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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I agree with this and the other posts on this page- the only bit I would say is that the Insolvency Policy really could do with more transparency.

The only bits in the public domain tbh are the -12 for entering admin and the limited right of appeal there, the -15 for the 25% or 35%/3 and Football Creditors. Beyond that though it is quite opaque- when Kieran Maguire posted snippets of it in March or April, they were findable nowhere- I looked for them, I did keyword searches- did research for a job at one point or was a part of the role- definitely beyond some basic bits, it seems not to be in the public domain Insolvency Policy wise.

From the point of view of a supporter of an affected club I would suggest the EFL's recent statement tells you all you need to know:

No insolvent Club has an absolute right to continue in membership, and on entering insolvency a Club is  served with a Notice of Withdrawal of the membership (currently suspended). The EFL’s Insolvency Policy  provides guidance on how the EFL will address issues that might arise with a Club in administration. The  aims of the Policy are to try and ensure a continuation of a football Club, the settlement of all football debts  and the satisfaction of creditors. If a buyer cannot be found who can meet the requirements for continued  membership, then the Club may liquidate, and its membership withdrawn. The Policy provides discretion  for the EFL Board as to how to deal with any particular Club and does not cover every eventuality.  

This reserves the right to review and amend the procedures for each individual case in line with the  League’s Articles of Association and Regulations.  

Part of the League’s rationale for requiring the settlement of creditors is to preserve competition integrity.  The Policy, and associated regulations, have been agreed by Clubs and seek to act as a disincentive to  individuals from running Clubs in such a way that they gain a financial advantage over competitors and  subsequently rely on insolvency legislation to compromise the unpaid debts incurred.  

Edited by chinapig
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I’m sending the end is nigh as an EFL club.

Would Ashley or Appleby pick them up (with the stadium) for a small amount and start them in non-league.

Morris owned Pride Park would make a nice Baseball Ground for a U.S. team! 👀

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18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No idea. If it's a short term loan to be paid back by a buyer then in 'normal' companies you might be getting into the territory of shareholders/directors securing loans against their own homes and cars etc. Short term loan, short security - it all goes away when the company exits insolvency. It's desperate measures really, but it happens sometimes when there's a need for it. Alternatively, if they don't want to pay it off when they buy the club then as you say you might get a buyer guaranteeing the loan - but ultimately that's another burden that any buyer is assuming for the pleasure of purchasing a basket case company.

Just to explore the idea of securing against a player's contract. Would a lender really secure a loan against a player contract? If so I think you'd have to a) renew the contract, and b) have the repayment term be less than or at least equal to the contract's length otherwise by the time you get to the end of the loan your security is worthless. It would also basically render the player unsellable. It's an incredibly high risk security.

No idea if that is even allowed by the EFL btw. Would they allow a club to be funded by way of a loan secured against a personal asset - I'd hope not tbf.

So possibly starting 2022/23 with -18, only 3 more than they got deducted last season. They'd be relegated again almost instantly. Doubt the bookies would even offer odds.

Ultimately though unless something improves drastically in terms of the squad, I don't see how the EFL can sanction them starting the season. No players, and no money to pay travel costs, hotel costs etc. The likelihood of them completing 2022/23 is looking very slim in their current situation.

Thanks, yes of course, the value of a player is actually the value of their contract. Or is it their registration? A pedantic distinction perhaps.

Either way it's surely not something that can be used as security.

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I think that this is the charge under which Quantuma is drawing:

image.png.5c38d9309ba5843e1dfe9d7a039fc303.png

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00049139/charges/TpkBicKPVsGIALm1McZp3HHM5mQ

PDF at link below:

image.png.c0f8b2190606af676c1d9f1974581551.png

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/rvHiOXxNmcqHYgVQeXZd89fd4QVMYAHLvZ7UT4k8EG0/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3KCWGUAUN%2F20220620%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220620T142048Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEBUaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDDBkXxxQtf8CxVGWFdf0jyYXt0D1zCEsBUZLmO%2FQ548wIhAMX6%2BnujvCx3CvaMblavQSqMpU109wigAJ7LTDN8bJ3yKtMECC4QBBoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgwwV2LkjL5FcofY0ysqsASiUwlrN9BFZODUVV9EoeAYX4ZxvfbbCnKVIIZUjYvIQnYfWYB1xXaYvtoxZzBgB6b5H3OwlGKWNsls%2BKkWfyCOLqoUQ9Xw8ucuU6bsvoh7bPyfP%2Flei1v3np5lh%2FPQaVMfREQm22ic4BI6PHD7e422wCyZp2tZ4LDF0VynVfuVn8I3ZweAj9aeSzlyDIjpwPrSgydEYgfIP1sm6fNSRGs6cbR3c4c2XTV9VB3W8UE743AH91gJ8BuaAdGtFWuV8dZNkzWE%2FQ%2FOzhTgYf7dhhhgZzKQWdNqbh4G8WZCxIYchcyUu4G6Mq%2BRhMkKFHb30ySOZqfAWEWQOonM7gnwNv7vA9GVqOAhML1ORpBxZQ0YyrjPh0o5yWUwY2MytDjbDx9Vqbe6QlaYM9zV4B22QtUP0wRshW2vjiwoSHqbyNkRkggyMNHUxOqhpNoehjlw5dMYbECiUA%2Fowt%2Bc%2FFjDwkOBVe8EP6TEN77k%2F9PGe4kg2mgHoHFJ34eKQIjGZ3M4%2BL3xe92hkaZhr49VS8dIckjrUH7RirtbEhCU05dgJgPBna%2BoE0SbkcvxrTR%2Bw7ORnaxFtR7oprKvMdTPu7h6tuHKpwjKzH8NWu%2F5uNubrrFv%2FSz3OP2yzyJef7u0HxO%2BARSs2YNdDnfiZX1ccaMR3keFtkM6Kj0Wt0qtQpKDLzXME%2BHMw95xOa4kfABIBRK7nPlS%2BXFt0VICge%2B5%2F1Qyq6si2xWw0vls86wyc5FJdjCNoDDe1cGVBjqoAf08odyegGyPScUGlwxM2mXtKeyxcCUIOPTvOgA6WR08JjUWcPiZ0HxG9NQsELcUnfUkSz5nfCuUDOt7IvHmkt5R2%2BA5kHjP3uEBNXQq%2Bq4nJeN%2FjeD5FRErn%2FVGJ939CPeAWZtxbYf2llTNpMjXcIdPxgGBW0%2BZdSNm3uDQ%2FwkexryEmCkntCHDVz5qEsLbJ5zUgOF%2FTCHe4lZp7a7coc6qgrdTtbfmGg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"00049139_mr01_2021-11-30.pdf"&X-Amz-Signature=41a95a312704a9c93e854aaa2da4b1eac79cce7110a41836c8306b86b1061bce

 

MSD UK Holdings was incorporated in June 2020 to lend money to football clubs using Cayman Island funds; presumably at very high rates of interest such as the loans Nick Higgs took out for Rovers.

image.png.76c093fda71c48910f3ad8d12cea8c4d.png

They have $200m of loans outstanding at the year end.

And charge a decent rate of interest.

image.png.e191fd6f216857a3cacd4975f5915350.png

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12701276/filing-history

Accounts pdf:

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/3uEP2sEFHcOeSsIY0MQntDjNkXdzrk30KUNI9uw5-QQ/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3KCWGUAUN%2F20220620%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220620T142321Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEBUaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDDBkXxxQtf8CxVGWFdf0jyYXt0D1zCEsBUZLmO%2FQ548wIhAMX6%2BnujvCx3CvaMblavQSqMpU109wigAJ7LTDN8bJ3yKtMECC4QBBoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgwwV2LkjL5FcofY0ysqsASiUwlrN9BFZODUVV9EoeAYX4ZxvfbbCnKVIIZUjYvIQnYfWYB1xXaYvtoxZzBgB6b5H3OwlGKWNsls%2BKkWfyCOLqoUQ9Xw8ucuU6bsvoh7bPyfP%2Flei1v3np5lh%2FPQaVMfREQm22ic4BI6PHD7e422wCyZp2tZ4LDF0VynVfuVn8I3ZweAj9aeSzlyDIjpwPrSgydEYgfIP1sm6fNSRGs6cbR3c4c2XTV9VB3W8UE743AH91gJ8BuaAdGtFWuV8dZNkzWE%2FQ%2FOzhTgYf7dhhhgZzKQWdNqbh4G8WZCxIYchcyUu4G6Mq%2BRhMkKFHb30ySOZqfAWEWQOonM7gnwNv7vA9GVqOAhML1ORpBxZQ0YyrjPh0o5yWUwY2MytDjbDx9Vqbe6QlaYM9zV4B22QtUP0wRshW2vjiwoSHqbyNkRkggyMNHUxOqhpNoehjlw5dMYbECiUA%2Fowt%2Bc%2FFjDwkOBVe8EP6TEN77k%2F9PGe4kg2mgHoHFJ34eKQIjGZ3M4%2BL3xe92hkaZhr49VS8dIckjrUH7RirtbEhCU05dgJgPBna%2BoE0SbkcvxrTR%2Bw7ORnaxFtR7oprKvMdTPu7h6tuHKpwjKzH8NWu%2F5uNubrrFv%2FSz3OP2yzyJef7u0HxO%2BARSs2YNdDnfiZX1ccaMR3keFtkM6Kj0Wt0qtQpKDLzXME%2BHMw95xOa4kfABIBRK7nPlS%2BXFt0VICge%2B5%2F1Qyq6si2xWw0vls86wyc5FJdjCNoDDe1cGVBjqoAf08odyegGyPScUGlwxM2mXtKeyxcCUIOPTvOgA6WR08JjUWcPiZ0HxG9NQsELcUnfUkSz5nfCuUDOt7IvHmkt5R2%2BA5kHjP3uEBNXQq%2Bq4nJeN%2FjeD5FRErn%2FVGJ939CPeAWZtxbYf2llTNpMjXcIdPxgGBW0%2BZdSNm3uDQ%2FwkexryEmCkntCHDVz5qEsLbJ5zUgOF%2FTCHe4lZp7a7coc6qgrdTtbfmGg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"companies_house_document.pdf"&X-Amz-Signature=55eaf191db16bae4b0f73114d678aa70f27b1333b7408419f2e9777cc6bcb782

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In terms of players their Retained list actually seems to be fuller than the reported 5.

Granted it is fastracking of youth, they also appear to have somehow retained Byrne and Buchanan through contractual classes or options for another year. Selling some players and fast tracking youth could at least keep the lights on.

Although they have not actually published a retained list on their website or similar which is unique among clubs, something is at least findable on the EFL website.

(o) means contract offered, under 24 I think but player expiring in the summer.

image.thumb.png.c6ad95a0317a0c5fc4b04f17115deb49.png

Rather more shockingly, they apparently have offers in for Barkhuizen and a Rotherham defender- how on earth can that be allowed??

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I think that this is the charge under which Quantuma is drawing:

image.png.5c38d9309ba5843e1dfe9d7a039fc303.png

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00049139/charges/TpkBicKPVsGIALm1McZp3HHM5mQ

PDF at link below:

image.png.c0f8b2190606af676c1d9f1974581551.png

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/rvHiOXxNmcqHYgVQeXZd89fd4QVMYAHLvZ7UT4k8EG0/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3KCWGUAUN%2F20220620%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220620T142048Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEBUaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDDBkXxxQtf8CxVGWFdf0jyYXt0D1zCEsBUZLmO%2FQ548wIhAMX6%2BnujvCx3CvaMblavQSqMpU109wigAJ7LTDN8bJ3yKtMECC4QBBoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgwwV2LkjL5FcofY0ysqsASiUwlrN9BFZODUVV9EoeAYX4ZxvfbbCnKVIIZUjYvIQnYfWYB1xXaYvtoxZzBgB6b5H3OwlGKWNsls%2BKkWfyCOLqoUQ9Xw8ucuU6bsvoh7bPyfP%2Flei1v3np5lh%2FPQaVMfREQm22ic4BI6PHD7e422wCyZp2tZ4LDF0VynVfuVn8I3ZweAj9aeSzlyDIjpwPrSgydEYgfIP1sm6fNSRGs6cbR3c4c2XTV9VB3W8UE743AH91gJ8BuaAdGtFWuV8dZNkzWE%2FQ%2FOzhTgYf7dhhhgZzKQWdNqbh4G8WZCxIYchcyUu4G6Mq%2BRhMkKFHb30ySOZqfAWEWQOonM7gnwNv7vA9GVqOAhML1ORpBxZQ0YyrjPh0o5yWUwY2MytDjbDx9Vqbe6QlaYM9zV4B22QtUP0wRshW2vjiwoSHqbyNkRkggyMNHUxOqhpNoehjlw5dMYbECiUA%2Fowt%2Bc%2FFjDwkOBVe8EP6TEN77k%2F9PGe4kg2mgHoHFJ34eKQIjGZ3M4%2BL3xe92hkaZhr49VS8dIckjrUH7RirtbEhCU05dgJgPBna%2BoE0SbkcvxrTR%2Bw7ORnaxFtR7oprKvMdTPu7h6tuHKpwjKzH8NWu%2F5uNubrrFv%2FSz3OP2yzyJef7u0HxO%2BARSs2YNdDnfiZX1ccaMR3keFtkM6Kj0Wt0qtQpKDLzXME%2BHMw95xOa4kfABIBRK7nPlS%2BXFt0VICge%2B5%2F1Qyq6si2xWw0vls86wyc5FJdjCNoDDe1cGVBjqoAf08odyegGyPScUGlwxM2mXtKeyxcCUIOPTvOgA6WR08JjUWcPiZ0HxG9NQsELcUnfUkSz5nfCuUDOt7IvHmkt5R2%2BA5kHjP3uEBNXQq%2Bq4nJeN%2FjeD5FRErn%2FVGJ939CPeAWZtxbYf2llTNpMjXcIdPxgGBW0%2BZdSNm3uDQ%2FwkexryEmCkntCHDVz5qEsLbJ5zUgOF%2FTCHe4lZp7a7coc6qgrdTtbfmGg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"00049139_mr01_2021-11-30.pdf"&X-Amz-Signature=41a95a312704a9c93e854aaa2da4b1eac79cce7110a41836c8306b86b1061bce

 

MSD UK Holdings was incorporated in June 2020 to lend money to football clubs using Cayman Island funds; presumably at very high rates of interest such as the loans Nick Higgs took out for Rovers.

image.png.76c093fda71c48910f3ad8d12cea8c4d.png

They have $200m of loans outstanding at the year end.

And charge a decent rate of interest.

image.png.e191fd6f216857a3cacd4975f5915350.png

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12701276/filing-history

Accounts pdf:

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/3uEP2sEFHcOeSsIY0MQntDjNkXdzrk30KUNI9uw5-QQ/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3KCWGUAUN%2F20220620%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220620T142321Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEBUaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDDBkXxxQtf8CxVGWFdf0jyYXt0D1zCEsBUZLmO%2FQ548wIhAMX6%2BnujvCx3CvaMblavQSqMpU109wigAJ7LTDN8bJ3yKtMECC4QBBoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgwwV2LkjL5FcofY0ysqsASiUwlrN9BFZODUVV9EoeAYX4ZxvfbbCnKVIIZUjYvIQnYfWYB1xXaYvtoxZzBgB6b5H3OwlGKWNsls%2BKkWfyCOLqoUQ9Xw8ucuU6bsvoh7bPyfP%2Flei1v3np5lh%2FPQaVMfREQm22ic4BI6PHD7e422wCyZp2tZ4LDF0VynVfuVn8I3ZweAj9aeSzlyDIjpwPrSgydEYgfIP1sm6fNSRGs6cbR3c4c2XTV9VB3W8UE743AH91gJ8BuaAdGtFWuV8dZNkzWE%2FQ%2FOzhTgYf7dhhhgZzKQWdNqbh4G8WZCxIYchcyUu4G6Mq%2BRhMkKFHb30ySOZqfAWEWQOonM7gnwNv7vA9GVqOAhML1ORpBxZQ0YyrjPh0o5yWUwY2MytDjbDx9Vqbe6QlaYM9zV4B22QtUP0wRshW2vjiwoSHqbyNkRkggyMNHUxOqhpNoehjlw5dMYbECiUA%2Fowt%2Bc%2FFjDwkOBVe8EP6TEN77k%2F9PGe4kg2mgHoHFJ34eKQIjGZ3M4%2BL3xe92hkaZhr49VS8dIckjrUH7RirtbEhCU05dgJgPBna%2BoE0SbkcvxrTR%2Bw7ORnaxFtR7oprKvMdTPu7h6tuHKpwjKzH8NWu%2F5uNubrrFv%2FSz3OP2yzyJef7u0HxO%2BARSs2YNdDnfiZX1ccaMR3keFtkM6Kj0Wt0qtQpKDLzXME%2BHMw95xOa4kfABIBRK7nPlS%2BXFt0VICge%2B5%2F1Qyq6si2xWw0vls86wyc5FJdjCNoDDe1cGVBjqoAf08odyegGyPScUGlwxM2mXtKeyxcCUIOPTvOgA6WR08JjUWcPiZ0HxG9NQsELcUnfUkSz5nfCuUDOt7IvHmkt5R2%2BA5kHjP3uEBNXQq%2Bq4nJeN%2FjeD5FRErn%2FVGJ939CPeAWZtxbYf2llTNpMjXcIdPxgGBW0%2BZdSNm3uDQ%2FwkexryEmCkntCHDVz5qEsLbJ5zUgOF%2FTCHe4lZp7a7coc6qgrdTtbfmGg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"companies_house_document.pdf"&X-Amz-Signature=55eaf191db16bae4b0f73114d678aa70f27b1333b7408419f2e9777cc6bcb782

Thanks- they'd probably add it to that then? Secured against Training Ground.

Which in itself raises a q as my understanding is that while Derby own the buildings for the Training Ground,, Academy etc the land is on a long term lease owned by someone else- local land owners perhaps?? How would that impact on security or enforceability.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In terms of players their Retained list actually seems to be fuller than the reported 5.

Granted it is fastracking of youth, they also appear to have somehow retained Byrne and Buchanan through contractual classes or options for another year. Selling some players and fast tracking youth could at least keep the lights on.

Although they have not actually published a retained list on their website or similar which is unique among clubs, something is at least findable on the EFL website.

(o) means contract offered, under 24 I think but player expiring in the summer.

image.thumb.png.c6ad95a0317a0c5fc4b04f17115deb49.png

Rather more shockingly, they apparently have offers in for Barkhuizen and a Rotherham defender- how on earth can that be allowed??

Buchanan and his agent are disputing that his option has been exercised.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Buchanan and his agent are disputing that his option has been exercised.

Thanks. I'd also add Werder Bremen are keen or have been keen on him and as we know pre-contract options can be put in place from January for foreign clubs over here and vice versa with us and foreign clubs...could a pre-contract from a patently solvent club trump some kind of option that may or may not have been exercised from one who have not released accounts for 3 years and are in admin? Seems like a question for FIFA's transfer committee or something.

Does seem strange tbh that options can be triggered or exercised when under a multi layered Embargo including administration. Only justification I can see is if the player is to be quickly sold the following season to help with funding,

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Buchanan and his agent are disputing that his option has been exercised.

I understand that they have seen an opportunity to come to an advantageous settlement given the dire need for cash.

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Just now, Davefevs said:

Buchanan and his agent are disputing that his option has been exercised.

Yet surely Rooney (and indeed Derby fans) said all the players were desperate to stay at the club? Anybody would think it was a sinking ship.😉

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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks. I'd also add Werder Bremen are keen or have been keen on him and as we know pre-contract options can be put in place from January for foreign clubs over here and vice versa with us and foreign clubs...could a pre-contract from a patently solvent club trump some kind of option that may or may not have been exercised from one who have not released accounts for 3 years and are in admin? Seems like a question for FIFA's transfer committee or something.

Does seem strange tbh that options can be triggered or exercised when under a multi layered Embargo including administration. Only justification I can see is if the player is to be quickly sold the following season to help with funding,

You can re-contract club developed players within the limits of the embargo.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Signed a pre-contract….which of course may never make it out the drawer!!!  But, yes, expect that to happen on 1/7.

So the 8 (O)'s might disappear quickly after the 1st July then.

I wonder how many of the remaining players will exercise their right to terminate their contracts if they don't get paid again? A few there that will have no problems finding new clubs.

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On 18/06/2022 at 13:37, chinapig said:

Looks like there could be a joint bid to stop Ashley. Also the EFL is prepared to wait  beyond Thursday when the fixtures are published. Which Derby fans will find a way of claiming is all part of the conspiracy against them no doubt.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/derby-takeover-latest-mike-ashley-27267532

Radio Derby are now reporting that this is not true and that Appleby is "continuing to launch his own pursuit of a deal for the Rams..." Whatever that means.

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56 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks- they'd probably add it to that then? Secured against Training Ground.

Which in itself raises a q as my understanding is that while Derby own the buildings for the Training Ground,, Academy etc the land is on a long term lease owned by someone else- local land owners perhaps?? How would that impact on security or enforceability.

 

The investment that they have made there in the training ground, faclities and football centre suggests that the land is held on a very long lease.

I have seen leases of 999 years but I'm not suggesting that!  Maybe 75 - 100 years.  Which would mean that it had decent value for a long time to come.

These are the two relevant deeds if anyone has a Land Registry account.

image.png.a28d0555ad64ee510388ebd561f3513d.png

 

Edit: best information that I could find:

Q) You said there is a long lease on Moor Farm [the training ground]. A long lease from whom, who technically owns the Moor Farm Training Ground?

Carl Jackson: It is a local landed family and we will be engaging with those people very shortly.

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-efl-administrators-points-5990668

 

Edited by Eddie Hitler
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Let's cut the rubbish on bids.

There are none.

Any potential discussions are at a number at a point where the -15 would be a good outcome.

There is a big salary liability in 10 days, bigger than normal as there are end of contract and end of year bonuses.

There is also a bigger than normal PAYE/NIC liability on 22 July, not only the tax/NIC on the enhanced June pay, but also the NIC liability on the taxable benefits provided which are generally vast due to Agents Fees and the like.

Currently there is no cash to pay any of the above.

Most of the established first team players are out looking for new deals elsewhere.  Yes they are desperate to stay, but a new championship contract will be sadly more appealing, and unfortunately they have liabilities and WAGs and kids to pay for ...

If and only if Derby can raise the funds to pay for the above, in reality they will have too few players to compete, as I have said before sadly either a quick short painless death or a long slow painful one.

Edited by Hxj
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12 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The investment that they have made there in the training ground, faclities and football centre suggests that the land is held on a very long lease.

I have seen leases of 999 years but I'm not suggesting that!  Maybe 75 - 100 years.  Which would mean that it had decent value for a long time to come.

These are the two relevant deeds if anyone has a Land Registry account.

image.png.a28d0555ad64ee510388ebd561f3513d.png

 

Edit: best information that I could find:

Q) You said there is a long lease on Moor Farm [the training ground]. A long lease from whom, who technically owns the Moor Farm Training Ground?

Carl Jackson: It is a local landed family and we will be engaging with those people very shortly.

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-efl-administrators-points-5990668

 

Thanks. Yes looks a long lease.

Wondering how that works then- seems messy that?? Like the whole thing really- but if you have loaned cash secured against a property owned by an entity but the land it stands on is a long lease...what a mess!

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They're going to go aren't they?

Sad to see it happen to any club but flouting the rules etc etc.

The two things people can't avoid in life, are death and taxes, it seems Derby have been avoiding one which may well end up with the other.

Sad but they should be treated as Bury were IMHO.

Edited by Ska Junkie
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5 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Most of the established first team players are out looking for new deals elsewhere.  Yes they are desperate to stay, but a new championship contract will be sadly more appealing, and unfortunately they have liabilities and WAGs and kids to pay for ...

Curtis Davis said recently that if he gets an offer from a Championship club he would have to take it.

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1 minute ago, 2015 said:

If Derby go under that will be really sad because at the end of the day its the fans who lose out and imagine if it was us

I totally agree 2015. It seems the admins have tried so many different approaches and passed so many deadlines without anything concrete. That spells a very unfortunate end for DCFC to me. 

Insisting on such as Ashley is demanding just isn't going to happen so I hope there's a white knight around to save them at the last minute but I fear they would have surfaced by now.

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20 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Let's cut the rubbish on bids.

There are none.

Any potential discussions are at a number at a point where the -15 would be a good outcome.

There is a big salary liability in 10 days, bigger than normal as there are end of contract and end of year bonuses.

There is also a bigger than normal PAYE/NIC liability on 22 July, not only the tax/NIC on the enhanced June pay, but also the NIC liability on the taxable benefits provided which are generally vast due to Agents Fees and the like.

Currently there is no cash to pay any of the above.

Most of the established first team players are out looking for new deals elsewhere.  Yes they are desperate to stay, but a new championship contract will be sadly more appealing, and unfortunately they have liabilities and WAGs and kids to pay for ...

If and only if Derby can raise the funds to pay for the above, in reality they will have too few players to compete, as I have said before sadly either a quick short painless death or a long slow painful one.

Seems the circus might roll on? Using loans to sign players when no accounts in 3 years in the public domain, an HMRC debt of £36m as well as all the other issues- it is an interesting look not least for the credibility of the League!

Apologies- someone else already posted it.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Also I'm pretty sure they are only able to sign free players,

And with what's going on who in their right mind will move there with the possibility of not actually getting paid or even a guarantee of starting the season

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Just now, Monkeh said:

Also I'm pretty sure they are only able to sign free players,

And with what's going on who in their right mind will move there with the possibility of not actually getting paid or even a guarantee of starting the season

Barkhuizen and a Rotherham defender might have deals lined up although could be Twitter chat- yes it would be frees, in theory could they circumvent yet further and have Everton and Man Utd loan them some young players at no cost given the Rooney connection.

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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Also I'm pretty sure they are only able to sign free players,

And with what's going on who in their right mind will move there with the possibility of not actually getting paid or even a guarantee of starting the season

A Derby supporting colleague of mine says that they have a total of 5 (FIVE) first team players currently under contract.

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7 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

A Derby supporting colleague of mine says that they have a total of 5 (FIVE) first team players currently under contract.

Add Byrne and Buchanan to that given reported contract options (although Buchanan or his reps are disputing this)- but the Retained List shows a number of scholars or young players theoretically available to play too- so no need for new signings while in admin!

Suggested in that BBC article too that rules need to be changed to allow them to sign players too. A good compromise might be get all of your financials in to the EFL up to last season- all done in the correct format- and we can discuss.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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