Hxj Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: If Derby miss the 4pm 31st January deadline for accounts to the EFL, do you think further trouble may follow? Undoubtedly but in the current scheme of things it won’t make much difference - I simply can’t see a solution where Derby County survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I suppose what @ExiledAjaxsays is true, no obligation on Derby/Quantuma to accept derisory bids as can argue in best interest of creditors not to etc. At the same time though, can see other clubs definitely lodging complaints over it as appears to be the case. To clarify, I think it would be fine to reject reasonable market value offers as well. An offer doesn't need to be derisory to justify rejection (at this stage of the window). It's a smart tactic from prospective purchasers to put the EFL and national press on notice about these offers. That puts public pressure on Quantuma to eventually accept some sort of offer. All fair in love and war. Edited January 10, 2022 by ExiledAjax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: To clarify, I think it would be fine to reject reasonable market value offers as well. An offer doesn't need to be derisory to justify rejection (at this stage of the window). It's a smart tactic from prospective purchasers to put the EFL and national press on notice about these offers. That puts public pressure on Quantuma to eventually accept some sort of offer. All fair in love and war. Yep, is it any different to a big club offering a lesser club’s player a high wage to unsettle him? Derby are in a weak position, people will take advantage…and rightly so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hxj said: Undoubtedly but in the current scheme of things it won’t make much difference - I simply can’t see a solution where Derby County survive. Agree that further backsliding should lead to further measures, though not so sure that when push comes to shove they will go pop- I can imagine local MPs lobbying for some kind of if not reduction then say 25 year repayment plan type thing- that's a number I've seen suggested on Twitter, 25 years to get it all repaid. As to the June orders- updated of course- the issue seems to have totally fallen off the agenda, hopefully the EFL still have their eye on the ball however. 26.1 and 26.2 i) and ii) That is therefore 3 years if not 5 of restated accounts to the EFL by the end of the month and then last seasons accounts to the EFL and published on their site if still in administration or generally published, about 2 months later- presumably they'll be expected to file the P&S submissions for 2021/22 on time as well. Wonder if the accounts will show the rental part of the stadium transaction- hopefully something the EFL still have in mind. Edited January 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Firstly the latest update from the Supporters trust is in very long, in short it says: There are no material changes in the situation since our last meeting. They also now don't rule out sales and are suggesting that the 'Preferred Bidder' is being asked to part fund the club. Neither are good signs for the club. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Hxj said: Firstly the latest update from the Supporters trust is in very long, in short it says: There are no material changes in the situation since our last meeting. They also now don't rule out sales and are suggesting that the 'Preferred Bidder' is being asked to part fund the club. Neither are good signs for the club. They seem to be getting excited that Bristol Street Motors has become an "official partner" (sponsor in plain English). I'm not sure that means the end of their troubles though. Edited January 11, 2022 by chinapig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, chinapig said: They seem to be getting excited that Bristol Street Motors has become an "official partner" (sponsor in plain English). I'm not sure that means the end of their troubles though. And that their game with Hull is now on Sky, apparently that nets them 100 grand and has allowed them to reject bids for Buchanan...so many straws being clutched by so many people. Edited January 11, 2022 by ExiledAjax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Not sure if this is old news or not? I like Kirchner’s style in a weird way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 40 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Not sure if this is old news or not? I like Kirchner’s style in a weird way! Interesting, I guess it shows the complexity here. No one wants to stump up money for a basket case club, pay off all that HMRC debt (even if over a number of years), take on the risk of paying Boro and Wycombe money...and then still pay rent to the bloke who cocked it all up in the first place. So the stadium needs to form part of the packet. But that means that Morris still has the final say on a deal, or at least a hell of a lot of influence. Quantuma don't have power to compel him to sell just because they've got a good deal for the creditors. 1 minute ago, billywedlock said: Morris is the only person taking you to liquidation . Yet he will sit back on millions . This is it isn't it. It's not "Gibbo", bad administrators, time wasting Yanks, or even famed insolvency expert Wayne Rooney who are delaying things. It's Morris, the same guy who tore the structure of their club apart, saddled everything with debt, and employed bad accounting practices to finally seal the deal. 1 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Should Derby be liquidated and their record this season be expunged, there are a few others in the bottom half who’d lose their 3 points likes us. we’d still be well clear of Peterborough in the highest relegation spot, although we would drop to 16th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Not sure if this is old news or not? I like Kirchner’s style in a weird way! Trouble is Administrations don't work like that. MSD have security against all the assets of all the companies both in the 'Football Group' and the 'Stadium Group'. So if MSD are owed £20 million and Kirchner pays £20 million to buy the Stadium company from the immediate parent and that money is used to repay the MSD loan then MSD cannot recover the debt in the Administration. If Kirchner paid £1 million in the same way and with the same outcome, MSD would be entitled to the first £19 million of cash available for distribution in the Administration as the secured creditor. Morris only loses out if he has a personal guarantee in respect of the loan and less than £20 million is received by MSD from all sources. There's no evidence that Morris has a personal guarantee, a lot of another forum think that he owns the stadium personally, he doesn't. He owns the company which owns the company which owns the stadium. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, chinapig said: They seem to be getting excited that Bristol Street Motors has become an "official partner" Maybe they are looking for a nice brownfield site to consolidate all their local dealerships into? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 42 minutes ago, Hxj said: Trouble is Administrations don't work like that. MSD have security against all the assets of all the companies both in the 'Football Group' and the 'Stadium Group'. So if MSD are owed £20 million and Kirchner pays £20 million to buy the Stadium company from the immediate parent and that money is used to repay the MSD loan then MSD cannot recover the debt in the Administration. If Kirchner paid £1 million in the same way and with the same outcome, MSD would be entitled to the first £19 million of cash available for distribution in the Administration as the secured creditor. Morris only loses out if he has a personal guarantee in respect of the loan and less than £20 million is received by MSD from all sources. There's no evidence that Morris has a personal guarantee, a lot of another forum think that he owns the stadium personally, he doesn't. He owns the company which owns the company which owns the stadium. Is that why MSD did what they did then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 MSD run a very 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Is that why MSD did what they did then? Yep. Tie the security down hard. If the client pays you get paid, if the client doesn't pay you get paid. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Interesting bit by Simon Jordan today. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-simon-jordan-middlesbrough-6474071 Speaks if a feeling that - 21 isn't enough among other EFL clubs as Derby (like everyone else in a sense I presume) took advantage of the exemptions and allowances during Covid for tax etc- and then went into administration as we were approaching a return to more normal business conditions entered administration! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Interesting bit by Simon Jordan today. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-simon-jordan-middlesbrough-6474071 Speaks if a feeling that - 21 isn't enough among other EFL clubs as Derby (like everyone else in a sense I presume) took advantage of the exemptions and allowances during Covid for tax etc- and then went into administration as we were approaching a return to more normal business conditions entered administration! Yes, interesting view isn’t it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Yes, interesting view isn’t it. It is. Not one that I'd given much thought to but the Clubs who have done, are doing the right thing even if delayed due to Covid would rightly be aggrieved. Think he might be conflating two issues a bit though. Would also add, I am surprised that the claims are still live tbh. Assumed that they might be using it as leverage to keep the pressure on the EFL to uphold their position on administration and P&S breaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Might ask @ExiledAjax and @Hxj As per Jim Wheeler of RamsTrust, Derby or Derbyshire council unsure which would never permit a change of use. Does this in some ways make the security for MSD null and void? It's not a surprise that the council would take such a stance in any case IMO. Would try to find the quotes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) The Simon Jordan bit I assume- did a bit of searching myself and about to listen but seems to be 17:00 onwards on this section. https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1641895200/1641900600/ Found a nice little Tweet from Mike Thornton around the time of points deduction- few may remember him, he posted some very informative FFP stuff when Leeds were at this level. Had they taken the hit in 2021/22, could the outcome have been better? Wycombe wouldn't be pushing any kind of claim for one. Edited January 12, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Out of edit time but obvs mean 2020/21. Derby drop, no objections by Couhig and probably the EFL and other clubs hackles a lot less raised as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Mike posted some very good stuff on Villa at the time too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: As per Jim Wheeler of RamsTrust, Derby or Derbyshire council unsure which would never permit a change of use. Does this in some ways make the security for MSD null and void? Assuming any proposed use required a planning application, any refusal to grant can be appealed to the Planning Inspectorate, so any statement by the local council is irrelevant. It would also be potential grounds for a Judicial Review on the basis that the local authority have prejudged the issue without any regards to the facts of any proposal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyClapper Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 59 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Not a great deal of sympathy from twitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, HappyClapper said: Not a great deal of sympathy from twitter. And there won't be much sympathy from DCFCfans either. Dangerous stuff admitting that Derby broke FFP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) Their fans did pay off St John's Ambulance I believe so credit where it is due for that- and I say that as one of Derby's harsher critics let's say. Credit to the FANS not the CLUB that is. Edited January 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Davefevs said: a bit heavy on the emotional blackmail regarding Wycombe and Boro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Famed insolvency practitioner and part-time football manager Wayne Rooney has again faced the press ahead of Derby's match against Sheffield United. News tomorrow apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 12/01/2022 at 10:17, Hxj said: Assuming any proposed use required a planning application, any refusal to grant can be appealed to the Planning Inspectorate, so any statement by the local council is irrelevant. It would also be potential grounds for a Judicial Review on the basis that the local authority have prejudged the issue without any regards to the facts of any proposal. One imagines the existing Use Case consent to be Sui Generis ( football, training, medical, conference, admin, educational, entertainment, retail et al.) In which case that expires once application is made (essentially saying the infrastructure no longer matches the existing Use Case consent.) For those implying change might be to B2/8, C3 etc then there could be a big impairment in value in respect of CIL & S106. Whilst Derby Council could 'help out' by dropping S106 fees, CIl is fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Famed insolvency practitioner and part-time football manager Wayne Rooney has again faced the press ahead of Derby's match against Sheffield United. News tomorrow apparently. Rooney will end up being the owner. He is waiting for Rebecca Vardy to break the news to him. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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