exAtyeoMax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Can Mel Morris be held to account? Prosecuted or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 11 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said: Bristol City have as good, if not better claim than Boro, considering we beat in you in the run in, pretty much ending your Playoff hopes. If you won that game, you would have finished 6th. Yes. I would suggest it’s been discussed by SL and Mr Gibson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 27 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Yes you are correct. However the sale revenue raised in this case is likely to be nominal. Most money spent will be in paying off debt. Mel Morris in no way will indemnify Derby against the claims of Boro and WWFC out of his own pocket thus an impasse is reached with the sale agreement with all party’s Agreed, and I should have said that what I described was the way things work in a 'standard' business sale - wherein you are selling a solvent, operational company. A buyer of an insolvent company will get much less in the way of promises, disclosures and indemnities. The attitude is that you're getting this company for peanuts, you know it's in a mess, deal with it. This gives the sellers a stronger position to resist the kind of indemnity that might solve the problem Derby have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: Can Mel Morris be held to account? Prosecuted or something? Apparently not by Derby fans who are way to busy calling MPs and blaming the EFL Middlesbrough and Wycombe Wanderers for the fallout from this little s*** **** actions! The one thing that would get all supporters behind Derby County supporters was if their fans groups looked into what can be done to make Morris man up to his responsibilities instead of crying it’s not fair! NO IT BLOODY WAS NOT! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said: Bristol City have as good, if not better claim than Boro, considering we beat in you in the run in, pretty much ending your Playoff hopes. If you won that game, you would have finished 6th. Anyone got Steve's home number ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, REDOXO said: Apparently not by Derby fans who are way to busy calling MPs and blaming the EFL Middlesbrough and Wycombe Wanderers for the fallout from this little s*** **** actions! The one thing that would get all supporters behind Derby County supporters was if their fans groups looked into what can be done to make Morris man up to his responsibilities instead of crying it’s not fair! NO IT BLOODY WAS NOT! why aren't they doing that then? Is he above the law or something? Edited January 18, 2022 by exAtyeoMax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said: Agreed, and I should have said that what I described was the way things work in a 'standard' business sale - wherein you are selling a solvent, operational company. A buyer of an insolvent company will get much less in the way of promises, disclosures and indemnities. The attitude is that you're getting this company for peanuts, you know it's in a mess, deal with it. This gives the sellers a stronger position to resist the kind of indemnity that might solve the problem Derby have. I should say I have experience in business sales as clearly you do. The two main issues here as I see it here are the ground. Is that somehow part of the sale/offer/s for the Football Club and the huge debt. To acquire the FC without the ground but debt of alleged 50m plus two major claims against the club would be lunacy in my view. If Mel continues to take no responsibility then I just don’t see how they survive. 9 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: why aren't they doing that then? Is he above the law or something? You would need to ask That question on the Derby Forum! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Mel Morris- A few facts? Mel is a CBE fwiw. He also appears to have donated to the Tories in 2017 although I cannot guarantee it was the same Mel Morris so let's heavily caveat that! Last but not least, he was- looks a bit laughable now no- elected to the Derby Council on a cross party basis as the business representative for Derby. https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2018/01/mel-morris-cbe-nominated-for-city-role It's a very good point by @REDOXO why are the MPs not calling on Mel Morris or criticising him at the least? His role in this whole sorry saga seems to be being overlooked by them. Edited January 18, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Just now, REDOXO said: I should say I have experience in business sales as clearly you do. The two main issues here as I see it here are the ground. Is that somehow part of the sale/offer/s for the Football Club and the huge debt. To acquire the FC without the ground but debt of alleged 50m plus two major claims against the club would be lunacy in my view. If Mel continues to take no responsibility then I just don’t see how they survive. Based on the various announcements made over the past few days, it seems as though the stadium issue has been solved behind the scenes. I don't know how taht has been dealt with, but no one is mentioning it as a problem anymore. Seemingly the only real blocker right now is the debate around whether or not the WW and Boro claims should be treated as 'Football Creditor' debt per the terms of the EFL articles of association. I agree with Derby fans that on a face value reading of the articles the claims don't currently fit the definition of 'Football Creditor'. However, I also think there is some merit in the EFL's explanation yesterday that the fact that the claims may yet crystallise into a due payment that would come under the definition of 'Football Creditor' means that there should at least be pressure on any PB to provide assurance that the potential awards can be met in the future. There are good arguments on both side IMO, and I'm glad I am just an observer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: why aren't they doing that then? Is he above the law or something? Possibly because they would have to admit they were foolish to cheer him on when they thought he had the EFL under his thumb. Perhaps it's not easy to admit you've been conned into supporting a liar and a cheat so you deflect blame onto others. I'd give an example from politics to illustrate the point but can't think of one at the moment. 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Based on the various announcements made over the past few days, it seems as though the stadium issue has been solved behind the scenes. I don't know how taht has been dealt with, but no one is mentioning it as a problem anymore. Seemingly the only real blocker right now is the debate around whether or not the WW and Boro claims should be treated as 'Football Creditor' debt per the terms of the EFL articles of association. I agree with Derby fans that on a face value reading of the articles the claims don't currently fit the definition of 'Football Creditor'. However, I also think there is some merit in the EFL's explanation yesterday that the fact that the claims may yet crystallise into a due payment that would come under the definition of 'Football Creditor' means that there should at least be pressure on any PB to provide assurance that the potential awards can be met in the future. There are good arguments on both side IMO, and I'm glad I am just an observer. Me too! However as MFC have pointed out if Derby County had not obfuscated we would all know what category of creditor Middlesbrough and Wycombe Wanderers fell in. The EFL and it’s board are hardly likely to allow Derby to get away with deliberate stonewalling to their own advantage again. That would put the tin hat on it for every other member of the league! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, chinapig said: Possibly because they would have to admit they were foolish to cheer him on when they thought he had the EFL under his thumb. Perhaps it's not easy to admit you've been conned into supporting a liar and a cheat so you deflect blame onto others. I'd give an example from politics to illustrate the point but can't think of one at the moment. Surely they weren't all conned? I get what you're saying but surely he has to be brought to account? Can the administrators do that? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Limited liability surely? Although even that notwithstanding...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Saw this on Twitter- could be an interesting listen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: Surely they weren't all conned? I get what you're saying but surely he has to be brought to account? Can the administrators do that? Anyone? Not all of course but the relative lack of rage against Morris compared to the EFL is striking. And if I were a Derby fan I'd be distinctly unimpressed by the Administrators. Hard to see how anybody can hold him to account as there is no suggestion he has broken any law. As the saying goes we are talking about law not justice. Edited January 18, 2022 by chinapig 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, chinapig said: Not all of course but the relative lack of rage against Morris compared to the EFL is striking. Fans are one thing, but the MPs are quite another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: Fans are one thing, but the MPs are quite another. is that because he is a tory donor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: is that because he is a tory donor? I say a Tory donor, as far as I can tell it was a small donation and a one off at that in 2017. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/170829/mcloughlin_patrick.htm £10k in 2017. Seems to have been a one off however, Edited January 18, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I say a Tory donor, as far as I can tell it was a small donation and a one off at that in 2017. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/170829/mcloughlin_patrick.htm £10k in 2017. Seems to have been a one off however, I guess he's got a lot of friends though… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Saw this on Twitter- could be an interesting listen. I’m all tuned in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 33 minutes ago, REDOXO said: I’m all tuned in! Beautifully simple explanations from Couhig - 'caught with their hand in the cookie jar' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Just watching the local news. Poor Derby and that dreadful efl. All the speeches from parliament - does Mel Morris get a mention - of course not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hxj said: Beautifully simple explanations from Couhig - 'caught with their hand in the cookie jar' About to listen to him now. Do you think either Gibson or Couhig have any validity to their claim? I feel Wycombe's if either is more valid but do you rate either in real terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Hxj said: Beautifully simple explanations from Couhig - 'caught with their hand in the cookie jar' Couhig. Derby needs to raise 65m as a minimum. Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 There is possibly one bit I am wondering. Is Couhig blurring the lines between criminal and civil/financial law here? He sounds vastly experienced to say the least but civil/criminal and financial law do differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Do you think either Gibson or Couhig have any validity to their claim? I feel Wycombe's if either is more valid but do you rate either in real terms? Couhig's line is - Derby cheated - Derby then went on a process of deliberate delay to ensure that no penalty was awarded in 2020/21 - therefore Wycombe went down. He also gave Quantuma a kicking as well. To paraphrase, Quantuma using Middlesbrough and Wycombe to cover their own incompetence and it will all come out in the end. Gibson's has less credence, but it still needs to be resolved. When listening to Couhig please remember he is an American lawyer so the phrasing can be unusual. Edited January 18, 2022 by Hxj 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: There is possibly one bit I am wondering. Is Couhig blurring the lines between criminal and civil/financial law here? He sounds vastly experienced to say the least but civil/criminal and financial law do differ. There is more than likely more than one case here! Couhig was excellent. Kept his head, kept on point, brought in Mel Morris’ part in this and gave the interviewer nowhere To go other than ‘the heart strings’ approach. The administrators have been shown to be wrong at every turn, there are no preferred bidders or it seems no agreements with any creditor on what emergence may look like. Couhig obviously feels he and Gibson are the Scapegoats not only for Derby County supporters but the administrators and now dumb **** MPs out for a cheap vote win. Edited January 18, 2022 by REDOXO 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Although another twist- seems Derby can't be that badly off if they're turning down bids...£450k I believe this one for Sibley was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeneys Penalties Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Although another twist- seems Derby can't be that badly off if they're turning down bids...£450k I believe this one for Sibley was. wonder what tune Derby will be singing on 31.1.22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said: wonder what tune Derby will be singing on 31.1.22 They also if they haven't already, need to submit 5 years worth of accounts by 4pm on that day to the EFL not that it is mentioned anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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