Derby County

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, Midred said:

The "show us the money" question is still being asked in north Bristol.

Is it? I didn't think they had any doubts that their Messiah had all the funds they ever needed. It's just that hated council and "lady garden" Lansdown are in a conspiracy to prevent him from spending any.

[chinapig]

24 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Ashley will be a safe pair of hands for Derby, has money, knows football, coped with being an unpopular owner and regardless of what Newcastle fans think, kept them solvent before moving the club on.

Amazed that things have got this far however, these deals always seem to collapse when it comes to the 'show us the money' question, which suggests this is a question that should be asked a lot earlier in the takeover process.

The EFL seems to have been satisfied on proof of funds, though they only gave conditional approval to the deal.

The problem seems to be that Kirchner hasn't transferred the money. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!

[chinapig]

14 minutes ago, Midred said:

Has no one asked Wayne for his in depth opinion?

Yes. He likes Kirchner. In addition, um, er, actually that's it.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

The EFL seems to have been satisfied on proof of funds, though they only gave conditional approval to the deal.

The problem seems to be that Kirchner hasn't transferred the money. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!

Yep they are blaming the efl on twitter for the collapse...... got to keep pointing out its not the efl that loaded them with debt and stole the ground

[East Londoner]

19 minutes ago, Midred said:

Has no one asked Wayne for his in depth opinion?

One of the rumours doing the rounds is he’s the one who paid last months wages 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

One of the rumours doing the rounds is he’s the one who paid last months wages 

Rooney wouldn't pay 19 odd million out of his own pocket, he isnt a mad man,

The PFA are probably covering it, they generally do when clubs get into this state

Edited June 8, 2022 by Monkeh

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Yep they are blaming the efl on twitter for the collapse...... got to keep pointing out its not the efl that loaded them with debt and stole the ground

As expected really. I repeat, they still fail to grasp that the EFL is not Rick Parry it's the 72 clubs.

Derby County signed up to the rules but their fans seem to think they only apply to the other 71.

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Rooney wouldn't pay 19 odd million out of his own pocket, he isnt a mad man,

The PFA are probably covering it, they generally do when clubs get into this state

Their monthly wage bill is £19m?

Reports are saying they were paid by somebody close to the club. We can only guess what that means.

[BTRFTG]

Enough is enough. Derby have failed to meet every deadline set. They've consistently taken all for fools . No other struggling club has ever been given such leeway by the EFL. Accounts still not in the public domain. Their expulsion must be confirmed today.

Goodbye & good riddance.

[Lrrr]

We're only 15 days out from fixtures being published, clubs returning for pre-season in less than 2 weeks, can you imagine say Mansfield/Solihull Moors if Derby were to get expelled from the EFL and they're promoted, all their transfer business up to that point being predicated on being in the wrong division, Solihull particularly have some players that will be of interest to league 2 clubs, imagine if they sold those players and then were retrospectively promoted after?  

Worryingly I can see Derby being allowed to limp on until the season starts at which point the EFL are backed into a corner again.

[CyderInACan]

If the EFL have any cojones, Derby are done and will have to start again on the (Derbyshire) Downs. Bye bye. 

[Sir Geoff]

Didn't Kitchener fail in his bid for Preston due to lack of funds. How was he ever allowed to take Derby this far down the road ?

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Didn't Kitchener fail in his bid for Preston due to lack of funds. How was he ever allowed to take Derby this far down the road ?

Yes, Preston weren't convinced he had the money. They also said he expected them to write his business plan.

[NcnsBcfc]

52 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Their monthly wage bill is £19m?

Reports are saying they were paid by somebody close to the club. We can only guess what that means.

I thought they took an early payment from Liverpool, and waived a sell on clause for a young footballer that had gone there?

That money was supposed to go towards the immediate wages.

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

The bank holiday/inefficiency of US banks excuses seem to have been dropped.

Because it's bollocks. Whilst people do tend to forget about bank holidays, especially random ones that are new, they don't really hold up a share transfer. So long as you can prove funds, prove instructions to a bank to transfer funds, or place funds into a solicitors escrow account with an undertaking to pay, you can go ahead and close a deal and transfer ownership of a company. That is how it is done in practice in order to avoid shit like only being able to close a deal during banking hours. The fact the CK clearly hasn't done this will be spooking Q and Mel and MDS. FFS I don't think I've ever closed a deal inside banking hours!

[Silvio Dante]

Just a question - does anyone know what the “golden share” date is? If I remember rightly with Bury, the EFL were withholding the golden share and hence membership unless funding could be evidenced to commence/complete the new season. With fixtures two weeks away and the season start in less than two months the timescale for this assurance for Derby is very light. 

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Didn't Kitchener fail in his bid for Preston due to lack of funds. How was he ever allowed to take Derby this far down the road ?

No, no, no….Preston wanted too much.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Their monthly wage bill is £19m?

Reports are saying they were paid by somebody close to the club. We can only guess what that means.

I'm basis it on ours and a bit more,

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

We're only 15 days out from fixtures being published, clubs returning for pre-season in less than 2 weeks, can you imagine say Mansfield/Solihull Moors if Derby were to get expelled from the EFL and they're promoted, all their transfer business up to that point being predicated on being in the wrong division, Solihull particularly have some players that will be of interest to league 2 clubs, imagine if they sold those players and then were retrospectively promoted after?  

Worryingly I can see Derby being allowed to limp on until the season starts at which point the EFL are backed into a corner again.

A club won't be promotes, league one will run with 23 clubs and 3 relegation places instead of 4

[REDOXO]

45 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Didn't Kitchener fail in his bid for Preston due to lack of funds. How was he ever allowed to take Derby this far down the road ?

I don’t know if people remember, but about 25 years ago a 19 year old was about to buy Aldershot. On the day of the transfer there were no funds and Aldershot collapsed. 
 

Seems very similar. Walter Mitty springs to mind!

[CyderInACan]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I don’t know if people remember, but about 25 years ago a 19 year old was about to buy Aldershot. On the day of the transfer there were no funds and Aldershot collapsed. 
 

Seems very similar. Walter Mitty springs to mind!

https://taleoftwohalves.uk/featured/not-run-football-club-spencer-day-story

[downendcity]

You ask how much I need you, must I explain?
I need you, oh my Derby, like roses need rain.
You ask how long it'll take for the deal to go through.
Until the twelfth of never - that's imminent you know.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

A club won't be promotes, league one will run with 23 clubs and 3 relegation places instead of 4

If a decision was to be made quickly, then options re league structure for next season could be opened up, e.g. offer promotion to x, non-relegation to y, etc.  but would need to be done quickly.

[Lrrr]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If a decision was to be made quickly, then options re league structure for next season could be opened up, e.g. offer promotion to x, non-relegation to y, etc.  but would need to be done quickly.

It'll get messier that's for sure, if all this has been known for a while and sat on then you'd say the EFL should have known they'd have been a club short for the 22/23 season in league one and an extra club would have been promoted/one less relegated to allow for it so either Gillingham or a club in league 2 (Northampton perhaps if it had been an extra automatic sport) will have a case of being in the wrong division.

[BTRFTG]

27 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just a question - does anyone know what the “golden share” date is? If I remember rightly with Bury, the EFL were withholding the golden share and hence membership unless funding could be evidenced to commence/complete the new season. With fixtures two weeks away and the season start in less than two months the timescale for this assurance for Derby is very light. 

Which one? Only consistent thing about deadlines is Derby have missed every single one. It's begining to get easier to spot those EFL regulations Derby haven't breached.

PoF were reporting a few weeks back that post the second extension of CK's exclusivity deadline his consortium had to have everything in place by 31/5. Note there are dozens of other mandatory notifications that must be made either by the end of last season or by end of March (save for those exiting or entering the EFL via promotion/relegation.) Stuff like insurances and ability to fulfill fixtures. Slightly later the retained lists and squads must be notified.

EFL have fudged the whole thing which is why Derby must be expelled. Lest not forget EFL may seek compensation for impairment arising as a result of a club not fulfilling fixtures if they haven't resigned by the previous start of the year. Would they seek to add that to the secured debt mountain should Derby seek to start elsewhere? Nobody's even mentioning HMRC's position and who's picking up that £20m+? Note also they have to have settled 25% of non secured debt prior to exiting administration, rose have a payment schedule to clear 35% within 36 months. That assumes all secured debt is repaid or cancelled. This isn't going to happen and worse, never was.

[Hxj]

Regulation 11.2.3 currently applies as stated by @Monkeh

11.2        Cessation of membership. Following any Club’s cessation of membership of The League for any reason ...

11.2.3    during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season:

(a)           its playing record for the immediately preceding Season shall not be expunged;

(b)           the Division in which it would have played in the next following Season shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs; and

(c)           the number of relegation places from the Division in which the Club would have played in the following Season but for its cessation of membership shall be reduced by:

(i)            the number of Clubs that have ceased to be members in that Division, and

(ii)           the number of Clubs ceasing to be members in any higher Division (if any); and

(d)           the principles of Regulation 11.2.2(b) shall apply in each of the Divisions below that Division.

 

Whether there is time to make any other changes will depend upon lots of people agreeing.

 

[Davefevs]

Just now, Hxj said:

Regulation 11.2.3 currently applies as stated by @Monkeh

11.2        Cessation of membership. Following any Club’s cessation of membership of The League for any reason ...

11.2.3    during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season:

(a)           its playing record for the immediately preceding Season shall not be expunged;

(b)           the Division in which it would have played in the next following Season shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs; and

(c)           the number of relegation places from the Division in which the Club would have played in the following Season but for its cessation of membership shall be reduced by:

(i)            the number of Clubs that have ceased to be members in that Division, and

(ii)           the number of Clubs ceasing to be members in any higher Division (if any); and

(d)           the principles of Regulation 11.2.2(b) shall apply in each of the Divisions below that Division.

 

Whether there is time to make any other changes will depend upon lots of people agreeing.

 

Sorry @Lrrr you were right.  

[chinapig]

I see Talksport trailed an interview with Kirchner but it turned out he refused to do a live or recorded one.

He allegedly told them by phone that Derby fans shouldn't worry and he was off to play golf.

So everything's fine then, phew.

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Hxj said:

Regulation 11.2.3 currently applies as stated by @Monkeh

11.2        Cessation of membership. Following any Club’s cessation of membership of The League for any reason ...

11.2.3    during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season:

(a)           its playing record for the immediately preceding Season shall not be expunged;

(b)           the Division in which it would have played in the next following Season shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs; and

(c)           the number of relegation places from the Division in which the Club would have played in the following Season but for its cessation of membership shall be reduced by:

(i)            the number of Clubs that have ceased to be members in that Division, and

(ii)           the number of Clubs ceasing to be members in any higher Division (if any); and

(d)           the principles of Regulation 11.2.2(b) shall apply in each of the Divisions below that Division.

 

Whether there is time to make any other changes will depend upon lots of people agreeing.

 

Does that mean fans in L1 who've bought STs for next season potentially have a claim for a non-fulfilled fixture against their own club, Derby and/or EFL should Derby fold?

It's this type of impact that demonstrates why this has gone far enough. Derby couldn't give a stuff for other EFL members & supporters.

[chinapig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61729900

"Kirchner has told BBC Sport that he expects the deal to be done today."

Has anybody got a thesaurus? I need a synonym for imminent.