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9 minutes ago, Marco the red said:

Percy reporting this MAY be coming to an end, efl pointing towards 9 point deduction, derby have to decide whether they accept it or if not stay transfer embargoed plus potential potential penalties 

They will surely appeal and the deduction will be reduced given the Sheff Weds precedent. Even if the embargo is lifted do they have the money to make significant signings?

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Just now, chinapig said:

They will surely appeal and the deduction will be reduced given the Sheff Weds precedent. Even if the embargo is lifted do they have the money to make significant signings?

They’ve certainly left it late in the window….to appeal would surely take them beyond the end of the window?

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

They’ve certainly left it late in the window….to appeal would surely take them beyond the end of the window?

Yes of course you are right. Perhaps they will accept the sanction and have deals lined up. Though short of a takeover I don't see where the money will come from.

They're between a rock and a hard place of their own making. And Morris still probably thinks he's a smart operator.

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3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

the deduction will be reduced given the Sheff Weds precedent.

The penalty was reduced in Wednesday's case partly because the EFL went off on a tangent charging individuals as well as the club, which caused delays and those charges were eventually withdrawn.

The delays in this case are entirely the fault of Derby County.

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

to appeal would surely take them beyond the end of the window?

Technically if Derby are made a formal offer of a sanction they have 14 days to accept or it goes to a disciplinary commission to determine.  There could be an appeal from the DC by either party.

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8 minutes ago, Hxj said:

The penalty was reduced in Wednesday's case partly because the EFL went off on a tangent charging individuals as well as the club, which caused delays and those charges were eventually withdrawn.

The delays in this case are entirely the fault of Derby County.

Technically if Derby are made a formal offer of a sanction they have 14 days to accept or it goes to a disciplinary commission to determine.  There could be an appeal from the DC by either party.

Thanks, understood. It seems to me that all parties are tainted by everything from incompetence to outright venality.

Love the game, hate the business and all that.

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I understood the proposed penalty was 9 points, with a further 3 suspended and an EFL Business Plan.

Some Derby fans are of course saying nothing doing guilt wise, EFL have no leg to stand on as looking for a settlement etc.

https://theramswriter.wordpress.com/2021/08/26/derby-county-close-to-efl-settlement-with-a-points-deduction-still-possible/

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/38137-points-deduction-incoming/

Just keep the hard Embargo on if they can't agree and keep the Wheels of Justice grinding on, giving no quarter.

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One thing that the Article doesn't mention is what happens with the 2019, 2020 Accounts and those periods ie into 2019 and the combined 2020 and 2021.

Or would the 9 pts, plus 3 suspended and a Business Plan be part of an all encompassing Settlement that includes all the other period affected by Restatement of the Accounts?

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11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One thing that the Article doesn't mention is what happens with the 2019, 2020 Accounts and those periods ie into 2019 and the combined 2020 and 2021.

Or would the 9 pts, plus 3 suspended and a Business Plan be part of an all encompassing Settlement that includes all the other period affected by Restatement of the Accounts?

Will be interesting to see the breakdown, eventually…..might be a breakdown from Derby fans too.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Will be interesting to see the breakdown, eventually…..might be a breakdown from Derby fans too.

It will.

Like I say, lots seem still to be defiant, proclaiming innocence, that they should keep fighting etc.

I actually have suggested before that Derby propose a settlement but slightly different.

Double figure deduction in exchange for all Transfer Embargoes being lifted save for FFP obligations being monitored for the ongoing season.

9 pts with 3 suspended plus a Business Plan, quite similar. Had Derby been the ones to propose it they might even have got a better deal.

As it is, Mel and his stubbornness- well they can just remain under Embargo for many months with the possibility of charges for this or subsequent periods. Entirely self-inflicted, they have their 23 after all so no more signings necessary.

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I note that a poster on there referred to a 'halfwit on OTIB'.

Given some of your fans still argue a) That the Amortisation was FRS 102 compliant and b) That the EFL have little to go on, I scoff to an extent.

What some of your fans clearly fail or choose not to grasp, talking of foolish, is that the EFL don't necessarily have to lift the Embargo until all is agreed.

9 points, 3 suspended and a 2021/22 Business Plan or no more inbound Transfers allowed for the foreseeable and investigations rolling on, time for a bit of pragmatism? 

Especially if it removes liability and potential risk for Accounts and FFP to 2019, average of 2020 and 2021, plus 2017 working back.

Makes a takeover harder too the current impasse. Prevailing uncertainty and messy issues tend to...

PPS, interesting to see the sudden turning on John Percy. Always thought he was very reliable on Midlands Football, pretty strong for Derby as a source and not bad on EFL FFP matters.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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They're in a bit of a League of their own tbh, some Derby fans.

On FFP matters anyway. Okay maybe I'm being unfair but in terms of Championship FFP cases, old and new methods does anyone else remember:

*As much complaining for as long.

*As much rubbishing of expert witness.

*Claims for as loudly and as long that the Accounts still were in-line with FRS 102.

*Suggestions still of submitting via tricky methods to try and get round.. 

*...While failing/refusing to accept that approach may well prolong the Embargo and limbo in which they find themselves.

The EFL have come this far, they need to see things through to the bitter end, unless a mutually agreed and conclusive Settlement is agreed.

I don't see Mel Morris agreeing to matters, as it would mean an Admission that yes the Club have done wrong.

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Are misconduct charges also applicable here, in due course?

image.png.bfbd30ffc077b036014be9f061ae7cf0.png

Remember they would be in addition and separate to any invoking of the powers contained within Regulation 16.8.

Clearly the EFL should also look closely at whether this is applicable, in addition to the FFP issue if Derby continue to resist a settlement.

16.3 you could make a case for I expect.

image.png.48e23f2e766286e6e05a852e71969092.png

I mean he's a good poster, but I have to wonder about this bit..

image.thumb.png.9cd79a26a662075d9a8c88d2f90c945a.png

3 years to 2018 first full 3 year period? Well that's not what the EFL site suggests...

image.png.4c5c9fd13d1c089ea3e36f941e8ab090.png

image.png.de6259998eea35a35390929d1436bc61.png

I don't see how it fits with first 3 years to 2018 then. That said I doubt they'll work backwards.

Never mind me going on, @AnotherDerbyFan so much to report in developments...very interested in your take, so much in the last few weeks!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

but I have to wonder about this bit..

I agree - clearly deranged suggesting a 15 point penalty!  Even better is Charlotte Ram who says:

'You are also correct that Amortisation policy of an intangible asset i.e. the players contract, is up to the company concerned and is not covered by FRS 102, so the EFL's stance has no legal basis on fact. Just because the other clubs do straight line amortisation is irrelevant, we did not break any laws or regulations, so my view is "see you in court axs wipes"  '

Clearly they haven't read the FRS or the LAP decision ...

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30 minutes ago, Hxj said:

 

I agree - clearly deranged suggesting a 15 point penalty!  Even better is Charlotte Ram who says:

'You are also correct that Amortisation policy of an intangible asset i.e. the players contract, is up to the company concerned and is not covered by FRS 102, so the EFL's stance has no legal basis on fact. Just because the other clubs do straight line amortisation is irrelevant, we did not break any laws or regulations, so my view is "see you in court axs wipes"  '

Clearly they haven't read the FRS or the LAP decision ...

Ha the take of some of them on this, especially Charlotte Ram.

GoC I'm a bit surprised at, usually a good grasp of the facts but that poster usually good. Them aside, some of their takes on the EFL issue are baffling! Don't see where some of them are coming from at all. Decent numbers still in recent days or maybe it's posts by a few posters, debating the accuracy of the decision about FRS 102.

Interesting to see that Club DCFC still seems to be active and trading while under the 1st Gazette notice, it's got just short of 2 months to sort it out. 

No clue on Stadia DCFC, I assume Derby County FC Academy is still there, no clue on Sevco 5112.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Forgot to ask you @Hxj

Is over on the FFP thread, but Hillsborough. £60m price and the £38m profit surely overdone?? Think that the EFL would have grounds to delve back in (Independent Valuation in 2014, DRC=£22.25m plus Land at £1.5m). Cost combined at the equivalent £11-12m.

Sale 2018 or 2019, £60m. Presumably DRC for P&S. Land inflation in Hillsborough area eh, wow!!

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Couple of little bits.

Ha, will there be a retrospective ban for this- ref missed it- ouch! Saw it on Quest earlier. Although is there also a question of intent or lack of, ie standing/stumbling back. This was 10 mins in, he got the assist but then again they should possibly have had a pen as well.

On a side note, the claims of conspiracy are stacking up a bit! I remember a while ago, it was Kieran Maguire hated them, the EFL (obviously!), they think/thought that Matt Hughes and the Daily Mail weren't terribly fond of them, vice versa I am sure, now they're mentioning Sky and EFL refs! Oh plus Gibson, never forget Gibson!

Is there in fact a Grand conspiracy vs the club- we should be told! Or is it actually:

  1. Flagging of questionable Accounting practices as a a matter of interest. He is after all a Football Finance Blogger/Author whatever, plus publicity sells does it not!
  2. A Regulator and fellow clubs sick to the back teeth and beyond of never ending attempted loopholes.
  3. A reporter feeding info he had found- yes indeed probably with the aim to sell papers/generate content.
  4. Sky- Well the hype is the hype and bad news sells!
  5. Gibson- Seeking to establish the facts perhaps but with genuine suspicions about the Practices, worth noting that in Spring 2019 Pulis changed his tune a few times on the FFP issue in the same interview!
  6. EFL Refs? Well, they could be secretly in cahoots to send the club down, but then Championship/EFL Officiating has been poor for years! I remember reading last year in a couple of papers that Championship Clubs maybe a large number or even as a collective were flagging concerns about the standard of EFL Refs etc. Tbh some of it could all be a bit of fun on their part "Ah they've all got it in for us etc" or could be useful to foster a siege mentality but I wonder if any believe it, lock stock and barrel.

It's a strange coalition if true...EFL, Kieran Maguire, Matt Hughes, Nixon too maybe, Sky Sports, Steve Gibson and random EFL refs- Rick Parry and (formerly of their club)Trevor Birch!

The coalition of...? Anyone?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Had a little delve into the most recent EFL Financial Regs.

It's the first time they mention Revaluation Reserves in any context, albeit it's for League One so may not be applicable here as such but...

image.png.42f4b0f837d5cc5fa1967ad731fa2f28.png

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/b3cd34c726c341ca9636610aa4503172/regulations-season-2021-22-final.pdf

2.9 and arguably 2.10...however "Any revaluation reserves do not qualify for inclusion". Sounds to me as if the EFL most definitely would not be inclined to accept the apparent extra Profit on the disposal of Pride Park for P&S/FFP purposes if it's as Kieran Maguire suggested. Could call it Other Income I guess, but again they wouldn't accept.

Under Football Fortune Income.

If it's Accumulated Profit you're looking at, that's negative for Club and the consolidated Sevco 5112 alike- even with the £30m added in/included.

Wonder what will happen first- acceptance of EFL terms or a new IDC...new IDC how long will that take? Can't see it being done and dusted if the latter by February, can you...? As it stands that would mean that they sit out the January window and quite possibly lose Jagielka and Baldock- their contracts run until January.

Bit tricky to sell the club in that position too?

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Here we go again .....

2064030096_Screenshot2021-09-03at16_14_48.png.39321acc117121bfd68b76b649ff8e21.png

Meanwhile in other news:

Derby County left-back Craig Forsyth has been banned for three games after admitting a charge of violent conduct.

The incident, in the fifth minute of the Rams' Championship draw with Nottingham Forest on Saturday, was not seen by officials at the time.

It means Forsyth, 32, will miss league games against Birmingham, West Brom and Stoke after the international break.

 

 

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Now I'm sure the club in q will step back from this but who knew that the EFL had such powers?

https://the72.co.uk/249479/details-of-possible-transfer-ban-revealed-as-deadline-set-for-derby-county-to-pay-off-outstanding-transfer-fees/

The full story is online, but if they don't settle their Transfer debts that show on the EFL Rap Sheet by the end of the month, they will have a Transfer ban- presumably for fees and the like in January 2022, Summer 2022 and January 2023- normal service resumed by Summer 2023??

I don't know what it means, whether it simply means no fees, or no fees and wage limit or similar.

We'll know in about a month.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Now I'm sure the club in q will step back from this but who knew that the EFL had such powers?

https://the72.co.uk/249479/details-of-possible-transfer-ban-revealed-as-deadline-set-for-derby-county-to-pay-off-outstanding-transfer-fees/

The full story is online, but if they don't settle their Transfer debts that show on the EFL Rap Sheet by the end of the month, they will have a Transfer ban- presumably for fees and the like in January 2022, Summer 2022 and January 2023- normal service resumed by Summer 2023??

I don't know what it means, whether it simply means no fees, or no fees and wage limit or similar.

We'll know in about a month.

If Reading's embargo, in which they signed a player who earns around £120,000 a week, is anything to go by. It wont mean much.

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5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

If Reading's embargo, in which they signed a player who earns around £120,000 a week, is anything to go by. It wont mean much.

Reading have a possibly unique relationship with Chelsea- that's pretty abnormal, they've helped Reading out before at varied times- usually Embargoes severely restrict clubs.

Of more importance perhaps with Reading is why have they not been charged over FFP yet. EFL site says breached FFP Regs.

Under the terms of their breach, they are allowed to sign players on frees or loans- 1 year deals, to take them up to 24 players and their wage cap was £8,500 per week per player and I think they were allowed to sign 6,

It just so happened that Chelsea chose to subsidise a minimum of 90% of it- combined wages at that club are £170k per week- for Rahman and Drinkwater. 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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28 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I've pretty much given up with the powers that be.

If the EFL were a gate .....

1429723947_Screenshot2021-09-05at20_11_33.png.ea9880fee5d8ee56b630a3725ed586f2.png

If the EFL were a gate, this is Derby, Reading et al....

Competition Carriage Driving _56718

Edited by downendcity
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EFL are attempting to right historic wrongs in some cases, though the Reading situation is baffling.

The treatment of the latter does seem to be significantly more favourable than Birmingham in 2018 though.

I have to wonder if the EFL only have capacity to pursue one Championship P&S/FFP case at a time. Seems that way in some respects.

Reading aside, it's strange really- fans of the club who are subject of this thread and have not far off as many offences to their name than the other 71 clubs put together, they or some of them anyway still complain bitterly that the EFL are unfair, have an agenda against them etc.

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Possibly clutching at straws but one more bit to wonder about maybe.

EFL insolvency Regs don't just include the Club but Group Undertakings as well. Unsure how Parent Undertakings fit.

Were Sevco 5112 Limited to be struck off due to Non Submission how would this cross over?

Insolvency Event constitutes an automatic 12 point deduction. Could a compulsory strike off due to Non compliance be deemed an Insolvency Event and would Sevco 5112 Limited be applicable in any event?

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