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Derby Deserve Relegation; Are the Football League going to bungle this one too?


havanatopia
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43 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Presumably Derby/Admins failed to prove to the EFL that they have the funds to see out the season whilst also extending Jagielka. 

As we discussed months ago as the thin squad gets thinner so relegation looms larger.

Some people still don’t get it to they?  The EFL are applying the rules.

Re player sales (not contract extensions), I can see why a couple of teams put in low bids, because they can see good possibility that Derby will get wound up, player contracts become null and void, and the players become available outside of the window for zilch…so why not try a silly offer now.  When Bury went under, their players were allowed to register outside the window.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was waiting for this event.  They are on their arse.

Same. Quantuma update later today apparently, can't imagine it's going to be particularly good.

Wonder what famed insolvency practitioner Wayne Rooney is thinking now? Could he be next to leave? Should be able to get himself a nice job at Quantuma given his extensive knowledge of restructuring and insolvency practice.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Some people still don’t get it to they?  The EFL are applying the rules.

A speculation post.

I suspect what has happened is that Quantuma have interpreted the EFL's budget in one manner, and had decided yesterday that they could satisfy it for the season. They told Rooney this, and began sorting out extensions for the likes of Jagielka.

They've popped down to EFL HQ yesterday and the EFL have looked over the budget, and told them that actually X should include A and B, or that Z can't actually be excluded. These things mean that the budget Quantuma drew up is wrong.

Quantuma then have to go back and say that actually Jags has to go, oh and also we need to sell some players asap unless you want us liquidated now.

As for any bidders - those bids were probably made on the basis that the EFL would approve the budget for the remainder of the season, so they will need to be revised as well.

So whilst I expect that yes, the EFL are 'applying the rules', they may be applying them in a way that is slightly different to how Quantuma expect they might be applied - or even have even been previously told they would be applied.

All just cock ups of communication and the like, but I've seen it happen with clients and regulators (for the purposes of this sentence the EFL is a 'regulator') more often than you'd believe.

I have personally had one employee of Companies House tell me one procedure is correct, I followed that procedure, then a week later went back to Companies House and spoke to a different employee (the first was now on holiday) who told me there were some other steps that were required. That was a shitty chat with my boss and generally a crap day for me, and all because CH 'moved the goalposts'.

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28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was waiting for this event.  They are on their arse.

Wonder if it was renew on limited terms, or renew on the same terms, or was it a case of well, we can't renew you because we have no money. And worse than that, we are now under a new embargo.

Guess Ashley is watching this play out and lowering his offer by the minute.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Is that really true, or just how a “payment plan” might work?

Sounds like a load of baloney to me.  Just doesn't sound right.

However even those figures, and paying off MSD, will require someone to put in at least £40 million, probably a lot more.

Edited by Hxj
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@Davefevs @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous

Not sure how much to believe the below post from DCFC Forum. Tallies a little with what I said earlier, that Quantuma thought they fitted into the budget, and the EFL brought new items in.

Personally, I am surprised that Derby/Quantuma cannot source some insurance to cover the Wycombe and Boro claims. Maybe currently they can't, but if it's such a stumbling block then any bidder should be asked to pay for some insurance to cover the possibility of those claims being successful. If they are as confident as they say they are that the claims would fail, then surely paying a couple of million in an insurance premium is worth it. Litigation insurance isn't my expertise, but I recall previous clients obtaining this kind of thing when in insolvency.

image.thumb.png.ca2a260151dd0be8d5b468a9ac823960.png

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6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Davefevs @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous

Not sure how much to believe the below post from DCFC Forum. Tallies a little with what I said earlier, that Quantuma thought they fitted into the budget, and the EFL brought new items in.

Personally, I am surprised that Derby/Quantuma cannot source some insurance to cover the Wycombe and Boro claims. Maybe currently they can't, but if it's such a stumbling block then any bidder should be asked to pay for some insurance to cover the possibility of those claims being successful. If they are as confident as they say they are that the claims would fail, then surely paying a couple of million in an insurance premium is worth it. Litigation insurance isn't my expertise, but I recall previous clients obtaining this kind of thing when in insolvency.

image.thumb.png.ca2a260151dd0be8d5b468a9ac823960.png

That post I think is fan fiction and just follows the narrative that the efl have it in for Derby and its all one big conspiracy theory,

It isn't 

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7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Davefevs @Hxj @Mr Popodopolous

Not sure how much to believe the below post from DCFC Forum. Tallies a little with what I said earlier, that Quantuma thought they fitted into the budget, and the EFL brought new items in.

Personally, I am surprised that Derby/Quantuma cannot source some insurance to cover the Wycombe and Boro claims. Maybe currently they can't, but if it's such a stumbling block then any bidder should be asked to pay for some insurance to cover the possibility of those claims being successful. If they are as confident as they say they are that the claims would fail, then surely paying a couple of million in an insurance premium is worth it. Litigation insurance isn't my expertise, but I recall previous clients obtaining this kind of thing when in insolvency.

image.thumb.png.ca2a260151dd0be8d5b468a9ac823960.png

Interesting!

I guess one view is - you (MM’s Derby) took the piss in the first place, then MM placed you into Admin when he could’ve continued to fund it….we are getting our own back!

Im sure it’s not anywhere near as black and white as I make it above, but it shows how maintaining a good relationship can be key, Derby have not played ball at any point.

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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

That post I think is fan fiction and just follows the narrative that the efl have it in for Derby and its all one big conspiracy theory,

It isn't 

Yeh, this guy could easily be one of the less reliable posters on Derby's forum. 

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Indeed where it falls down is the fact they owe money to the Crown, 

No doubt a problem yes, but Derby/Quantuma are more likely to get a payment plan out of HMRC than out of Boro or Wycombe. Also, the HMRC debt is a known and fixed quantity, so bidders have certainty over the debt they are taking on, and how it will be settled.

On the other hand, whilst Boro and Wycombe's claims may be for a certain sum, there's no guarantee regarding the costs for defending them, or the time it takes, or what might eventually be ordered as payment. It's that uncertainty that, in my opinion, makes those claims the bigger problem.

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7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No doubt a problem yes, but Derby/Quantuma are more likely to get a payment plan out of HMRC than out of Boro or Wycombe. Also, the HMRC debt is a known and fixed quantity, so bidders have certainty over the debt they are taking on, and how it will be settled.

On the other hand, whilst Boro and Wycombe's claims may be for a certain sum, there's no guarantee regarding the costs for defending them, or the time it takes, or what might eventually be ordered as payment. It's that uncertainty that, in my opinion, makes those claims the bigger problem.

The only way Wycombe and boro go away is if Derby are liquidated and a phonex club is formed,

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5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If Derby disappeared before the end of the season, would it still be 3 going down? 

I'm guessing it would.

And we'd also lose the 3 points gained in beating them.

All of which would drop us right in the mire. 

It would see 2 clubs relegated, Bury in L1 in 2019 is the precedent here.

Think Barnsley, Peterborough & Reading are all likely to finish well below us anyway.

Derby’s results this season have been a mixed bag but Barnsley (1 of just 2 wins) & Peterborough have beaten them as well, so in this highly unlikely event, it is fairly neutral.

Edited by GrahamC
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4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If Derby disappeared before the end of the season, would it still be 3 going down? 

I'm guessing it would.

And we'd also lose the 3 points gained in beating them.

All of which would drop us right in the mire. 

Would be ones less team relegated from each division. The same number as normal still go up from the division below. 

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6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If Derby disappeared before the end of the season, would it still be 3 going down? 

I'm guessing it would.

And we'd also lose the 3 points gained in beating them.

All of which would drop us right in the mire. 

It would be 2

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2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Phew thanks that's what I wanted to hear. Makes sense when you stop panicking and think about it for a second.

And relax!

And Derby f!k off.

I think a far more likely scenario for them is the one we faced in 81/2, the league make them get rid of any experienced players as contracts expire & they end up playing kids.

People forget this but we were (from memory) 14th when this happened, picked up 2 draws in our next 11 games & went down as a result.

They’re buggered, either way.

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