downendcity Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 51 minutes ago, Davefevs said: If I was the EFL I’d say, look at Bristol City, they had to play: Ryley Towler, Sam Bell, Alex Scott, Louis Britton, Tommy Conway, Sam Pearson, Opi Edwards, Owura Edwards, Saikou Janneh, James Morton, whilst Harvey Wiles-Richards and Zac Smith made the bench….several of those all featured in many squads. They had to deal with Covid too….maybe you should have been more careful. Get on with it, stop bleating. Don't forget we also had to play Famara! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 17 hours ago, WarksRobin said: The embargo does allow them to make signings but limits apply to contract lengths and fees that can be paid. They can put a team together but it will be weaker under the embargo. Sounds fair to me given their past behaviour that caused the embargo to be imposed. probably would've been better for them if they had been relegated… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Sadly they will be allowed to 'staff up'- albeit under very strict conditions. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57902385 Salary limit imposed per individual, only 1 year for permanent and half a year for loanees- closely monitored by the EFL. Although how can you sign players of any kind ie take on an additional cost when a) There is an outstanding HMRC issue and b) No Accounts for 2 years! Quote In addition, the four separate reasons for Derby's transfer embargo being imposed in the first place still remain. Until that situation changes, the embargo will stay. They can sign players but the Embargo and reasons for it remain? Poor reporting in some ways. That club, from top to bottom- have to wonder everything- one even wonders about Mel's so called ill-health in February that was reported. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 EFL to Derby :ok this is your last chance Fast forward. EFL to Derby: That was your penultimate chance but this your last chance. Fastt fiward. EFL to Derby : Those were your penultimate chances but this your last chance. Rinse and repeat. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 I do suggest fans email the EFL in disgust tbh, seems that slight leniency once more unwarranted... enquiries@efl.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! I can't imagine that Parry would bend the knee to please a celebrity manager. Would he? I have on occasion been told I am too hard on the EFL but I'm afraid the evidence keeps reinforcing my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, chinapig said: I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! I can't imagine that Parry would bend the knee to please a celebrity manager. Would he? I have on occasion been told I am too hard on the EFL but I'm afraid the evidence keeps reinforcing my view. Or to give them their full title Wayne Rooney’s Derby County's EFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 This should be a bit of a watershed- fans of clubs should enmasse email the EFL, those compliant clubs and those who were punished- granted those they can sign are of limited wage and limited number and the case is still ongoing, but I'd like to see fans really let the EFL know, mass email campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 I wonder if we are approaching a tipping point when it comes to FFP. Unless the so -called fan led review mandates a Board with a majority of independent non-Executives with extensive powers , which I doubt, and given the current regime's continuing spinelessness, I suspect enough influential Championship clubs will want to weaken the rules even further. At which point FFP will become even more of a pretence than it is now, assuming it doesn't wither altogether. Let's face it, Steve Gibson is the only owner to stick his head above the parapet. Our owner has maintained radio silence on the other hand. My money's on the bad guys winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, chinapig said: I wonder if we are approaching a tipping point when it comes to FFP. Unless the so -called fan led review mandates a Board with a majority of independent non-Executives with extensive powers , which I doubt, and given the current regime's continuing spinelessness, I suspect enough influential Championship clubs will want to weaken the rules even further. At which point FFP will become even more of a pretence than it is now, assuming it doesn't wither altogether. Let's face it, Steve Gibson is the only owner to stick his head above the parapet. Our owner has maintained radio silence on the other hand. My money's on the bad guys winning. That's the odd thing however- just the other week, or a few weeks back clubs voted to a) Stop the Stadium Loophole moving forward b) To publish Embargoes and reasons for these c) To tighten the regulations. Doesn't really feel like the direction of travel is for a loosening at this stage. Plus Gibson's CEO is one of the new Club Directors- Forest- another Club who are within FFP and shock horror Risdale are the others, but he is quite pro FFP by dint of Preston. Derby fans are still complaining that the EFL have it in for them etc, in some cases. I wonder if there should be a mass email campaign by fans of a majority of Championship Clubs to the EFL. I don't remember the perpetual whining by Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham fans, yes there was kickback but not like this- they really are as far as a decent proportion goes, a fairly despicable fanbase with a Scumbag of an Owner- CEO also scum as are their Auditor mates- with a strong sense of entitlement Derby. My hatred of them aside, it seems that they are allowed to sign up to 5 players, within strict wage limits and probably free/loan. Free Transfer=Contract not above 1 year, Loan=Contract not above 6 months. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: This should be a bit of a watershed- fans of clubs should enmasse email the EFL, those compliant clubs and those who were punished- granted those they can sign are of limited wage and limited number and the case is still ongoing, but I'd like to see fans really let the EFL know, mass email campaign. That presupposes they give a toss what fans think. We know what our club's owner thinks of us for instance and he is one of the relative good guys. There has been much talk for instance about how important fans are recently following the Super League scandal but does anybody believe there will be anything but cosmetic changes? Edited July 20, 2021 by chinapig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, chinapig said: That presupposes they give a toss what fans think. We know what our club's owner thinks of us for instance and he is one of the relative good guys. There has been much talk for about how important fans are recently following the Super League scandal but does anybody believe there will be anything but cosmetic changes? Stadium Sale profit ban is quite positive. Embargo Reporting Service ie the transparency surrounding Embargoes, that is a good start, maybe club fans should lobby their Clubs enmasse which in turn could feed into the EFL. On a sidenote, people say "Oh think about the fans" when it comes to clubs being punished, "It's not fair on the fans"- but Derby have a weird mix of aggression, arrogance, entitlement and ignorance in their fanbase on these matters at least- I say in this instance bollocks to the fans, **** the fans- deserve all they get a decent number of their fanbase. I reiterate, I don't recall Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday being so objectionable for so long, from a fans perspective. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: That's the odd thing however- just the other week, or a few weeks back clubs voted to a) Stop the Stadium Loophole moving forward b) To publish Embargoes and reasons for these c) To tighten the regulations. Doesn't really feel like the direction of travel is for a loosening at this stage. Plus Gibson's CEO is one of the new Club Directors- Forest- another Club who are within FFP and shock horror Risdale are the others, but he is quite pro FFP by dint of Preston. Derby fans are still complaining that the EFL have it in for them etc, in some cases. I wonder if there should be a mass email campaign by fans of a majority of Championship Clubs to the EFL. I don't remember the perpetual whining by Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham fans, yes there was kickback but not like this- they really are as far as a decent proportion goes, a fairly despicable fanbase with a Scumbag of an Owner- CEO also scum as are their Auditor mates- with a strong sense of entitlement Derby. You can write all the rules you want but the issue is one of enforcement. If the EFL backs down as it has here, if disciplinary bodies come up with weak sanctions and/or appellate bodies reduce sanctions, as they did with Sheff Wed despite their egregious offences, and if other clubs just stand by, the rules fall into disrepute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, chinapig said: You can write all the rules you want but the issue is one of enforcement. If the EFL backs down as it has here, if disciplinary bodies come up with weak sanctions and/or appellate bodies reduce sanctions, as they did with Sheff Wed despite their egregious offences, and if other clubs just stand by, the rules fall into disrepute. EFL have Regulation 16.20 at their disposal which needs minimal criteria to invoke- that compels a Club to stick to a budget until such time as the EFL are satisfied. That Stadium Sale loophole isn't coming back- a Club can do it but it simply won't count for FFP- good example. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Their fans, I dunno Trump and Shane Warne would be proud of some of the spin by Mel and their fans are like followers of a weird cult in places- they're uniquely objectionable some of them. Take a look at this joker- G Star Ram- the Star bit is ironic with his logic but... https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-2156692 https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-2156856 https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-2156871 https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-2156912 https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-2156932 https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-2156958 https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37683-please-don’t-blame-morris-and-pearce/?do=findComment&comment=2156986 Well I can't print screen and on other matters maybe he's more balanced but he seems to know better than the Independent Expert and LAP. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Stadium Sale profit ban is quite positive. Embargo Reporting Service ie the transparency surrounding Embargoes, that is a good start, maybe club fans should lobby their Clubs enmasse which in turn could feed into the EFL. On a sidenote, people say "Oh think about the fans" when it comes to clubs being punished, "It's not fair on the fans"- but Derby have a weird mix of aggression, arrogance, entitlement and ignorance in their fanbase on these matters at least- I say in this instance bollocks to the fans, **** the fans- deserve all they get a decent number of their fanbase. I reiterate, I don't recall Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday being so objectionable for so long, from a fans perspective. The stadium sale loophole, mysteriously appearing with nobody seeming to notice, has served its purpose. The clubs who wanted it got what they wanted, perhaps encouraged by the former EFL CEO, so the stable door has been shut after the horse has bolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, chinapig said: The stadium sale loophole, mysteriously appearing with nobody seeming to notice, has served its purpose. The clubs who wanted it got what they wanted, perhaps encouraged by the former EFL CEO, so the stable door has been shut after the horse has bolted. Was in the PL rules at the time the EFL took on the PL FFP Regs. Goes against UEFA's of course...the old ones adjusted it (Profit or Loss) out, as indeed for all Tangible Fixed Asset sales. Perhaps the PL wanted it- or perhaps nobody noticed...until such time as the loophole was required. I'd also like to see Training Ground Sale and Leaseback get the same treatment btw and perhaps other Tangible Fixed Assets but these are the big 2 for Football Clubs. Is a shame that their Auditors aren't being probed more closely as well- not by the EFL but by those that matter in that respect. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: EFL have Regulation 16.20 at their disposal which needs minimal criteria to invoke- that compels a Club to stick to a budget until such time as the EFL are satisfied. Again, the question is less what regulations they have at their disposal but whether they apply them without fear or favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Just now, chinapig said: Again, the question is less what regulations they have at their disposal but whether they apply them without fear or favour. This could be similar to Derby's one if there are wage limits, player limits and contractual length limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 I know I'll get slated for this, but I have some sympathy for Derby on the player position. The club still has a mountain of debt and no one wants to own them. Whilst they can sign players, they are limited and start their campaign in 18 days time, and haven't signed anyone yet. Plus of course we are still awaiting the FFP position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 So the EFL punish Derby because they broke the rules (and I'm sure some would say they got off lightly) and then reduce that punishment because Derby don't like it. Then impose new, lenient, conditions.....wonder how long those conditions will last. Great message to send all the other teams. The EFL everyone. The Borris Johnson of the football world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Hxj said: I know I'll get slated for this, but I have some sympathy for Derby on the player position. The club still has a mountain of debt and no one wants to own them. Whilst they can sign players, they are limited and start their campaign in 18 days time, and haven't signed anyone yet. Plus of course we are still awaiting the FFP position. All of which is a consequence of multiple breaches of the rules. They knew what they were doing and what the sanctions were so I don't see much cause for sympathy. Any more than I would expect any if ,say, I knowingly break traffic law and have my right to drive suspended. But the EFL has predictably rowed back so it's a bit academic now. Edited July 20, 2021 by chinapig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said: So the EFL punish Derby because they broke the rules (and I'm sure some would say they got off lightly) and then reduce that punishment because Derby don't like it. Then impose new, lenient, conditions.....wonder how long those conditions will last. Great message to send all the other teams. The EFL everyone. The Borris Johnson of the football world. Yes but, you know, Wayne Rooney and stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Hxj said: I know I'll get slated for this, but I have some sympathy for Derby on the player position. The club still has a mountain of debt and no one wants to own them. Whilst they can sign players, they are limited and start their campaign in 18 days time, and haven't signed anyone yet. Plus of course we are still awaiting the FFP position. While I agree with parts of this, when new and beefed up punishments are agreed by Clubs they have to stick. The debt, that reminds me. Has Keogh been paid yet? Not expecting anyone but the relevant parties will know but would/could that not be classed as a football debt? Football debt should mean a Hard ie Full embargo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: While I agree with parts of this, when new and beefed up punishments are agreed by Clubs they have to stick. I look at say Northampton and Derby as far as playing matches go and in the particular circumstances feel that justice is best served by the current outcome. 8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Has Keogh been paid yet? could that not be classed as a football debt? Football debt should mean a Hard ie Full embargo. I have no doubts that Keogh's payment was a football debt, it was awarded by a Football Tribunal. Any part due by now has therefore been paid. Derby are already on a hard embargo, it's just the terms of the embargo that now cause angst. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 11 hours ago, chinapig said: All of which is a consequence of multiple breaches of the rules. They knew what they were doing and what the sanctions were so I don't see much cause for sympathy. Any more than I would expect any if ,say, I knowingly break traffic law and have my right to drive suspended. So have you handed your driving licence back as I doubt you have not committed at least 4 speeding offences in the last three years. Or do you mean - if I didn't get caught it doesn't count? The 'players of professional standing position' is as a direct result of playing an FA Cup match whereas Northampton were not required to play their league matches. To me natural justice requires an intelligent nuanced approach to punishment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Hxj said: So have you handed your driving licence back as I doubt you have not committed at least 4 speeding offences in the last three years. Or do you mean - if I didn't get caught it doesn't count? The 'players of professional standing position' is as a direct result of playing an FA Cup match whereas Northampton were not required to play their league matches. To me natural justice requires an intelligent nuanced approach to punishment. I chose to stop driving a few years ago because of disability but before that I'm afraid I was one of those irritating drivers who stuck to the speed limit! And for your equivalence to apply Derby would have to have shopped themselves to the EFL. Though I suspect I am missing your point. You could certainly have nuance if discretion is written into the regulations. This would tend I think to lead to (more) inconsistency in decision making. If club A is given some discretionary leeway then clubs B-Z will inevitably demand the same, justified or not. Probably dragging out the process still further. Apropos of which, sort of, Man City are still under investigation by the PL having just had an attempt to halt the process rejected by the Court of Appeal. Like Derby they tried refusing to provide evidence and put off the day of judgement. Since the investigation began City have been champions twice! Still, you have sympathy for Derby and I don't so I doubt we will agree any time soon but the debate is always interesting, thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, chinapig said: I chose to stop driving a few years ago because of disability but before that I'm afraid I was one of those irritating drivers who stuck to the speed limit! And for your equivalence to apply Derby would have to have shopped themselves to the EFL. Though I suspect I am missing your point. You could certainly have nuance if discretion is written into the regulations. This would tend I think to lead to (more) inconsistency in decision making. If club A is given some discretionary leeway then clubs B-Z will inevitably demand the same, justified or not. Probably dragging out the process still further. Apropos of which, sort of, Man City are still under investigation by the PL having just had an attempt to halt the process rejected by the Court of Appeal. Like Derby they tried refusing to provide evidence and put off the day of judgement. Since the investigation began City have been champions twice! Still, you have sympathy for Derby and I don't so I doubt we will agree any time soon but the debate is always interesting, thanks. Just googled that and seen it- wonder if that could see a UEFA case reopened or fresh charges materialise there if it sticks at PL level. Surely if under Investigation for alleged breaches, an Embargo can be slapped on by the PL as it can at our level- the Rules are in theory the same after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Just googled that and seen it- wonder if that could see a UEFA case reopened or fresh charges materialise there if it sticks at PL level. Surely if under Investigation for alleged breaches, an Embargo can be slapped on by the PL as it can at our level- the Rules are in theory the same after all. In the UEFA case CAS ruled that some charges were unproven and others time barred. Not exactly a not guilty verdict but I doubt the case will be revived. And I just don't see the PL using sanctions against any of the big clubs as they are the ones who bring in the big TV money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.