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1 hour ago, Hxj said:

Out with the old and in with the new.

Looking at the Companies House filings over the last few days it is now possible to say that:

1.  Clowes Developments (UK) Limited now directly owns the stadium owning company Gellaw 202 Newco Ltd

2.  Clowes Developments (UK) Limited incorporated a new subsidiary Totem Newco Limited which acquired the football club assets or the company which acquired the football club assets

So looks as if the club and stadium remain separated.

Some of the figures being banded around don't make sense from the accounts.

How much did they pay for the stadium?

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ha I said I wouldn't quote DCFCFans anymore but sometimes you just gotta...

YaniP- he appears to have been playing "pass the brain cell" or lost it, dropped it or something- forgotten his meds I expect- for him to talk about idiocy or morons given the cognitive dissonance on that site in some time, the conspiracy theory whining really is funny.

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Actual cogent post not that I agree with all of it from Gee Screamer though, has he remembered to take his tablets today or something- or maybe he's laying off the booze for a change. Yes if Derby had paid their creditors then we wouldn't be having this discussion- the P&S/FFP bit would have been a fail either IRL or likely to 2020/21.

As for Gibson and Couhig, the EFL won a hard won victory and that gave those two the platform to make their claim in a sense.

The stupid thing is had Mel not lost patience and accepted the -9 points, they’d have stayed up, they’d have probably kept Rooney, Ebosele, Ebiowei, Plange, and all the other young diamonds they had, plus a few others. But his reaction to the impending likelihood of -9 was to think they were likely to go down, so he pressed the panic button and went the whole hog into admin for another -12.

But Morris knew he’d already bought himself some security with the stadium being separated.  But he complicated the sale of the club as a result, and made it less attractive as a Lg1 club rather than a Champ club fighting to stay up.  Rooney actually did a great job in giving optimism that even with -21 he’d give it a go.

Morris has gotten out of this lightly, how Derby fans haven’t turned up at his residence with pitchforks baying for his blood I don’t know.

So now the new owner will start in Lg1, under a business plan, details we don’t know of yet and a squad of players that are likely to be chased as “of professional standing” and taking up many of the 23 man squad places.  We are already hearing talks of Conor Hourihane signing…on what wages, over what term (1yr max?)…hopefully that is just media talk.

Looking forward to seeing the actual squad / recruitment position clarified.

 

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The stupid thing is had Mel not lost patience and accepted the -9 points, they’d have stayed up, they’d have probably kept Rooney, Ebosele, Ebiowei, Plange, and all the other young diamonds they had, plus a few others. But his reaction to the impending likelihood of -9 was to think they were likely to go down, so he pressed the panic button and went the whole hog into admin for another -12.

But Morris knew he’d already bought himself some security with the stadium being separated.  But he complicated the sale of the club as a result, and made it less attractive as a Lg1 club rather than a Champ club fighting to stay up.  Rooney actually did a great job in giving optimism that even with -21 he’d give it a go.

Morris has gotten out of this lightly, how Derby fans haven’t turned up at his residence with pitchforks baying for his blood I don’t know.

So now the new owner will start in Lg1, under a business plan, details we don’t know of yet and a squad of players that are likely to be chased as “of professional standing” and taking up many of the 23 man squad places.  We are already hearing talks of Conor Hourihane signing…on what wages, over what term (1yr max?)…hopefully that is just media talk.

Looking forward to seeing the actual squad / recruitment position clarified.

 

Had Morris not put the club into administration they may indeed have raised a fair bit of cash from selling players. Trouble is that would have to have been used to pay off the debts he had deliberately run up and he had no intention of doing that. Nor would Derby fans have accepted it.

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51 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

How much did they pay for the stadium?

The best guess is that Clowes Development £1 for the stadium company and took on £22 million in debt. 

The figures currently don't make a huge amount of sense, but will look at further.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The stupid thing is had Mel not lost patience and accepted the -9 points, they’d have stayed up, they’d have probably kept Rooney, Ebosele, Ebiowei, Plange, and all the other young diamonds they had, plus a few others. But his reaction to the impending likelihood of -9 was to think they were likely to go down, so he pressed the panic button and went the whole hog into admin for another -12.

But Morris knew he’d already bought himself some security with the stadium being separated.  But he complicated the sale of the club as a result, and made it less attractive as a Lg1 club rather than a Champ club fighting to stay up.  Rooney actually did a great job in giving optimism that even with -21 he’d give it a go.

Morris has gotten out of this lightly, how Derby fans haven’t turned up at his residence with pitchforks baying for his blood I don’t know.

So now the new owner will start in Lg1, under a business plan, details we don’t know of yet and a squad of players that are likely to be chased as “of professional standing” and taking up many of the 23 man squad places.  We are already hearing talks of Conor Hourihane signing…on what wages, over what term (1yr max?)…hopefully that is just media talk.

Looking forward to seeing the actual squad / recruitment position clarified.

 

Well this is it. Could have arranged or offered some kind of multi-year payment plan, perhaps with a portion of cash from the club as a partial guarantee each year, ring-fenced, taken the P&S deduction and Business Plan and stayed up as you say. Plenty left in Jan 2022, young diamonds for sure.

Agreed- excellent job and it looked on at various stages.

Agreed- he really has and another thing to mention is that in the mini Parliamentary debate on Derby this week- a few MPs queried the Sports Minister- fairly sure the name "Mel Morris" didn't cross their collective lips once. He is ultimately to blame- on varying levels below but he is ultimately to blame...would have to re-read it.

I do hope the "Professional Standing" reg is still applicable- certainly should be or "Permitted Players" at minimum as per the Business Plan for Reading and to a lesser extent Derby last season. Chester, Hourihane, Barkhuizen and Mendez-Laing all linked...how many of them if any would fit a Business Plan that is suitable for the circs I don't know- certainly not Hourihane and perhaps 2 of the others? Free agents though they are, unsure any seem appropriate.

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6 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Really surprised how thick some of the Derby mob are on this. 

You are right but reading some of the takes since the charges in Jan 2020, perhaps as far back as the stadium sale was announced in April 2019 and varied stages in between...should we be?

The word some is an important one here though- I suppose many clubs have an outsized minority who are vocal- Clowes probably will do them some good based on bits I've read, should be a different profile of target etc for a while.

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:laugh: Some on the Derby forum- DCFC (Dopey Cockeyed Fuckwitted Clowns) Fans complaining about some vitriol on here is rich considering some of the shite and tirade of abuse at the EFL and a range of others on their site for the last 2.5 years. 🤡

The most cretinous and objectionable fans at this level without a doubt as far as these matters go, for consistent Championship clubs...maybe I'll go to Derby v Wycombe away next season if it doesn't clash, combine it with a trip up North to see Northern mate.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Off and running….

or maybe not.

530EEDAF-BF81-4785-B0EE-A2E5B240341F.thumb.jpeg.5c3df9fce4a33d2bfaf33092faba3657.jpeg

Surely they won’t get their opportunity to register a player wrong!!

Free transfer but goes back to a point I made previously is I thought there were levelling up measures against clubs who have gained an advantage over peers by entering administration. Anybody know how these are calculated as I fear they're made up on the fly?

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20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Free transfer but goes back to a point I made previously is I thought there were levelling up measures against clubs who have gained an advantage over peers by entering administration. Anybody know how these are calculated as I fear they're made up on the fly?

I know going back some years when Bolton were first getting into trouble and placed under embargo, the limit for new signings was £600k p.a. (£12k p.w) which seemed a lot to me.

Last year we heard Reading were restricted to £8.5k p.w.  Mr P will confirm if I got that wrong.

But that is Champ, not sure if Lg1 restrictions are the same or not.

Until we read the lower level details it’s very hard to know whether they’ve gained an advantage or not.

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54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know going back some years when Bolton were first getting into trouble and placed under embargo, the limit for new signings was £600k p.a. (£12k p.w) which seemed a lot to me.

Last year we heard Reading were restricted to £8.5k p.w.  Mr P will confirm if I got that wrong.

But that is Champ, not sure if Lg1 restrictions are the same or not.

Until we read the lower level details it’s very hard to know whether they’ve gained an advantage or not.

I thought if it was they gained £x advantage over the others then this was discounted at such rate such as a nominal value was assumed against transfers or period of time. Never sure how parity was supposedly endured. 

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

:laugh: Some on the Derby forum- DCFC (Dopey Cockeyed Fuckwitted Clowns) Fans complaining about some vitriol on here is rich considering some of the shite and tirade of abuse at the EFL and a range of others on their site for the last 2.5 years. 🤡

The most cretinous and objectionable fans at this level without a doubt as far as these matters go, for consistent Championship clubs...maybe I'll go to Derby v Wycombe away next season if it doesn't clash, combine it with a trip up North to see Northern mate.

And I thought they got relegated! 

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May or may not be a futile exercise but saw this on another forum- the Wycombe one.

foi.request@hmrc.gov.uk

Given an overriding public interest in these troubled times, I doubt it gets anywhere but a mass email campaign may not be the worst thing but probably pie in the sky that it would occur. Companies get wound up over far smaller HMRC debts.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

All opposing managers should pin this up on the wall! Doesn't even make sense either as Middlesbrough and likely Wycombe will be getting or will have received some kinda compensation, Forest are PL.

They don`t really do humility do they? Nothing would give me greater pleasure than a League One bottom three of Derby, Ipswich and one club that shall not be named.

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6 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

They don`t really do humility do they? Nothing would give me greater pleasure than a League One bottom three of Derby, Ipswich and one club that shall not be named.

They really don't. Yep, a trip to League 2 for that lot would be well deserved- 4 go down though, any preference for the last?

I'll be honest I moaned about Sheffield Wednesday in 2019 and 2020 and yes they got their -6 but Derby- wow. Sheffield Wednesday did overspend and did go down as a result of said -6 which saw justice done- but the social media by their fans is much more preferable than Derby last couple of years.

I was not unhappy when Sheffield Wednesday went down in 2020/21 as the -6 provided decisive- but in hindsight Derby over them any time!

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They really don't. Yep, a trip to League 2 for that lot would be well deserved- 4 go down though, any preference for the last?

I'll be honest I moaned about Sheffield Wednesday in 2019 and 2020 and yes they got their -6 but Derby- wow. Sheffield Wednesday did overspend and did go down as a result of said -6 which saw justice done- but the social media by their fans is much more preferable than Derby last couple of years.

I saw not unhappy when Sheffield Wednesday went down in 2020/21 but in hindsight Derby over them any time!

I didn't see Sheff Wed fans coming up with special pleading, conspiracy thinking and the like. Reading fans accepted that their club got what it deserved.

Derby fans meanwhile have an odd mix of believing both that they are too important for the rules to apply to them and a poor innocent little club being victimised by all and sundry.

Now they've signed a couple of players they are predictably in Gas style piss the league mode. Mind you by the Rooney rule of thumb they still need to sign another 38!

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15 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I didn't see Sheff Wed fans coming up with special pleading, conspiracy thinking and the like. Reading fans accepted that their club got what it deserved.

Derby fans meanwhile have an odd mix of believing both that they are too important for the rules to apply to them and a poor innocent little club being victimised by all and sundry.

Now they've signed a couple of players they are predictably in Gas style piss the league mode. Mind you by the Rooney rule of thumb they still need to sign another 38!

Oh don't get me wrong, when they were charged or when they thought they got away with it there was anger and jubilation respectively- defiance too but ultimately I think the vast majority in the accepted it for what it was- an FFP breach exacerbated by messing up the mechanism to get out of it. I was somewhat harsh on them at times tbh.

Yes- spot on. That is quite the two positions to simultaneously hold on their part! Massive cognitive dissonance.

"Signed"- but do they fit the criteria to be "registered"- if you note the signings and contract renewals/extensions on the website, they all say "subject to EFL Approval"- any more fun to be had? ;) 

I digress, the Mendez-Laing one doesn't but the other 2 new signings and new contracts do.

Quote

"Please note that this player registration is subject to EFL approval."

Wonder if or when this will become a sticking point. :)

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Signed"- but do they fit the criteria to be "registered"- if you note the signings and contract renewals/extensions on the website, they all say "subject to EFL Approval"- any more fun to be h

Has the EFL actually issued a statement since the takeover? Clowes would have no problem proving funds nor passing the owners and directors test presumably but do we know if a business plan has been agreed? Perhaps I have missed something.

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12 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Has the EFL actually issued a statement since the takeover? Clowes would have no problem proving funds nor passing the owners and directors test presumably but do we know if a business plan has been agreed? Perhaps I have missed something.

EFL on Friday when confirming the takeover said that Derby were able to sign players but that they remain under a Registration Embargo- said they could sign within the confines of the Business Plan but the detail of this Business Plan appears not to be in the public domain.

Two key paragraphs- arguably contradict each other, surprise! As to the plan, I'd say a fair solution would be no transfer fees payable, agents fees as 3% of renumeration- see Reading as an example, player wages not exceeding £5k or £6k per week- that kinda thing. Perhaps signing on fee wise to count towards the total of £5-6k per week ie if a player had a signing on fee of £100k then the actual wage could only be the remainder of £5-6k per week.

Quote

As part of the conditions of continuing membership in the EFL, the Club, whilst remaining under a registration embargo, will be permitted to sign new players in accordance with the terms of a business plan.

The plan, which has been jointly agreed by the new ownership and the EFL, includes restrictions in respect of transfers fees, player wages and agents’ fees. Any application to register players must comply with the terms of those agreed plans. 

https://www.efl.com/news/2022/july/efl-statement-derby-county-exit-administration/

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL on Friday when confirming the takeover said that Derby were able to sign players but that they remain under a Registration Embargo- said they could sign within the confines of the Business Plan but the detail of this Business Plan appears not to be in the public domain.

Two key paragraphs- arguably contradict each other, surprise! As to the plan, I'd say a fair solution would be no transfer fees payable, agents fees as 3% of renumeration- see Reading as an example, player wages not exceeding £5k or £6k per week- that kinda thing. Perhaps signing on fee wise to count towards the total of £5-6k per week ie if a player had a signing on fee of £100k then the actual wage could only be the remainder of £5-6k per week.

https://www.efl.com/news/2022/july/efl-statement-derby-county-exit-administration/

Thanks, I should have seen that. So they are going to have to prove compliance on a case by case basis. That's going to keep somebody busy.

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10 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Thanks, I should have seen that. So they are going to have to prove compliance on a case by case basis. That's going to keep somebody busy.

It sure could! I think Reading have to go through 3 EFL departments for each new addition! :D The Financial, the Legal and the Player Registration one- surely Derby would have similar?

image.png.2bd6d520e8282620098c74d56b791d6a.png

https://star-reading.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/operations-strategic-meeting-14-June-2022.pdf

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It sure could! I think Reading have to go through 3 EFL departments for each new addition! :D The Financial, the Legal and the Player Registration one- surely Derby would have similar?

Assuming they have any staff left. The backroom staff who lost their jobs seem to have been rather forgotten.

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