Davefevs Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Not just fans…major impact on staff, their livelihoods at stake…just like Bolton. Mel won't be struggling will he? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterRedthanBlue Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: I reckon old Mel`s shot himself in the foot whinging about the EFL loan, pissed them off big time. As far as I'm aware no other owner has complained about it and I'm sure derby were offered the exact same terms as all the other clubs. I do hope that the EFL give them the additional 9 points because the people running the club are in no other terms cheats. I feel sorry for everyone else, the tea lady, the kit man, the chef's and all of these other people because a lot of them will probably lose their jobs as a result of this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said: EFL Statement: https://www.efl.com/news/2021/september/efl-statement-derby-county2 30 minutes ago, Davefevs said: No sign of EFL sympathy there. 27 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: I reckon old Mel`s shot himself in the foot whinging about the EFL loan, pissed them off big time. Isn't it a lovely polite way of saying "would you lend someone money if they wouldn't agree to repay it in good time?" Good on the EFL for spelling it out so well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Remember all the bravado from Derby fans when the fiasco around the “sale” of Pride Park surfaced. When it was realised they had broken no rules because of the EFL’s rules cock up, I remember reading comments from their fans boasting that Derby had cleared the sale with the EFL and that bleating by other clubs was just sour grapes. On one occasion, a fan suggested that Bristol City fans were jealous because we couldn't sell Ashton Gate in the same way. At the same time, many Derby fans defended criticism of their club’s actions and strategy with comments along the lines of “Mel Morris is a lifelong fan and would never do anything to jeopardise the club’s future”. That went well, didn't it?! Derby has now been hoist on it’s own petard. Morris did what many owners have done int he past, which is to throw money at attempting to gain promotion to the premier league, the financial rewards for which would recoup the expenditure and give him the return he wanted. Unfortunately, he attempted this under the ffp rules and when Lampard failed at the final hurdle the shit or bust chickens were coming home to roost. It is now clear that while selling Pride Park might have papered over the ffp cracks, which I suspect many thought to be just paper money, the reality was that the club had real financial issues, which is why Morris has been trying to sell. Ffp wasn't introduced to create a level playing field, or to somehow punish clubs like Derby. It was to prevent owners/clubs from over extending themselves trying to chase promotion and creating the sort of financial tsunami we saw in Portsmouth’s case. The irony therefore, is that there is a very strong chance that Derby would not be in the financial mess they now find themselves, had Morris not tried to cheat the EFL’s financial rules in order to gain an advantage over most championship clubs in his quest for promotion. 8 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loderingo Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Feel sorry for Wycombe. Derby will be back eventually but Wycombe may not 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shadow Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Not just fans…major impact on staff, their livelihoods at stake…just like Bolton. Mel won't be struggling will he? That really is a sad consequence of the cheats. I just hope those affected vent their anger on the club's owner and not the EFL. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Disappointed with the comments on here. Yes Morris and Pearce took the proverbial but how sad for a once great club. Lots of good people up here will be mourning tonight and worried about their jobs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, Loderingo said: Feel sorry for Wycombe. Derby will be back eventually but Wycombe may not To be fair Wycombe should never have got promoted in the first place but agree that derby should have gone instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hxj said: Disappointed with the comments on here. Yes Morris and Pearce took the proverbial but how sad for a once great club. Lots of good people up here will be mourning tonight and worried about their jobs I think most people have added a comment to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_b Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, Hxj said: Disappointed with the comments on here. Yes Morris and Pearce took the proverbial but how sad for a once great club. Lots of good people up here will be mourning tonight and worried about their jobs Because of shyster owners. If football doesn’t learn from the ongoing failures of clubs, how many in the future will suffer the same fate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, tommy_b said: Because of shyster owners. If football doesn’t learn from the ongoing failures of clubs, how many in the future will suffer the same fate? It did learn from the Portsmouth collapse, which is why ffp was introduced - to try and prevent exactly this happening. Morris/Derby chose to ignore/ride roughshod over the financial rules, hoping that cheating financially would secure promotion, the rewards from which would balance the books and justify the financial exposure. Derby’s plight now would seem to not only justify the need for ffp rules to safeguard clubs from profligate owners, but that those rules need to be tightened and better enforced. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, downendcity said: It did learn from the Portsmouth collapse, which is why ffp was introduced - to try and prevent exactly this happening. Morris/Derby chose to ignore/ride roughshod over the financial rules, hoping that cheating financially would secure promotion, the rewards from which would balance the books and justify the financial exposure. Derby’s plight now would seem to not only justify the need for ffp rules to safeguard clubs from profligate owners, but that those rules need to be tightened and better enforced. And yet, as recently as Wednesday evening we had people on here advocating for SL to do something similar, like promotion would be a given if we just spent money outside of the rules. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: And yet, as recently as Wednesday evening we had people on here advocating for SL to do something similar, like promotion would be a given if we just spent money outside of the rules. I know. Imagine 1982 again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Quick question. Has Mel run low on funds, or simply run out of ways to bend the rules? By that, I mean is he committed to finding a safe pair of hands to take the club on, or does he just want shot regardless of the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martnewts Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 Some timing by Morris as furlough ends on 30 September, it would be interesting to know how many club staff (not players) have been still furloughed up to now and now that Morris will need to cover those wages going forward he has decided to pull the plug 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 (edited) Wow! 12 hrs ago I was merely pondering their FFP fate. Plus putting queries out there as to the professional standing and whether they could be playing fast and loose with injuries in order to have Baldock AND Kazim Richards for a time. I was looking forward to a possible -9 and 3 suspended plus Business Plan. Looks like they have bigger issues now?? I thought admin might make it a harder sell but it might also eat into some debt...their Statement is something else however! A key bit that they neglect to mention is that the £8.3m is subject to EFL Regulations and compliance therein- particularly financial ones. Well we all know the answer to the compliance q... I also forgot to add, it's repayable out of future broadcasting income/Solidarity Payments unless the deal changed- robbing Peter to pay Paul albeit a potential lifesaver all the same. I saw it earlier when out briefly but my phone died. I feel sympathy for the following: Staff- blameless in these business into admin type scenarios. The decent chunk of their fanbase. I am sure that there will be more that I have not considered but sympathy to those too. Not much though for those who were gloating as recently as July about EFL on strings, Mel is the man etc etc. Not least when it looked like the £30m Revaluation Reserve bit might change the picture again. Long memories- we all recall the Rooney signing, the stadium sale and leaseback, the gloating about how clever the club was, how bumbling the EFL were/are. Clearly hope they don't go bust- that said, how must Wycombe be feeling now, the FFP can was kicked down the road and I guess so by the looks of it was the administration one!! I'm not going to go into gloating but just remember this... This is how it started. This is how it's going. On a dry and technical financial note, what of the MSD debt? That said they appear to have been very supportive based on the statement. Keogh...would it not be a strong irony indeed if his debt was the tipping point. I doubt it was hefty enough to do that however. Ironically, either of a) Volunteering for relegation ahead of Wycombe LAST season in exchange for everything and I mean everything wiped clean, stadium allowed to return to club ownership as part of the package etc along the lines of what @Hxj suggested, or b) Not pursuing the sale and leaseback and maybe reforming properly back then, that might have enabled them to take a better path- along the lines of what @downendcity has said at varied times. Then again, Derby win one of the playoffs- in particular 2019- as it was the final- and he's the hero! The local fan owner who took them back up to the top flight. He didn't cut his losses though, he seemed to double down in some ways- Bielik, the 32Red Rooney deal, Cocu and his staff can't have been cheap, sacking Keogh was reckoned to be an attempt to shuffle FFP away- other attempts to possibly push amortisation away- see the new evidence EFL wanted admitting. Edited September 18, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 (edited) Couple more observations. This surely doesn't annul the FFP situation. They can't surely throw it out of the window given how far the EFL have come. Would Keogh now be classed as a football creditor. Will any regulatory bodies be interested in the myriad of transactions and those involved- not least regarding those who signed off, namely the auditors, but also perhaps the directors and maybe even the valuers albeit the panel upheld that valuation but that transaction enabled further spending that could have been hard to sustain. Given the flak he got, it's at least possible that with FFP + Admin- two cheers for Matt Hughes if it's accurate for he called 21 points albeit in somewhat of a different context! Edited September 18, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Couple more observations. This surely doesn't annul the FFP situation. They can't surely throw it out of the window given how far the EFL have come. Would Keogh now be classed as a football creditor. Will any regulatory bodies be interested in the myriad of transactions and those involved- not least regarding those who signed off, namely the auditors, but also perhaps the directors and maybe even the valuers albeit the panel upheld that valuation but that transaction enabled further spending that could have been hard to sustain. Given the flak he got, it's at least possible that with FFP + Admin- two cheers for Matt Hughes if it's accurate for he called 21 points albeit in somewhat of a different context! According to BBC sport this still ongoing and Derby still face a possible further 9 point deduction for breaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 44 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said: According to BBC sport this still ongoing and Derby still face a possible further 9 point deduction for breaches. It's doesn't annul but the cynic in me thinks Morris gambles the EFL are less likely to hit them with another sizeable points deduction after the administration penalty. The EFL must punish them heavily. Even the disingenuous administration statement implies all this wasn't Derby's fault, it was others who connived to bring them low. Nothing against Derby fans but if you are one and cheered and gloated the lying and shyster activities Morris promoted, then don't look for sympathy as you, too, are the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 I don’t consider myself as a a bitter and twisted bloke. However, Derby being rogered senseless is the most pleasing thing for me since the sags were relegated at home by a team borrowing their away kit. Everything coming home to roost at the same time. At this point it would be usual to feel for the fans but I don’t. My experience of them and their billy big bollocks attitude leaves me enjoying their discomfort. Off to League 1 you go Wayne and Mel. Good riddance. Maybe I am bitter and twisted after all ! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 As a fanbase , can we be bigger than a lot of other clubs fans. I’m sure forest, Leicester etc are revelling in the news of derby going into administration. Let’s not forget where we were in 1982 please. It’s always the fans that suffer. Anyone reading this that was alive back then & thought we’d have no club to wake up to . Just think back& remember how worrying that was. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 If buyers are thin on the ground, do League One accept teams in administration? I'm thinking they probably do (Bolton were still on administration I think), but I have a feeling the Conference don't. Not that they are anywhere near that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: If buyers are thin on the ground, do League One accept teams in administration? I'm thinking they probably do (Bolton were still on administration I think), but I have a feeling the Conference don't. Not that they are anywhere near that. Conference don’t , you’re right . Football league are one entity though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: As a fanbase , can we be bigger than a lot of other clubs fans. I’m sure forest, Leicester etc are revelling in the news of derby going into administration. Let’s not forget where we were in 1982 please. It’s always the fans that suffer. Anyone reading this that was alive back then & thought we’d have no club to wake up to . Just think back& remember how worrying that was. Isewater Junior ,Senior ,was born in Derby ( error number 1) and is a dyed in the wool ( pun intended) Rams fan.( error number 2 from me) he is devastated with the threat of Derby folding. IMHO , they will suck it up and come back stronger in the near future. The club , brand if you like , is too strong to be ignored by the vultures who circle around our football world looking for trinkets. For all his failures I am really grateful for Uncle Steve and his stewardship of our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamalagerdrinker Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 Is it possible for Derby to do a Bury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, iamalagerdrinker said: Is it possible for Derby to do a Bury? Probably not. I certainly hope not. But let's face it, there were 5 minutes of crocodile tears in the football media over Bury's demise then they were forgotten. Will football ever get it's financial act together unless a major club goes to the wall is the question I keep coming back to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 50 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: As a fanbase , can we be bigger than a lot of other clubs fans. I’m sure forest, Leicester etc are revelling in the news of derby going into administration. Let’s not forget where we were in 1982 please. It’s always the fans that suffer. Anyone reading this that was alive back then & thought we’d have no club to wake up to . Just think back& remember how worrying that was. There's a world of difference in being 'incompetently run' & 'being incompetently run whilst actively cheating & seeking to blame anybody other than oneself for that failure'. Therein lies the difference between 1982 & Derby under Morris. And whilst many (myself included) believe SL contravenes the 'spirit' of FFP (not that's worth much,) they also tend to be those not clamouring for new, expensive & unrealistic signings, or those who throw their toys out the pram when results take a downturn. City exist because SL has very deep pockets, not you'd know that from much of the abuse & delusion City muppets throw his way. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, chinapig said: Probably not. I certainly hope not. But let's face it, there were 5 minutes of crocodile tears in the football media over Bury's demise then they were forgotten. Will football ever get it's financial act together unless a major club goes to the wall is the question I keep coming back to. Im sure it wont, you only need to see what happened to barcelona to see even the biggest clubs can mess it up, and paris were there to sign up everyone they could. I believe schalke have messed up too, plenty in russia and china as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 I wonder if the players know what figures were added to their blank contracts yet? Will the administrators have any say in what those figures are going forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted September 18, 2021 Report Share Posted September 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: There's a world of difference in being 'incompetently run' & 'being incompetently run whilst actively cheating & seeking to blame anybody other than oneself for that failure'. Therein lies the difference between 1982 & Derby under Morris. And whilst many (myself included) believe SL contravenes the 'spirit' of FFP (not that's worth much,) they also tend to be those not clamouring for new, expensive & unrealistic signings, or those who throw their toys out the pram when results take a downturn. City exist because SL has very deep pockets, not you'd know that from much of the abuse & delusion City muppets throw his way. I agree but I’m just looking at it from a fans perspective. As a club derby deserve everything they get, but like us they have no say in how the clubs run. How SL (footballing wise) has run us I’m critical of but not financially if that makes sense. That for another day though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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