BTRFTG Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: In fact, though I undoubtedly agree with the thrust of your post, there was some puzzlement there too- was the "Profits method" as opposed to DRC IIRC- this was a sticking point between club and EFL. DRC was £74.4m and for some unaccountable reason, the Profits method of £81.1m was upheld. DRC seems the only sensible method for this kinda transaction IMO. https://www.dcfc.co.uk/media/get/EFL Derby County Decision Document.pdf I get the DRC method but I struggle to see how the Profits method is that reliable- feels like it is rather open to fluctuation! From IDC 1. Is a long read- 123 pages- but there are bits on it, I think the test failed as although Derby cited a 'With Profits' figure based on non assured, impaired accounts, the clever lawyers managed to extract a range of DRC values based on the point I made, that nobody ever rebuilds as was, such there was a consideration for a DRC figure for what most likely would have been a replacement. The judgement looked at the lower and higher DRCs and the midpoint was slightly higher than the 'With Profits' figure Derby had used, therefore had to conclude the EFL hadn't proven the charge the stadium was over valued, though any sensible person knows that DRC is NOT a realistic market valuation, it's for accountancy and risk only. Derby won on semantics, not fact. For stuff like commercial buildings 'With Profits' is a very reliable measure, hence buildings values fluctuate dependant upon the quality of leases issued against them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: I think the test failed as although Derby cited a 'With Profits' figure based on non assured, impaired accounts, the clever lawyers managed to extract a range of DRC values based on the point I made, that nobody ever rebuilds as was, such there was a consideration for a DRC figure for what most likely would have been a replacement. The judgement looked at the lower and higher DRCs and the midpoint was slightly higher than the 'With Profits' figure Derby had used, therefore had to conclude the EFL hadn't proven the charge the stadium was over valued, though any sensible person knows that DRC is NOT a realistic market valuation, it's for accountancy and risk only. Derby won on semantics, not fact. For stuff like commercial buildings 'With Profits' is a very reliable measure, hence buildings values fluctuate dependant upon the quality of leases issued against them. Thanks- and that does make sense, not least as the valuer hired by Derby set a fair rent of £4.16m per season which is roughly in line with the 5% yield bracket- quality of lease, do you mean yield/return? Although Derby tried yet another trick which was £1.1m per year on days usage...certainly doubt the EFL have accepted that for P&S/FFP purposes- although the EFL had yet another valuation of about £50m but their hired valuer chose some crazy examples. They took an awful lot on face value in 2018 and 2019 which kinda tied their hands somewhat. I don't see why the EFL shouldn't insist on a paper rent of £4.16m per year being substituted in moving forward though for FFP purposes- after all a) Mel Morris still values it at £81.1m and b) The Independent Valuer hired by Derby gave that number. Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Funds didn’t arrive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms! This is now official, SSN confirmed he has withdrawn his offer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 What’s amused me the last couple of days is how many people claimed to be in the know of his bank account 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Lot of back tracking from nixon me thinks, And basically Derby have 2 weeks to complete a takeover, and as they are desperate, it won't be on favourable terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms! Well, that was totally unexpected. Who would have guessed? Not Nixon for sure who may now lose an awful lot of Derby based Patreon subscribers. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Is -15 incoming now? Will the EFL's preferred business plan be acceptable to any or all prospective bidders? Remember that along with Football creditors being paid in full, accepting what monitoring and oversight the EFL consider necessary, and potentially the bits about unsecured creditors, HMRC getting minimum payment is quite important for EFL approval... Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 They`re ****** aren`t they? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) In theory no, they have- 10 days is it- until the fixtures are out. Can it go beyond that? Must be no bending of rules though- the rules are the rules that bind us all. Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Ok. I think we need to be very clear what we mean when we are saying that a club has been expelled from the EFL. It's a pretty serious thing, and getting it wrong will lead to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about the state Derby are in. 9 hours ago, BTRFTG said: I believe the EFL view membership as somewhat more than simply holding a (largely symbolic) share. This is about the black and white (together?) of the Articles of Association of The Football League Limited (and related Regulations). Ownership of a share in the The Football League Limited is not symbolic at all, it is the membership ticket that allows a club to participate in the division it is in, to play matches, and to benefit from prize money and other financial distributions. This is why any potential buyer wants to buy the entity to which the share is issued. If a share was symbolic only then one could simply purchase the badge, the IP, maybe the stadium, and have player contracts assigned from that entity, and then participate in the competitions organised by EFL. But that's not the case because Articles and the Regulations say that a 'Member Club' is a club that is a shareholder (although they use the word Member) of The Football League Limited - so an entity can only be a member if you are a shareholder of that company. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Recall one can't gift or pass the share to anyone (that requires EFL approval,) Correct. Article 6 is a pretty standard form article prohibiting the transfer of any share without the approval of the Board of the EFL. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: when exiting the EFL either way one has to cede the share (no choice in the matter,) Kind of. If by 'EFL' you mean The Football League Limited then of course, when promoted from the Championship or relegated from League 2, a club may - under Regulation 4.1 - resign from membership of The Football League Limited at the end of a season. Resigning in any other way activates the indemnity in Regulation 4.2. The actual obligation on The Football League Limited to accept these resignations is in Regulations 7.7, 7.8, and 10 - those conditions are long and dull but essentially The Football League Limited promise to honour promotion and relegation by enabling the issue and repurchase of such shares as are necessary. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: the share may be removed via the expulsion process. Yes, as set out in my earlier post. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: once in administration one's membership (though not technically share at that point,) is removed. No. Ownership of a share is membership and it's not possible to separate the two concepts. Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) is under Notice that the Board of the The Football League Limited intend to force them to sell their share - the share currently held by Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) - for 5p. That Notice of Withdrawal is referred to in the statement from yesterday "The EFL has today informed the Administrators at Derby County that...it is changing the terms of the suspended Notice of Withdrawal issued when the Club entered into administration in September 2021." and "The suspension of the Notice of Withdrawal of the Club’s share in the EFL is subject to conditions that, in accordance with the League’s insolvency policy, the EFL Board determine...". Both these are consistent with the procedure I set out, as it is set out within the articles of The Football League Limited. This is also clear that a) a Notice has been issued, but b) it is suspended. The Notice is suspended, not the membership. Furthermore, anecdotally Derby County Football Club (in administration) must have still held (and still does hold) a valid membership after entering administration. If it did not, if it were expelled at the point at which it entered administration, then under the articles and Regulations it had no right to compete in any EFL competition since September 2021. Yet it did. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: From yesterday's statement I'm not sure the EFL might think Q 'fit and proper' but that's moot given, if I remember correctly, Q will have no power or influence within the EFL membership. The Joint Administrators would each individually almost certainly pass the Owners and Directors test. All three are licensed insolvency practitioners and so, given that registration is onerous as well, are unlikely to have been involved in any Disqualifying Event. The Joint Administrators control a company that holds a share in The Football League Limited. So they do have some power - they control one vote out of the 72 that could feasibly be cast in any EFL vote. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Consider also the extraordinary powers the EFL exerted yesterday, setting mandatory constraints on how the administrators MUST act. Wouldn't happen elsewhere in business but I think they are able to do so under the membership powers (i.e. if you don't like it you don't have to be a member of this group.) As I said, and as the EFL say in their statement, these powers are imposed under the conditions of the Notice of Withdrawal - ie under article 4.8 of the articles of association. "...the EFL has informed the Administrators that there will be a revision to the conditions attached to the suspension and the EFL is now to be made a party to all correspondence and discussions between the Administrators, and any and all potential bidders, with an acknowledgment that the League will be able to negotiate directly in relation to matters concerning the transfer of the share in the EFL." It is pretty clear. It also supports the argument that Derby County Football Club Ltd remains a Member Club as if it was not a Member Club then it would no longer be bound by article 4.8 and so could simply ignore the EFL's changes to the Notice of Withdrawal...because it would already have been withdrawn from the register of shareholders of the Football League Limited. In the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary we have to go with the legal structure set out in the articles and Regulations. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 It looks as if I may have been a little slow in posting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Lot of back tracking from nixon me thinks, And basically Derby have 2 weeks to complete a takeover, and as they are desperate, it won't be on favourable terms Ashley or bust, then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 21 minutes ago, chinapig said: Not Nixon for sure who may now lose an awful lot of Derby based Patreon subscribers. Haha, great mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DaveF said: Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid Also on BBC. I take it his takeover and funds transfer are no longer imminent. Edited June 13, 2022 by Sir Geoff Change text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, DaveF said: Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid Right. Onto 'ze list' with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said: I take it his takeover and funds transfer are no longer imminent. Incorrect - it is still imminent - and will always be so! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 It's to be hoped that the efl are following the advice on otib! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Has Ze List been updated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, billywedlock said: Well , no shock there . I have to blame Quantuma here . There was good reason I said , way back , let’s see the money when CK came back on the scene . If I was aware of those shortcomings , then what sort of due diligence did they do with the extensive network they could have verified with ? This is exactly as it was always going to pan out . I have no idea what CK was on , or what games he was playing . But I do know he did not have the money . IMHO this is better news for Derby , because if by some miracle he has found the first payments , Derby would have been back in admin within a year is my forecast . sell to Ashley , he will build it up and sell when he gets them to the Prem . They need someone who has real money . Watch the mess Birmingham are now heading into with their takeover . That will not end well either imho. He is a crypto bro, as soon as the bottom fell put of the market his finances dried up 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, TomF said: Today probably finished him. Massive Cyrptocrash Been a few of those lately, Wasn't bitcoin worth 64k a couple of months back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 37 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Has Ze List been updated? The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image) 147. Alan Nixon 148. Matt Slater 149. Coventry City 150. The sun 151. Jack Marriott 152. The Sex Pistols 153. QPR 154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB 155. Secret squirrels 156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer 157. Mr Magoo 158. Douglas Adams 159. Philip Madoc 160. Will Smith and Chris Rock 161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi 162. Hans Von Dunkelroter 163. The Clash 164. Mr Popodopolous 165. The awkward "preferred bidder" 166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread 167. Strummer 168. India Willoughby 169. Narcissists 170. Reading FC 171. Paul Ince 172. Status Quo 173. Agent Penguin 174. Sam Surridge 175. Joao Carvalho 176. Stoke City 177. Buildabonfire177 178. No Limits Sports Limited 179. 2 Unlimited 180. Golf 181. Obi Wan Kenobi 182. LTLF mods 183. Eddie Yates 184. Peter Ridsdale 185. Guy Moussi 186. RichNFFC's daughter 187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah) 188. Alan Hinton 189. Red flags 190. Nathan Tyson 191. Trents 192. Common sense 193. Acrobat 194. ShakeyRed 195. Other teams getting results 196. Baba Rahman 197. Fulham fans 198. Buildabonfire177's friend 199. Rules 200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre 201. Captain Sinister 202. Paul Merson 203. Domino's Pizza 204. Jeff Hendrick 205. Accrington Stanley 206. West Brom fans 207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form) 208. Mr Blonde 209. Wigan Athletic 210. EFL Rule 14.3.2 211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday) 212. Gene Wilder 213. Ichthyostega 214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times) 215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason) 216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road) 217. Flagman 218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again) 219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry) 220. Rzarecteh 221. Malcolm Ebiowei 222. Ramstrust and BAWT 223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry) 224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton) 225. Erik 226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing 227. Gamble 228. Wred 229. Winnits 230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!) 231. Tiff 232. Brian Potter 233. Demetrius Andrade 234. Thomas Tuchel 235. Death Cab for Cutie 236. Detroit City FC 237. Colleen Rooney 238. Hugh Tomlinson QC 239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd 240. Famous Forestzoe 241. Czeslaw Michniewicz 242. Jeremy Corbyn 243. Rockabilly's flag 244. Augustus 245. Long Eaton Tesco 246. Mrs Beardo7 247. Levi Samuels Colwill 248. Steve Cooper 249. Jonathan Moss 250. Aladdin's lamp 251. EmmersonForest4 252. Transport for London 253. "The gap" 254. Sadiq Khan 255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby) 256. Depeche Mode 257. East Midlands news 258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan) 259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays 260. Glassdoor 261. Manic Street Preachers 262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army 263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode) 264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind) 265. Rafa Nadal 266. The financial police 267. Bury AFC 268. Ramsbottom United 269. Silverdale 270. People being mean to Quantuma 271. James Hooton 272. Emmerdale 273. CBX1985 274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse) 275. Other EFL clubs 276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!) 2 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 34 minutes ago, billywedlock said: Well , no shock there . I have to blame Quantuma here . There was good reason I said , way back , let’s see the money when CK came back on the scene . If I was aware of those shortcomings , then what sort of due diligence did they do with the extensive network they could have verified with ? This is exactly as it was always going to pan out . I have no idea what CK was on , or what games he was playing . But I do know he did not have the money . IMHO this is better news for Derby , because if by some miracle he has found the first payments , Derby would have been back in admin within a year is my forecast . sell to Ashley , he will build it up and sell when he gets them to the Prem . They need someone who has real money . Watch the mess Birmingham are now heading into with their takeover . That will not end well either imho. yes, listening to Price of Football pod this morning, KM couldn't believe they'd had CK as preferred bidder, after all the shenanigans with DCFC and PNE, and DCFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Marvin said: The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image) 147. Alan Nixon 148. Matt Slater 149. Coventry City 150. The sun 151. Jack Marriott 152. The Sex Pistols 153. QPR 154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB 155. Secret squirrels 156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer 157. Mr Magoo 158. Douglas Adams 159. Philip Madoc 160. Will Smith and Chris Rock 161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi 162. Hans Von Dunkelroter 163. The Clash 164. Mr Popodopolous 165. The awkward "preferred bidder" 166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread 167. Strummer 168. India Willoughby 169. Narcissists 170. Reading FC 171. Paul Ince 172. Status Quo 173. Agent Penguin 174. Sam Surridge 175. Joao Carvalho 176. Stoke City 177. Buildabonfire177 178. No Limits Sports Limited 179. 2 Unlimited 180. Golf 181. Obi Wan Kenobi 182. LTLF mods 183. Eddie Yates 184. Peter Ridsdale 185. Guy Moussi 186. RichNFFC's daughter 187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah) 188. Alan Hinton 189. Red flags 190. Nathan Tyson 191. Trents 192. Common sense 193. Acrobat 194. ShakeyRed 195. Other teams getting results 196. Baba Rahman 197. Fulham fans 198. Buildabonfire177's friend 199. Rules 200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre 201. Captain Sinister 202. Paul Merson 203. Domino's Pizza 204. Jeff Hendrick 205. Accrington Stanley 206. West Brom fans 207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form) 208. Mr Blonde 209. Wigan Athletic 210. EFL Rule 14.3.2 211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday) 212. Gene Wilder 213. Ichthyostega 214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times) 215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason) 216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road) 217. Flagman 218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again) 219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry) 220. Rzarecteh 221. Malcolm Ebiowei 222. Ramstrust and BAWT 223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry) 224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton) 225. Erik 226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing 227. Gamble 228. Wred 229. Winnits 230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!) 231. Tiff 232. Brian Potter 233. Demetrius Andrade 234. Thomas Tuchel 235. Death Cab for Cutie 236. Detroit City FC 237. Colleen Rooney 238. Hugh Tomlinson QC 239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd 240. Famous Forestzoe 241. Czeslaw Michniewicz 242. Jeremy Corbyn 243. Rockabilly's flag 244. Augustus 245. Long Eaton Tesco 246. Mrs Beardo7 247. Levi Samuels Colwill 248. Steve Cooper 249. Jonathan Moss 250. Aladdin's lamp 251. EmmersonForest4 252. Transport for London 253. "The gap" 254. Sadiq Khan 255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby) 256. Depeche Mode 257. East Midlands news 258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan) 259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays 260. Glassdoor 261. Manic Street Preachers 262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army 263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode) 264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind) 265. Rafa Nadal 266. The financial police 267. Bury AFC 268. Ramsbottom United 269. Silverdale 270. People being mean to Quantuma 271. James Hooton 272. Emmerdale 273. CBX1985 274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse) 275. Other EFL clubs 276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!) I read 31 as Santa for a minute, maybe he should be number 277! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Marvin said: The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image) 147. Alan Nixon 148. Matt Slater 149. Coventry City 150. The sun 151. Jack Marriott 152. The Sex Pistols 153. QPR 154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB 155. Secret squirrels 156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer 157. Mr Magoo 158. Douglas Adams 159. Philip Madoc 160. Will Smith and Chris Rock 161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi 162. Hans Von Dunkelroter 163. The Clash 164. Mr Popodopolous 165. The awkward "preferred bidder" 166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread 167. Strummer 168. India Willoughby 169. Narcissists 170. Reading FC 171. Paul Ince 172. Status Quo 173. Agent Penguin 174. Sam Surridge 175. Joao Carvalho 176. Stoke City 177. Buildabonfire177 178. No Limits Sports Limited 179. 2 Unlimited 180. Golf 181. Obi Wan Kenobi 182. LTLF mods 183. Eddie Yates 184. Peter Ridsdale 185. Guy Moussi 186. RichNFFC's daughter 187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah) 188. Alan Hinton 189. Red flags 190. Nathan Tyson 191. Trents 192. Common sense 193. Acrobat 194. ShakeyRed 195. Other teams getting results 196. Baba Rahman 197. Fulham fans 198. Buildabonfire177's friend 199. Rules 200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre 201. Captain Sinister 202. Paul Merson 203. Domino's Pizza 204. Jeff Hendrick 205. Accrington Stanley 206. West Brom fans 207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form) 208. Mr Blonde 209. Wigan Athletic 210. EFL Rule 14.3.2 211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday) 212. Gene Wilder 213. Ichthyostega 214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times) 215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason) 216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road) 217. Flagman 218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again) 219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry) 220. Rzarecteh 221. Malcolm Ebiowei 222. Ramstrust and BAWT 223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry) 224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton) 225. Erik 226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing 227. Gamble 228. Wred 229. Winnits 230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!) 231. Tiff 232. Brian Potter 233. Demetrius Andrade 234. Thomas Tuchel 235. Death Cab for Cutie 236. Detroit City FC 237. Colleen Rooney 238. Hugh Tomlinson QC 239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd 240. Famous Forestzoe 241. Czeslaw Michniewicz 242. Jeremy Corbyn 243. Rockabilly's flag 244. Augustus 245. Long Eaton Tesco 246. Mrs Beardo7 247. Levi Samuels Colwill 248. Steve Cooper 249. Jonathan Moss 250. Aladdin's lamp 251. EmmersonForest4 252. Transport for London 253. "The gap" 254. Sadiq Khan 255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby) 256. Depeche Mode 257. East Midlands news 258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan) 259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays 260. Glassdoor 261. Manic Street Preachers 262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army 263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode) 264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind) 265. Rafa Nadal 266. The financial police 267. Bury AFC 268. Ramsbottom United 269. Silverdale 270. People being mean to Quantuma 271. James Hooton 272. Emmerdale 273. CBX1985 274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse) 275. Other EFL clubs 276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!) Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up! Edited June 13, 2022 by REDOXO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: Ok. I think we need to be very clear what we mean when we are saying that a club has been expelled from the EFL. It's a pretty serious thing, and getting it wrong will lead to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about the state Derby are in. This is about the black and white (together?) of the Articles of Association of The Football League Limited (and related Regulations). Ownership of a share in the The Football League Limited is not symbolic at all, it is the membership ticket that allows a club to participate in the division it is in, to play matches, and to benefit from prize money and other financial distributions. This is why any potential buyer wants to buy the entity to which the share is issued. If a share was symbolic only then one could simply purchase the badge, the IP, maybe the stadium, and have player contracts assigned from that entity, and then participate in the competitions organised by EFL. But that's not the case because Articles and the Regulations say that a 'Member Club' is a club that is a shareholder (although they use the word Member) of The Football League Limited - so an entity can only be a member if you are a shareholder of that company. Correct. Article 6 is a pretty standard form article prohibiting the transfer of any share without the approval of the Board of the EFL. Kind of. If by 'EFL' you mean The Football League Limited then of course, when promoted from the Championship or relegated from League 2, a club may - under Regulation 4.1 - resign from membership of The Football League Limited at the end of a season. Resigning in any other way activates the indemnity in Regulation 4.2. The actual obligation on The Football League Limited to accept these resignations is in Regulations 7.7, 7.8, and 10 - those conditions are long and dull but essentially The Football League Limited promise to honour promotion and relegation by enabling the issue and repurchase of such shares as are necessary. Yes, as set out in my earlier post. No. Ownership of a share is membership and it's not possible to separate the two concepts. Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) is under Notice that the Board of the The Football League Limited intend to force them to sell their share - the share currently held by Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) - for 5p. That Notice of Withdrawal is referred to in the statement from yesterday "The EFL has today informed the Administrators at Derby County that...it is changing the terms of the suspended Notice of Withdrawal issued when the Club entered into administration in September 2021." and "The suspension of the Notice of Withdrawal of the Club’s share in the EFL is subject to conditions that, in accordance with the League’s insolvency policy, the EFL Board determine...". Both these are consistent with the procedure I set out, as it is set out within the articles of The Football League Limited. This is also clear that a) a Notice has been issued, but b) it is suspended. The Notice is suspended, not the membership. Furthermore, anecdotally Derby County Football Club (in administration) must have still held (and still does hold) a valid membership after entering administration. If it did not, if it were expelled at the point at which it entered administration, then under the articles and Regulations it had no right to compete in any EFL competition since September 2021. Yet it did. The Joint Administrators would each individually almost certainly pass the Owners and Directors test. All three are licensed insolvency practitioners and so, given that registration is onerous as well, are unlikely to have been involved in any Disqualifying Event. The Joint Administrators control a company that holds a share in The Football League Limited. So they do have some power - they control one vote out of the 72 that could feasibly be cast in any EFL vote. As I said, and as the EFL say in their statement, these powers are imposed under the conditions of the Notice of Withdrawal - ie under article 4.8 of the articles of association. "...the EFL has informed the Administrators that there will be a revision to the conditions attached to the suspension and the EFL is now to be made a party to all correspondence and discussions between the Administrators, and any and all potential bidders, with an acknowledgment that the League will be able to negotiate directly in relation to matters concerning the transfer of the share in the EFL." It is pretty clear. It also supports the argument that Derby County Football Club Ltd remains a Member Club as if it was not a Member Club then it would no longer be bound by article 4.8 and so could simply ignore the EFL's changes to the Notice of Withdrawal...because it would already have been withdrawn from the register of shareholders of the Football League Limited. In the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary we have to go with the legal structure set out in the articles and Regulations. I made clear they hadn't been expelled. I do believe I've previously seen that their membership rights are severly curtailed once entering administration. They hold a share, but that's about it. For example I don't believe they are able to vote or stand for election on any EFL board or committee, nor may their administrators. The administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the company they administer, they administer on behalf of that owner, their creditors and debtors. Derby remain entitled to distributions via the EFL but I believe the EFL maintain the right to withhold or distribute should they believe the administrators are not acting in terms of the priorities they should. The statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests they did not believe the administrators are acting as they should. For example, there was nothing in the regulation for the EFL to demand the Administrators run everything past them first, but they have and can. They can amend at will, require no emergency endorsement via other members and that's what they just done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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