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2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Honestly, I suspect the answer from the EFL is:

  1. we agree that insolvency law trumps our regulations; and
  2. we aren't stopping you from exiting administration, if you've got a deal with creditors then you (the company) can do that right now under insolvency law; but
  3. unless you also adhere to our rules - which say you have to satisfy 'Football Creditors' - then it's off to the National League with you as we're a private members league and have our own rules as well.

Trouble there of course is that it is hard enough to get someone to buy a failing Championship/L1 club and satisfy tens of millions of pounds worth of debt...no one is going to do that for a non-league club.

And so we are back at the beginning, with a club that has no residual value, mountains of debt, saleable assets, and ends up bust.

And all because the old regime cheated, gained competitive advantage through that cheating, and then got caught.

Imagine if he starts up Derby City FC. The scenes.

I think those 3 points sum it up for me and help answer why it’s a mess…especially point 3.  I was struggling to wrap my head around it.

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think those 3 points sum it up for me and help answer why it’s a mess…especially point 3.  I was struggling to wrap my head around it.

Gibbo always knew he holds Derby and Mel Boy by the balls. Wycombe bloke now knows too. Any other club want to make a claim. 

Edited by REDOXO
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7 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

What I don't get is how on earth can Derby ask to sign players as they seem to want to do?

Why on earth would a contracted player go there is another question?

Even under a transfer embargo you can sign players,

Granted they are only on the free or loan and must not breach a wage threshold, and finally once you have 24 players (youth over 17 on professional contracts count towards this I think)

Then you can no longer sign anyone,

As for ooc players going their, some go to be in the shop window, some because they have nothing else and some because they want the challenge

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Even under a transfer embargo you can sign players,

Granted they are only on the free or loan and must not breach a wage threshold, and finally once you have 24 players (youth over 17 on professional contracts count towards this I think)

Then you can no longer sign anyone,

As for ooc players going their, some go to be in the shop window, some because they have nothing else and some because they want the challenge

I remembered I’d seen this in the Derby decision document. 6.2 covers off the likes of Ebosele, Buchanan, Bird, etc.

image.thumb.png.78142122522ef18e686d5df752e501b0.png

 

 

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11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Pretty simple route out of it really. Either someone stumps up the cash or Derby dies. 

Same as it was 4 months ago.

I find the Derby fans crying about this blaming the efl amusing

This is Derby's fault and own making, had they accepted the punishment last season and not appealed then none of this would be happening,

They'd be in league 1 with new owners 

Also stating the the hmrc won't get their money if Derby are liquidated,

The hmrc want a massive club to go to the wall to send a message to the other clubs not to mess with their tax contributions 

Edited by Monkeh
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I would like Derby to survive and I feel sympathy with a reasonable chunk of the fans but shit like this tempers it!

At a time where we are having to pay more in NI from April, HMRC will be looking for more tax from the rest of us- well!?

The optics are not good, not least as a Melvyn Morris appeared to have donated to the Tories in 2017- albeit seems to be a one off and could be a different Melvyn Morris from Derbyshire. Unsurprisingly though, the political lobbying or calls are a thing. Beckett is Labour however,

Also what have the internal EFL Regulations which Derby signed up to got to do with her and other MPs- I understand the desperation but the shift the blame culture from a significant minority of Derby fans, leaves a real bad taste.

I also believe that the £8m out of £28m figure floated was no coincidence- because EFL regs state 25% minimum for unsecured creditors- if it went to court, I assume Derby/Quantuma would be seeking a cross class cram down which can be imposed upon classes of creditors, just above that threshold but not prohibitively so- and a hefty write-down all the same. If HMRC had accepted that or do accept that then other Unsecured Creditors would have to accept the same- Football Creditors aside- just enough to avoid the 15 pts next season?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I would like Derby to survive and I feel sympathy with a reasonable chunk of the fans but shit like this tempers it!

At a time where we are having to pay more in NI from April, HMRC will be looking for more tax from the rest of us- well!?

The optics are not good, not least as a Melvyn Morris appeared to have donated to the Tories in 2017- albeit seems to be a one off and could be a different Melvyn Morris from Derbyshire. Unsurprisingly though, the political lobbying or calls are a thing. Beckett is Labour however,

Also what have the internal EFL Regulations which Derby signed up to got to do with her and other MPs- I understand the desperation but the shift the blame culture from a significant minority of Derby fans, leaves a real bad taste.

I also believe that the £8m out of £28m figure floated was no coincidence- because EFL regs state 25% minimum for unsecured creditors- if it went to court, I assume Derby/Quantuma would be seeking a cross down cram down which can be imposed upon class of creditors, just above that threshold but not prohibitively so- and a hefty write-down all the same. If HMRC had accepted that or do accept that then other Unsecured Creditors would have to accept the same- Football Creditors aside- just enough to avoid the 15 pts next season?

Hmrc are classed as football Creditors now I thought, so have to be paid in full,

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14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Hmrc are classed as football Creditors now I thought, so have to be paid in full,

Not altogether sure on that one- @Hxj knows more than me on this so I'll defer to him! Sure a few others have greater knowledge too.

City are on soon so...will get back on it tomorrow or Monday probably.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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The Shear arrogance and blame shifting culture of all concerned with this bloody football club is as galling as it gets!

Their continual chase to recapture a perceived glorious past has constantly put them in financial problems over many years. However Mel Boy is the greatest of them all. Not declaring his accounts to the FA/EFL, Constant bickering and fighting over the rules, Not paying tax on players wages over an extended period, selling the ground  to the owner to the Football Club but never actually realizing the cash, the list is effing endless!

Yet whining ****  **** blame every one from the board of the EFL to @Mr Popodopolous for there god and sympathy forsaken plight! 
 

For the benefit of any Derby Fans reading this. Mel Morris Is To Blame! And No We All Pay Our Effing Taxes Derby County needs to also. If Derby Fans want to do something useful that other supporters can get behind perhaps think about any possible legal action that may be taken against Mel Bloody Morris!

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2 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

As a small business owner who has to jump through numerous hoops and have my integrity questioned if I so much as suggest I might not be able to pay my (relatively) small VAT bill on time I will be ******* livid if they get away with not having to pay HMRC in full.

Agree, they paid players to avoid further points deductions / embargo, whilst not paying the tax and NI.  £26m of it.  Mel Morris made that decision, now he's run away.  Why isn't the anger at him?

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12 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The Shear arrogance and blame shifting culture of all concerned with this bloody football club is as galling as it gets!

Their continual chase to recapture a perceived glorious past has constantly put them in financial problems over many years. However Mel Boy is the greatest of them all. Not declaring his accounts to the FA/EFL, Constant bickering and fighting over the rules, Not paying tax on players wages over an extended period, selling the ground  to the owner to the Football Club but never actually realizing the cash, the list is effing endless!

Yet whining ****  **** blame every one from the board of the EFL to @Mr Popodopolous for there god and sympathy forsaken plight! 
 

For the benefit of any Derby Fans reading this. Mel Morris Is To Blame! And No We All Pay Our Effing Taxes Derby County needs to also. If Derby Fans want to do something useful that other supporters can get behind perhaps think about any possible legal action that may be taken against Mel Bloody Morris!

 

9 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

As a small business owner who has to jump through numerous hoops and have my integrity questioned if I so much as suggest I might not be able to pay my (relatively) small VAT bill on time I will be ******* livid if they get away with not having to pay HMRC in full.

 

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, they paid players to avoid further points deductions / embargo, whilst not paying the tax and NI.  £26m of it.  Mel Morris made that decision, now he's run away.  Why isn't the anger at him?

They're trying to lobby MPs, make petitions etc. One of their highest earners got both today and their great run continues, have won a number of games with 1 or equal shots on target to goals- very clinical? 12 goals, 18 shots on target I think or 12 from 19- Bournemouth home to now.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

 

They're trying to lobby MPs, make petitions etc. One of their highest earners got both today and their great run continues, have won a number of games with 1 or equal shots on target- very clinical?

Good for them. The players are really putting it in and we all have to appreciate that, but we all know that unless there is some kind of confirmed financing soon anyone who is any good will have to be sold and if that money is not actually in the pipeline the players are losing value by the minute. 
 

Mel Morris holds the key. If he picks up some of the debt personally, without prejudice, maybe they have a chance, but I don’t see it. He looks to me like he would rather watch them die than spend a penny from his own fortune. Makes you happy we have SL no matter whatever anyone says or thinks! 

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I notice a rather vocal and loud Derby fan complaining about some of the perceived injustices- AndrewD.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59918636

Very common name but wonder if D might stand for Delve? Surprised there was no looking at the audit company given the case and ruled against FRS 102.

Andrew Delve-Smith Cooper-Auditors of DCFC, unsure if they still are...and someone of the same name of the same company called James Delve is a passionate DCFC fan as per his entry on the auditors site?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

 

They're trying to lobby MPs, make petitions etc. One of their highest earners got both today and their great run continues, have won a number of games with 1 or equal shots on target to goals- very clinical? 12 goals, 18 shots on target I think or 12 from 19- Bournemouth home to now.

Even if they were a top team you'd say that kind of clinical finishing is unsustainable.  

They're going down or going bust.

If they want to pester the receptionist at the EFL then go ahead. It'll get them nowhere.

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32 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Even if they were a top team you'd say that kind of clinical finishing is unsustainable.  

They're going down or going bust.

If they want to pester the receptionist at the EFL then go ahead. It'll get them nowhere.

I think they hope MPs will intervene, lobby HMRC and the EFL to cut Derby more slack, perhaps they claim that the EFL's current actions are ultra vires.

It is a bit yep.

Derby 3 Bournemouth 2. Derby? 3 shots on target, one of them a penalty.

Derby 1 West Brom 0. Derby? Were somewhat dominated but 1 shot on target and a win it is! Think there was a horrible goalkeeping error by WBA in there.

Derby 2 Sheffield United 0. Derby? 2 shots on target and great goals they were too.

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