous said: Interesting bit by Simon Jordan today. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-simon-jordan-middlesbrough-6474071 Speaks if a feeling that - 21 isn't enough among other EFL clubs as Derby (like everyone else in a sense I presume) took advantage of the exemptions and allowances during Covid for tax etc- and then went into administration as we were approaching a return to more normal business conditions entered administration! Only just read this but worth remembering that SJ is good friends of one the administrators. I guess he is acting as an unofficial ' mouthpiece' for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Sadly that's nail number two in the coffin. He's done very well for Derby this season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Presumably Derby/Admins failed to prove to the EFL that they have the funds to see out the season whilst also extending Jagielka. As we discussed months ago as the thin squad gets thinner so relegation looms larger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 43 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Presumably Derby/Admins failed to prove to the EFL that they have the funds to see out the season whilst also extending Jagielka. As we discussed months ago as the thin squad gets thinner so relegation looms larger. Some people still don’t get it to they? The EFL are applying the rules. Re player sales (not contract extensions), I can see why a couple of teams put in low bids, because they can see good possibility that Derby will get wound up, player contracts become null and void, and the players become available outside of the window for zilch…so why not try a silly offer now. When Bury went under, their players were allowed to register outside the window. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Was waiting for this event. They are on their arse. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Was waiting for this event. They are on their arse. Same. Quantuma update later today apparently, can't imagine it's going to be particularly good. Wonder what famed insolvency practitioner Wayne Rooney is thinking now? Could he be next to leave? Should be able to get himself a nice job at Quantuma given his extensive knowledge of restructuring and insolvency practice. Edited January 14, 2022 by ExiledAjax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 17 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Wayne being kept out of the loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 41 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Some people still don’t get it to they? The EFL are applying the rules. A speculation post. I suspect what has happened is that Quantuma have interpreted the EFL's budget in one manner, and had decided yesterday that they could satisfy it for the season. They told Rooney this, and began sorting out extensions for the likes of Jagielka. They've popped down to EFL HQ yesterday and the EFL have looked over the budget, and told them that actually X should include A and B, or that Z can't actually be excluded. These things mean that the budget Quantuma drew up is wrong. Quantuma then have to go back and say that actually Jags has to go, oh and also we need to sell some players asap unless you want us liquidated now. As for any bidders - those bids were probably made on the basis that the EFL would approve the budget for the remainder of the season, so they will need to be revised as well. So whilst I expect that yes, the EFL are 'applying the rules', they may be applying them in a way that is slightly different to how Quantuma expect they might be applied - or even have even been previously told they would be applied. All just cock ups of communication and the like, but I've seen it happen with clients and regulators (for the purposes of this sentence the EFL is a 'regulator') more often than you'd believe. I have personally had one employee of Companies House tell me one procedure is correct, I followed that procedure, then a week later went back to Companies House and spoke to a different employee (the first was now on holiday) who told me there were some other steps that were required. That was a shitty chat with my boss and generally a crap day for me, and all because CH 'moved the goalposts'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 28 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Was waiting for this event. They are on their arse. Wonder if it was renew on limited terms, or renew on the same terms, or was it a case of well, we can't renew you because we have no money. And worse than that, we are now under a new embargo. Guess Ashley is watching this play out and lowering his offer by the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 BBC article, suggesting trying to broker a deal with Boro and Wycombe, whilst also saying HMRC are gonna give up £20m of the £28m owed. Is that really true, or just how a “payment plan” might work? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59995698 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Is that really true, or just how a “payment plan” might work? Sounds like a load of baloney to me. Just doesn't sound right. However even those figures, and paying off MSD, will require someone to put in at least £40 million, probably a lot more. Edited January 14, 2022 by Hxj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 Just been confirmed on the Derby Official Site that Jagielka has left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 I dont think Derby County will exist by the end of the month, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 Hi Mel. EFL got Derby on strings! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 @Davefevs @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous Not sure how much to believe the below post from DCFC Forum. Tallies a little with what I said earlier, that Quantuma thought they fitted into the budget, and the EFL brought new items in. Personally, I am surprised that Derby/Quantuma cannot source some insurance to cover the Wycombe and Boro claims. Maybe currently they can't, but if it's such a stumbling block then any bidder should be asked to pay for some insurance to cover the possibility of those claims being successful. If they are as confident as they say they are that the claims would fail, then surely paying a couple of million in an insurance premium is worth it. Litigation insurance isn't my expertise, but I recall previous clients obtaining this kind of thing when in insolvency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: @Davefevs @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous Not sure how much to believe the below post from DCFC Forum. Tallies a little with what I said earlier, that Quantuma thought they fitted into the budget, and the EFL brought new items in. Personally, I am surprised that Derby/Quantuma cannot source some insurance to cover the Wycombe and Boro claims. Maybe currently they can't, but if it's such a stumbling block then any bidder should be asked to pay for some insurance to cover the possibility of those claims being successful. If they are as confident as they say they are that the claims would fail, then surely paying a couple of million in an insurance premium is worth it. Litigation insurance isn't my expertise, but I recall previous clients obtaining this kind of thing when in insolvency. That post I think is fan fiction and just follows the narrative that the efl have it in for Derby and its all one big conspiracy theory, It isn't 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: @Davefevs @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous Not sure how much to believe the below post from DCFC Forum. Tallies a little with what I said earlier, that Quantuma thought they fitted into the budget, and the EFL brought new items in. Personally, I am surprised that Derby/Quantuma cannot source some insurance to cover the Wycombe and Boro claims. Maybe currently they can't, but if it's such a stumbling block then any bidder should be asked to pay for some insurance to cover the possibility of those claims being successful. If they are as confident as they say they are that the claims would fail, then surely paying a couple of million in an insurance premium is worth it. Litigation insurance isn't my expertise, but I recall previous clients obtaining this kind of thing when in insolvency. Interesting! I guess one view is - you (MM’s Derby) took the piss in the first place, then MM placed you into Admin when he could’ve continued to fund it….we are getting our own back! Im sure it’s not anywhere near as black and white as I make it above, but it shows how maintaining a good relationship can be key, Derby have not played ball at any point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Monkeh said: That post I think is fan fiction and just follows the narrative that the efl have it in for Derby and its all one big conspiracy theory, It isn't Yeh, this guy could easily be one of the less reliable posters on Derby's forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Yeh, this guy could easily be one of the less reliable posters on Derby's forum. Indeed where it falls down is the fact they owe money to the Crown, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Indeed where it falls down is the fact they owe money to the Crown, No doubt a problem yes, but Derby/Quantuma are more likely to get a payment plan out of HMRC than out of Boro or Wycombe. Also, the HMRC debt is a known and fixed quantity, so bidders have certainty over the debt they are taking on, and how it will be settled. On the other hand, whilst Boro and Wycombe's claims may be for a certain sum, there's no guarantee regarding the costs for defending them, or the time it takes, or what might eventually be ordered as payment. It's that uncertainty that, in my opinion, makes those claims the bigger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: No doubt a problem yes, but Derby/Quantuma are more likely to get a payment plan out of HMRC than out of Boro or Wycombe. Also, the HMRC debt is a known and fixed quantity, so bidders have certainty over the debt they are taking on, and how it will be settled. On the other hand, whilst Boro and Wycombe's claims may be for a certain sum, there's no guarantee regarding the costs for defending them, or the time it takes, or what might eventually be ordered as payment. It's that uncertainty that, in my opinion, makes those claims the bigger problem. The only way Wycombe and boro go away is if Derby are liquidated and a phonex club is formed, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Monkeh said: I dont think Derby County will exist by the end of the month, If Derby disappeared before the end of the season, would it still be 3 going down? I'm guessing it would. And we'd also lose the 3 points gained in beating them. All of which would drop us right in the mire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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