Jump to content
IGNORED

Derby County


havanatopia
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah he can have this one- Nige!

He had a terrible time at Derby, sacked after 5 minutes, undermined badly, Matt Lawton said his time under Mel nearly had him give up on football.

I am sure he would love it, just love it were we to win there and relegate them...hope he has us properly fired up for this one.

25 years on: Keegan's 'I'll love it if we beat them' rant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

25 years on: Keegan's 'I'll love it if we beat them' rant

Here we go- toxic club Derby by the looks, under Mel Morris and Quantuma. Rooney though some credit to him and some credit to their relatively cobbled together squad too.

Quote

Nigel Pearson reportedly fell out with Morris when he discovered that he was using a drone to watch training sessions. A request for an interview with Morris this week did not receive a response. But one source says that Pearson once took a call off Morris asking him why he had not used corner flags when practising corners.

Pearson, The Times understands, was actually less bothered about the drone, more about the meetings that Morris would have with senior players at his house. Richard Keogh, the club captain, would often be summoned, usually after a defeat.

It led to a major fallout with Pearson, even if claims of a physical confrontation appear to lack veracity. A manager who had taken charge with a three-year contract in May 2016 was nevertheless gone less than six months later.

Pearson is a tough individual but he was almost broken by the experience at Derby. It was the closest he has ever come to walking away from football.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk//article/derby-county-the-inside-story-of-how-the-club-reached-brink-of-extinction-hn2mmhzcd

Win it for Nige...hopefully if the stars align, relegate them for Nige!!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My posted chant was a bit tame @lenred :laughcont:

 Birmingham fans say "Hold my beer!"

Also read that Nottingham Forest fans distributed fake £5 and £10 notes was it from the top tier at the recent game and some Middlesbrough fans may wear Steve Gibson masks when they face off sometime in February.

Football family eh! Minority tbh I expect but little love for them among Championship fans and rightly so.

Haha! Harsh but they are going to get it everywhere now I’d imagine! 

I think DCFC fans are delusional in thinking that every football fan wants them to stay up and get away with not paying their debts. Every comments board I see on social media / newspapers online is full of their fans laying the complete blame on the EFL and most are saying they deserve to stay up and pay however little as they possibly can. They don’t like it when it’s pointed out to them that whilst the vast majority of Championship / EFL fans don’t want to see them go bust, they do want to see them pay their debts in full even if that means them dropping a couple of divisions and working to embargoes / payment plans. 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, lenred said:

Haha! Harsh but they are going to get it everywhere now I’d imagine! 

I think DCFC fans are delusional in thinking that every football fan wants them to stay up and get away with not paying their debts. Every comments board I see on social media / newspapers online is full of their fans laying the complete blame on the EFL and most are saying they deserve to stay up and pay however little as they possibly can. They don’t like it when it’s pointed out to them that whilst the vast majority of Championship / EFL fans don’t want to see them go bust, they do want to see them pay their debts in full even if that means them dropping a couple of divisions and working to embargoes / payment plans. 

Just out of interest, how much of their debts did these current Championship clubs pay to exit administration?
Middlesbrough
Millwall
Bournemouth (twice)
QPR
Barnsley
Luton
Coventry

What about these non-Championship clubs?
Charlton
Palace (twice)
Portsmouth (thrice)
Leicester
Ipswich
Leeds
Southampton
Bolton
Wigan
 

19 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL have folded slightly on an issue as per one report.

When clubs are embargoed Derby style, they cannot loan players.

Crystal Palace wanted to buy Plange and loan him back.

Reportedly, £1m fee AND loaned back.

Yet when Birmingham breached FFP in 2018, one possibility was that in January 2019 Adams would be sold and then loaned back to Birmingham- this was not permitted under embargo regs. What's good for one??

I completely agree. If the rule exists then no exceptions should be made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

I completely agree. If the rule exists then no exceptions should be made.

Although a poster on here did mention the minimum squard limit so perhaps it's fine in those circs. If a precise rule is out there online it'd be useful.

On the admin point, that's fair although I think Derby's HMRC debt maybe the biggest. Portsmouth's claim was similar. Pretty sure though that of that list, Middlesbrough under Gibson had to pay a fair chunk.

His history with a combination of the Football League, Premier League and Rick Parry is a reason I expect why he is so militant.

1986- Middlesbrough ie Gibson v Football League. Have read bits that suggested £825k out of £900k and some kind of bond or something of £2.5m. The reports were contradictory but I think they paid the highest or among the highest % of clubs exiting insolvency.

Read bits about it and there is a perception among some of a Middlesbrough persuasion that the Football League as was made a bit of an example of them. No CVAs then but the Football League set a pretty high bar.

1996/97- Middlesbrough docked 3 points which relegated them from the PL. Points deductions for called off games are extremely rare, perhaps it was uniquely bad? Head of the PL? Rick Parry.

2000- Ziege tapping up problem. Compensation to Middlesbrough. CEO of Liverpool who surely took some blame. A certain Rick Parry.

2019- As Gibson gets going on his legal push, who comes in as Head of the Football League. Why- "God! You again!" Rick Parry.

Definitely bad blood and history between Gibson, Parry and the EFL, PL.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although a poster on here did mention the minimum squard limit so perhaps it's fine in those circs. If a precise rule is out there online it'd be useful.

Based on which metric? I would refer to the EFL's embargo rules page but it states there that existing players can have their contracts extended during an embargo - clearly not the case with Jagielka.

 

Over 21s - 11, so why couldn't Jagielka extend his deal as well?

At least 3 starts - 18. Isn't the minimum 16?

Established player (over 21 and 5 starts) - 11, again why not Jagielka?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

clearly not the case with Jagielka.

Wasn’t he brought in under a special dispensation to cover for a long term injury?  The need for the cover ended, so end of special dispensation.

As for Plange, I personally have no issues, is there an argument that the player, for registration purposes, never leaves Derby until the loan ends?

Edited by Hxj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Based on which metric? I would refer to the EFL's embargo rules page but it states there that existing players can have their contracts extended during an embargo - clearly not the case with Jagielka.

 

Over 21s - 11, so why couldn't Jagielka extend his deal as well?

At least 3 starts - 18. Isn't the minimum 16?

Established player (over 21 and 5 starts) - 11, again why not Jagielka?

He got dispensation to cover for a injury, that expired and wasn't renewed as the player was no longer injured

As a Derby fan you should know that,

No amount of crying is going to change the fact you cheated got caught strang it our and now facing your conquences 

Fully justified fully deserved,

Pay the hmrc in full before crying that you are hard done by

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Monkeh said:

He got dispensation to cover for a injury, that expired and wasn't renewed as the player was no longer injured

As a Derby fan you should know that,

No amount of crying is going to change the fact you cheated got caught strang it our and now facing your conquences 

Fully justified fully deserved,

Pay the hmrc in full before crying that you are hard done by

Crying? Read back and you'll see that I agreed with Mr Pop that we shouldn't have been able to 'keep' Plange based on the fact we couldn't keep Jagielka.

Special dispensation was granted because it took us above the allowable squad size limit - Jagielka and Baldock taking us to 25. Baldock's contract wasn't renewed, and Marshall join QPR on a free. Extending Jagielka's contract should have been allowed as the squad size was kept to 23 and he would have been on the same wage as before (within the terms agreed with the EFL).

Someone suggested Plange staying may have been allowed due to going below a squad size of 16, which doesn't appear to be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a good day at the office for Derby.  Not only losing at Huddersfield, but Stearman's red card dents the defence significantly against Hull, Middlesbrough (oh the irony!) and Peterborough.

Cardiff after their win today are on 29 points from 28 games, on that basis they are aiming at 47 points at the end of the season, they are moving away from the relegation fight.

Derby are on a gross 36 points from 29 games, net 15 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 58 points gross and 37 points net at the end of the season.

Reading are on 28 points gross from 28 games, net 22 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 46 points gross and 40 points net at the end of the season.

Based on the performances to date Derby need 25 points from 17 games to stay up, back to Notts Forest performance (oh the irony!).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought about it and tbh loaning Plange back seems okay because Birmingham when embargoed in that Adams scenario in 2019 were probably at the squad limit. Derby however are not so it feels like one of the less controversial moves.

Regarding Jagielka, I assume it was twofold. Firstly as the financial situation seemed to reach panic and crisis mode what with the 1st February- well now 1st March- deadline.

Allowed to renew if otherwise financially stable in administration, but there seemed to be concern over proof of funds etc.

Secondly, Jagielka and Baldock were only permitted until mid January or thereabouts owing to long term injuries to Bielik and Kazim-Richards. Obviously the return of the latter arguably negated Baldock, Bielik well he is back now but wasn't then.

Plus I note that Rooney has criticised other clubs for taking advantage. I would argue that while it maybe true he is possibly playing a game, siege mentality- us v the world but that would be well set.

In fact, thin though the squad now is I would say it has been a window that could have been worse.

Byrne, Ebosele, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Bielik, Sibley, Lawrence, Jozwiak, indirectly via a loan return Plange all remain on the books.

Does Stretton have promise too?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thought about it and tbh loaning Plange back seems okay because Birmingham when embargoed in that Adams scenario in 2019 were probably at the squad limit. Derby however are not so it feels like one of the less controversial moves.

Regarding Jagielka, I assume it was twofold. Firstly as the financial situation seemed to reach panic and crisis mode what with the 1st February- well now 1st March- deadline.

Allowed to renew if otherwise financially stable in administration, but there seemed to be concern over proof of funds etc.

Secondly, Jagielka and Baldock were only permitted until mid January or thereabouts owing to long term injuries to Bielik and Kazim-Richards. Obviously the return of the latter arguably negated Baldock, Bielik well he is back now but wasn't then.

Plus I note that Rooney has criticised other clubs for taking advantage. I would argue that while it maybe true he is possibly playing a game, siege mentality- us v the world but that would be well set.

In fact, thin though the squad now is I would say it has been a window that could have been worse.

Byrne, Ebosele, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Bielik, Sibley, Lawrence, Jozwiak, indirectly via a loan return Plange all remain on the books.

Does Stretton have promise too?

Yes. Mr Rooney is playing that exact card. Bless him. I would do the same. It plays well. If I were the clubs that shelled out money to keep this express train to Armageddon going for another month I wouldn’t forget that the granny shagger made them look bad publicly despite a loan back to the club by one of them!
 

Supply and demand economics is a bastard when you need the money, but there it is. The only problem is the **** wits will keep harping on about what a conspiracy it is! 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Yes. Mr Rooney is playing that exact card. Bless him. I would do the same. It plays well. If I were the clubs that shelled out money to keep this express train to Armageddon going for another month I wouldn’t forget that the granny shagger made them look bad publicly despite a loan back to the club by one of them!
 

Supply and demand economics is a bastard when you need the money, but there it is. The only problem is the **** wits will keep harping on about what a conspiracy it is! 
 

 

Rooney “I think clubs are taking advantage of our situation”.

In fairness he’s handled himself well, but unfortunately they started it, they took advantage if other clubs by cheating.  It’s come home to roost.

Seems to be a feeling they can raise enough to get them through the season, get relegated, start on minus 15 in Lg1 and ignore Boro and WW. At some point before next season they are going to have to address this.

  • Like 3
  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Hxj said:

Not a good day at the office for Derby.  Not only losing at Huddersfield, but Stearman's red card dents the defence significantly against Hull, Middlesbrough (oh the irony!) and Peterborough.

Cardiff after their win today are on 29 points from 28 games, on that basis they are aiming at 47 points at the end of the season, they are moving away from the relegation fight.

Derby are on a gross 36 points from 29 games, net 15 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 58 points gross and 37 points net at the end of the season.

Reading are on 28 points gross from 28 games, net 22 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 46 points gross and 40 points net at the end of the season.

Based on the performances to date Derby need 25 points from 17 games to stay up, back to Notts Forest performance (oh the irony!).

As much as I hate cardiff and would love them to go down, if they went down at the expense of Derby staying up then it would have a real sour taste as justice would not seemed to have been done.

I want Derby to survive, but have a few seasons of real struggle in L1 or below, to make up for how they tried to cheat the system and other clubs in this division 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

As much as I hate cardiff and would love them to go down, if they went down at the expense of Derby staying up then it would have a real sour taste as justice would not seemed to have been done.

I want Derby to survive, but have a few seasons of real struggle in L1 or below, to make up for how they tried to cheat the system and other clubs in this division 

Not me, I detest Cardiff but I would rather them stay up,

We would still have the severnside Derby

And dcfc deserve to be relegated for cheating

Cardiff are many things but they haven't cheated, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Not me, I detest Cardiff but I would rather them stay up,

We would still have the severnside Derby

And dcfc deserve to be relegated for cheating

Cardiff are many things but they haven't cheated, 

Think you have mis-read what I was saying, I want Derby to go down even at the expense of cardiff staying up, we are saying the same

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the actual football front, barring a) Any clubs sliding into administration between now and May or b) Clubs falling foul of FFP between now and the end of the season with deductions applied this season, I genuinely believe it to be 3 from 4.

Clearly things can still happen on the pitch too but Cardiff now 14 above with a game in hand look like they're edging away- albeit Derby still have to play them twice.

Perhaps Swansea will be a side to drop into the mire although nobody has yet seriously spoken about them in terms of relegation.

Although they are 17 points ahead of Derby with a game in hand in them, maybe 2 can't quite recall.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Yes. Mr Rooney is playing that exact card. Bless him. I would do the same. It plays well. If I were the clubs that shelled out money to keep this express train to Armageddon going for another month I wouldn’t forget that the granny shagger made them look bad publicly despite a loan back to the club by one of them!
 

Supply and demand economics is a bastard when you need the money, but there it is. The only problem is the **** wits will keep harping on about what a conspiracy it is! 
 

 

 

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Rooney “I think clubs are taking advantage of our situation”.

In fairness he’s handled himself well, but unfortunately they started it, they took advantage if other clubs by cheating.  It’s come home to roost.

Seems to be a feeling they can raise enough to get them through the season, get relegated, start on minus 15 in Lg1 and ignore Boro and WW. At some point before next season they are going to have to address this.

Agreed on both counts. Rooney has generally handled things well but at the same time yes they did start the issue via cheating.

Moreover though, it's par for the course in administration and I reiterate some the players that they have kept given the situation is quite notable.

The bit that Rooney did of course forget to add, was that Marshall and Byrne- where and when? Wigan, in their great yard sale of Summer 2020!!

What a yard sale it was too.

Marshall, Byrne, Dunkley, Kipre, Robinson, Williams, Morsy, Jacobs, Windass, Lowe, Moore

Sure there were more as well plus young players pushing through such as Geldhart.

Jacobs for Naismith as the latter having just checked stayed until January 2021.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO famed insolvency practitioner and part-time football manager Wayne Rooney is getting far too much credit in this situation. The bloke is in a win-win situation. All he has to do is keep coming out and pandering to the fans and players. Say the right things, that people want to hear, and he'll be showered with credit either way. Even if they start losing he'll be given more rope than any manager ever has been.

Keep them up and he'll be seen as the Herakles of Derby as he successfully accomplishes the impossible task.

If they go down, ah well, the odds were against him, the evil EFL wanted him to fail, and it was an impossible task to keep them up. Off he goes to Everton to take over from the failed Lampard, and he goes with everyone's blessing, leaving Rosenior to pick up the pieces in League 1.

All of this whilst knowing that should Derby go bust he is a Football Creditor and so all wages owed to him are covered as much as is possible in any insolvency and if they come out of Admin then he gets paid in full by any buyer.

Cushiest job in the league right now.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Off the pitch, an interesting story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60243825

Seems that the Binnies being willing to take the Arbitration claims on may not have been as planned.

It's claimed to be a possible impediment in any event.

In the case of the Binnies, they would say that wouldn't they? Trying to force a deal

As for Rooney, where does he think the money is going? It's towards funding the club in administration, where else? Does he not know the monthly cost of running the club? And shouldn't he ask the Administrators about that and proof of funding not the media?

Edited by chinapig
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

IMO famed insolvency practitioner and part-time football manager Wayne Rooney is getting far too much credit in this situation. The bloke is in a win-win situation. All he has to do is keep coming out and pandering to the fans and players. Say the right things, that people want to hear, and he'll be showered with credit either way. Even if they start losing he'll be given more rope than any manager ever has been.

Keep them up and he'll be seen as the Herakles of Derby as he successfully accomplishes the impossible task.

If they go down, ah well, the odds were against him, the evil EFL wanted him to fail, and it was an impossible task to keep them up. Off he goes to Everton to take over from the failed Lampard, and he goes with everyone's blessing, leaving Rosenior to pick up the pieces in League 1.

All of this whilst knowing that should Derby go bust he is a Football Creditor and so all wages owed to him are covered as much as is possible in any insolvency and if they come out of Admin then he gets paid in full by any buyer.

Cushiest job in the league right now.

Of course you are, so to speak, ‘spot on’ with your assessment. He has the best managers job in football right now, he simply can not lose personally, short of getting caught in a house of Ill repute with a septuagenerian! Not like that might happen.  

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

In the case of the Binnies, they would say that wouldn't they? Trying to force a deal

As for Rooney, where does he think the money is going? It's towards funding the club in administration, where else? Does he not know the monthly cost of running the club? And shouldn't he ask the Administrators about that and proof of funding not the media?

Yes. I was shocked when I read that Rooney was asking where the money was going. The disconnect between some football players and how they are actually getting paid/anyone is getting paid is horrifying!

Edited by REDOXO
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes. I was shocked when I read that Rooney was asking where the money was going. The disconnect between some football players and how they are actually getting paid/anyone is getting paid is horrifying!

Especially when only a few weeks ago he was telling people about imminent preferred bidder nominations, and generally speaking as though he was talking to Quantuma every day.

I'll be honest I had my suspicions then that perhaps he wasn't a fully trained insolvency expert...seems that might be true. Shocking.

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, chinapig said:

In the case of the Binnies, they would say that wouldn't they? Trying to force a deal

As for Rooney, where does he think the money is going? It's towards funding the club in administration, where else? Does he not know the monthly cost of running the club? And shouldn't he ask the Administrators about that and proof of funding not the media?

I expect half the monthly cost is his wages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

THE EFL JUST RELEASED THIS STATEMENT

The EFL Board met today and received an update in respect of Derby County FC.

 

Over the last few weeks, the EFL has engaged proactively with the Club’s Administrators and other key stakeholders including the local authority, MPs and the Rams Trust as we seek to assist the Club in its efforts to exit from administration in accordance with the requirements of the League’s Insolvency Policy.  

The EFL’s Insolvency Policy is designed to offer guidance to Clubs on how the board might seek to deal with any Club in administration. That policy, which has been accepted by all 72 Clubs, describes how the Members agreed ‘that the starting point is that no Club should gain (or seek to gain) any advantage within the context of professional football over other Clubs by not paying all its creditors in full at all times.’ 

In this case, Derby County is seeking to use insolvency legislation to avoid having to defend the claims of Middlesbrough FC (which commenced initially in January 2021) and Wycombe Wanderers FC. Derby County considers those claims should not be treated as football related debts and that it would be wrong for the EFL to require the Club to have to continue to defend the claims as a condition of continuing membership in circumstances where they have been compromised by way of a restructuring plan. The EFL does not agree with that analysis.

At the request of the Administrators, and in line with commitments given at last week’s meeting with local politicians, the EFL has provided a further clear statement to Quantuma of its position on the application of the Insolvency Policy, so as to enable them to apply to the High Court or engage in Arbitration to have that issue determined. It is now for the Administrators to determine how they wish to move this matter forward and we remain willing to expedite any process, as necessary.   

The fact remains that the Club is suffering from critical legacy debt issues that reach into tens of millions, all of which need to be resolved if a solution is to be found. That also includes monies owed to HMRC and the loans from MSD secured against Club assets and the Stadium. 

The EFL has previously requested mediation between the two Clubs and the Administrators and is today inviting all relevant and associated parties involved to enter formal collaborative negotiations to actively seek out the compromises and solutions required to ensure that Derby County has a long-term future. 

For the avoidance of any doubt the EFL is requesting the attendance of Administrators and the following stakeholders to participate: the current highest bidder(s), Middlesbrough FC, Wycombe Wanderers FC, Mel Morris, MSD Partners and HMRC. 

The EFL will endeavour to provide updates on any progress achieved as a result of this request and any subsequent discussions in due course, whilst also continuing to maintain our commitment to transparency in our dealings with the politicians and local authority officials that make up ‘Team Derby’ alongside direct engagement with Derby County Supporters’ groups and the FSA.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The title was changed to Derby County

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...