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havanatopia

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Only if the council is prepared to cut £20m worth of services to fund the purchase of a football stadium.

Yeah, agreed. Unless they're sitting on a big surplus I guess but hard to justify unless there will be a tangible benefit to the council in the medium to financial term ie rent, commercial revenue arrangements etc.

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phantom

phantom

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Posted
1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

the whole thing is just a basket case, why dont the efl just do the decent thing, put everyone there out of their misery and boot them out the league so they can go bust and get it all wrote off?

Possibly waiting for the season to end? 

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Eddie Hitler

Eddie Hitler

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

The problem there is Football fans thinking everyone cares about the Club, they don't.
I'd be going mad if , as a non Football person, I saw my Council Tax going towards a thing that has had millions thrown at it, and wasted. I imagine the Council would be aware enough to realise. Again, it needs people to be sensible, Football fans rarely are. 

 

Plymouth council bought Home Park when Argyle was going through one of its regular meltdowns and leased or rented it back to them.

When they were back to having a solvent owner they bought it back.

As long as it's all at fair market prices it looks a sensible way for a council to behave: they receive a market return on their investment whilst preserving a sports ground in the middle of the city from redevelopment.

I don't live in Bristol but would like to think that the council would step in if either City or Rovers were in financial trouble to prevent the grounds from disappearing under yet more housing; as long as it was transparent and at market rates.

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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Plymouth council bought Home Park when Argyle was going through one of its regular meltdowns and leased or rented it back to them.

When they were back to having a solvent owner they bought it back.

As long as it's all at fair market prices it looks a sensible way for a council to behave: they receive a market return on their investment whilst preserving a sports ground in the middle of the city from redevelopment.

I don't live in Bristol but would like to think that the council would step in if either City or Rovers were in financial trouble to prevent the grounds from disappearing under yet more housing; as long as it was transparent and at market rates.

The problem in Bristol is that having 2 clubs, inevitably 2 sections of the population will be against it. The non football people, and Fans of the other Club. I seem to remember that it was mentioned on here, R*vers stepped in to stop the Council helping us in 82.

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So who are the parties delaying and undermining the process? Is this another attempt to blame the EFL knowing Derby fans will lap it up as usual and deflect attention from Quantuma?

Quantuma - Latin for “blame everyone else lots”.

 

 

(possibly)

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Looks to me like no one wants to pay the asking price, and has been that way for a very long time. Is the  sticking point is Morris and the ground, and what he is trying to salvage for himself.

likely to be one of the hurdles, but I’m not convinced any agreement (tentative or not) has been reached with HMRC either.  So many opinions that 25p/£1 is done and dusted, which imho is a ludicrous assumption.  Payment plan, maybe, but they’d still want a good slug up front wouldn’t they?

Ashley is a bit of a distressed sale master, he will be hanging this one out as long as he can, stringing them along , knowing that there is no funding after the last game of the season. If he makes a short term deal to play away from Pride Park, it leaves Morris with a facility no one wants, and a £20m debt against it. I do not see the club liquidated, but as it has no players and no ground, how can it be worth anything ? This will go to the wire, and IMHO will go to the end of the season now.

yep, this is right up Ashley’s street, and like or dislike him and his practices, Derby need someone who can run a tight ship…and he will do that.  Your notion of playing away from Pride Park would piss on Mel’s chips, and I wonder if 1) that’s what he’s angling for and 2) Mel knows that and is trying to steer Quantuma towards other bidders.  Either Ashley wins, or Derby get liquidated.  Morris ducked up when he sold PP.

Derby County playing at the Proact Stadium (Chesterfield) next season. Most probably in the same league.

Has a lot of legs.

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Council pay off debt to MSD/Mel and acquire the ground,

How about this?

The first bit then the lease/agreement...

  • 10% rent- £2.-2.5m per year maybe depending on exactly how big the debt around Pride Park is, upward in line with inflation or downward if we get deflation
  • Split the commercial revenue 50/50 with the council, either put an unilateral option for the club to buy after a given period or revert back to the club after the Council hit a certain profit.
  • Repairs the responsibility of the club.

Is MM still an ambassador for business and innovation for Derby and Derbyshire council? 
 

A buyout by the relative councils of the ground would take a feat of legal dexterity in a short period under those circumstances! 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Plymouth council bought Home Park when Argyle was going through one of its regular meltdowns and leased or rented it back to them.

When they were back to having a solvent owner they bought it back.

As long as it's all at fair market prices it looks a sensible way for a council to behave: they receive a market return on their investment whilst preserving a sports ground in the middle of the city from redevelopment.

I don't live in Bristol but would like to think that the council would step in if either City or Rovers were in financial trouble to prevent the grounds from disappearing under yet more housing; as long as it was transparent and at market rates.

Don't disagree- in principle although very straitened times and local Government have become badly stretched in the last 10-15 years from what I understand.

That bit aside, yes if it's fair value and transparent- don't disagree...think Plymouth paid 8-9% rent ie that was the yield, saw an article or a document a while ago when looking into stadium transactions. I think along the lines of the kind of deal structure I suggested would benefit all.

The £1 rent however suggested on their forum...especially with straitened times both nationally and with local Govt. finances and inflation!?

Found it- £1.6m fee paid, rent was £135k per year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-15354187

There was also a buyback option.

Quote

The council deal means Argyle would have an option to buy back the ground every five years for a sum equal to 12 times the then annual rent.

Let's extrapolate for Derby.

£22m MSD debt, Pride Park to council. Rent therefore £1,856,250 per year.

5 years in they can buy back at £22,275,000 should they so choose.

As I said last night though, with a) The extra revenue streams via Pride Park and b) A bigger fanbase (although Plymouth could easily attract a major fanbase top end Championship or above IMO) the deal can be more creative.

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Is MM still an ambassador for business and innovation for Derby and Derbyshire council? 
 

A buyout by the relative councils of the ground would take a feat of legal dexterity in a short period under those circumstances! 

He is yes, I believe.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/mel-morris-role-business-ambassador-6557839

Last bit on it, not looked into it in depth but unsure that it did change substantially!

Sounds like he still is!

https://twitter.com/search?q=mel morris ambassador&src=typed_query&f=live

https://twitter.com/search?q=derbycc ambassador&src=typed_query&f=live

Pretty unbelievable if true, no?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I don't live in Bristol but would like to think that the council would step in if either City or Rovers were in financial trouble to prevent the grounds from disappearing under yet more housing; as long as it was transparent and at market rates.

Absolutely no chance of Bristol City Council supporting either team.

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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, chinapig said:

So who are the parties delaying and undermining the process? Is this another attempt to blame the EFL knowing Derby fans will lap it up as usual and deflect attention from Quantuma?

Yes, sounds like it is. Clearly, if Quantuma's straw man is invisible then the inference is that they're making things up to suit their agenda. (Which seems to be 'make sure we aren't hired by anyone again',)

Edited by Sleepy1968
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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't disagree- in principle although very straitened times and local Government have become badly stretched in the last 10-15 years from what I understand.

That bit aside, yes if it's fair value and transparent- don't disagree...think Plymouth paid 8-9% rent ie that was the yield, saw an article or a document a while ago when looking into stadium transactions. I think along the lines of the kind of deal structure I suggested would benefit all.

The £1 rent however suggested on their forum...especially with straitened times both nationally and with local Govt. finances and inflation!?

Found it- £1.6m fee paid, rent was £135k per year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-15354187

There was also a buyback option.

Let's extrapolate for Derby.

£22m MSD debt, Pride Park to council. Rent therefore £1,856,250 per year.

5 years in they can buy back at £22,275,000 should they so choose.

As I said last night though, with a) The extra revenue streams via Pride Park and b) A bigger fanbase (although Plymouth could easily attract a major fanbase top end Championship or above IMO) the deal can be more creative.

He is yes, I believe.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/mel-morris-role-business-ambassador-6557839

Last bit on it, not looked into it in depth but unsure that it did change substantially!

Sounds like he still is!

https://twitter.com/search?q=mel morris ambassador&src=typed_query&f=live

https://twitter.com/search?q=derbycc ambassador&src=typed_query&f=live

Pretty unbelievable if true, no?

Nothing is unbelievable about this shitfest, however it does really put the tin hat on everything. 
 

If he is still the business/innovation ambassador any purchase of the ground by Derby/Derbyshire will be fraught with challenges and to be frank even if he resigned it will be too!!
 

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

Quick bit- I'll leave others who know more about it than me but wondering how it all works- here is some of the MSD stuff and by process of elimination August 2020 and October 2020 appear to be Derby related.

Not actually altogether clear where the August 2020 one is tbh- it used to be on there!

https://tisegroup.com/market/companies/8061

Maybe it only goes back so far? I looked at it a while back. By process of elimination the Derby loan might be at 7.75% interest. They loan to a range of clubs and businesses but has the October 2020 one just amalgamated with the August 2020 one? Unsecured loan notes though...that can't be right because MSD as at CH have plenty of security- floating, fixed etc IIRC.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Waconda said:

This - EFL have been doing everything in their power NOT to deal with this before the fixtures are finished.

It will be allowed to go on for a while yet.

It's not the efl's responsibility to sort Derby County out, that's the administrators responsibility,

The efls responsibility is to make sure clubs stick to the rules, Derby didn't do this and has been punished,

Derby have the money to forfil their fixtures and should be alloud too,

 

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Waconda

Waconda

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

It's not the efl's responsibility to sort Derby County out, that's the administrators responsibility,

The efls responsibility is to make sure clubs stick to the rules, Derby didn't do this and has been punished,

Derby have the money to forfil their fixtures and should be alloud too,

 

Glad you agree.

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Hxj

Hxj

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll leave others who know more about it than me but wondering how it all works

These are loan notes issued by MSD UK Holdings Ltd, in other words they receive cash, probably from MSD (Tax Haven) Ltd.  The reason that they are quoted on a stock exchange is that any interest that is paid on them is exempt from UK taxation if it is received by a non-UK resident.

MSD UK will lend the funds received to a borrower, say DCFC, at at interest rate such that it makes a reasonable margin, which is taxed in the UK.

Edited by Hxj
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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Monkeh said:

It's not the efl's responsibility to sort Derby County out, that's the administrators responsibility,

The efls responsibility is to make sure clubs stick to the rules, Derby didn't do this and has been punished,

Derby have the money to forfil their fixtures and should be alloud too,

 

But do they though ?

Didn't I read there was some doubt bout paying players ? That in it's self could bring more sanctions .

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