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Derby Deserve Relegation; Are the Football League going to bungle this one too?


havanatopia
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1 hour ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Decent money isn't £500k.

Stuck on a scholarship contract as a professional contract would have meant he was unavailable for the first team. Crazy rules. It basically left the club with the choice of accepting an offer now or letting it go to tribunal.

That takes us to 6 youngsters who have left to join Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea over the past 3 seasons for a combined £3m.

I didn't realise until HXJ pointed out about the situation re registrations should you go under. He'd automatically be a free agent on those terms, don't know about your other kids sold,  but worrying for you if it reeks of them going as the administrators ensure they maximize all returns come worst case.

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35 minutes ago, SBB said:

That’s actually quite sad, I have to say. Being able to develop and possibly sell homegrown players is huge for clubs like ours. All the early years investment without reaping the rewards of first team appearances and or decent transfer fees. 

We’ve lost players over the years too, Herbie Kane, Jacob Maddox, etc.

Edited by Davefevs
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5 hours ago, Hxj said:

No - they can be remarkably flexible in the right circumstances.

I assume the payment scheme would be part of a CVA, so similar to an IVA for an individual, where monies in and out are strictly controlled for the period of the CVA?

Edited by Ska Junkie
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1 hour ago, Hxj said:

It's rare to see a CVA continue beyond any initial payment due to the nature of a corporate entity.  

I'm not sure of the breakdown of that owed HMRC , I assume it mostly VAT, though is it not still the case that if income tax / NI has been deducted at source but not paid over that the individual remains liable in those sums?

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22 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I'm not sure of the breakdown of that owed HMRC , I assume it mostly VAT, though is it not still the case that if income tax / NI has been deducted at source but not paid over that the individual remains liable in those sums?

It's second preferential debt, so that will be PAYE/Employees' NIC and VAT.  Given the known circumstances it will be nearly impossible for HMRC to recover anything off anyone else

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2 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

5th

6 minutes ago, Hxj said:

And a fifth: Confirmed: Derby County announce midfielder transfer - Derbyshire Live (derbytelegraph.co.uk) - Although I would count that as a 'Britton' type deal

Plus meetings with EFL called off due to positive progress.

6th

Marshall, Baldock, Jagielka and Shinnie are the others.

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25 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Administrators have received at least 1 official bid which meets the requirements set by the EFL.
Previous offers on the table were conditional upon the Boro/Wycombe claims being ignored.

Thanks, so the Carlisle Capital bid I assume.

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37 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Thanks, so the Carlisle Capital bid I assume.

Maybe Ashley. Tbf, I've googled and whilst I can see the EFL statement about postponing the meeting and the positive developments, this is the closest I can fid to evidence that those developments constitute an 'official bid which meets the requirements set by the EFL'.

@AnotherDerbyFan do you have a source for that?

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11 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Anyone else think the sale will go through next Monday and Derby will then be given `special dispensation` to sign players outside of the window?

Yes to first bit, no to the second bit.  

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35 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Anyone else think the sale will go through next Monday and Derby will then be given `special dispensation` to sign players outside of the window?

No to the first bit - if it's by way of a CVA then they still need to complete that process.

As regards the second bit they already can - might need to dispose of one or two first though!

From EFL Official Website - Embargoes + Embargo Reporting Service – Q&A External

Under what circumstances can a Club operating under an Embargo sign players?

Outside of a Transfer Window

Outside of a transfer window, Clubs can only register Out of Registration players (free agents) and Clubs can only register Out of Registration players if they have less than 16 players of Professional Standing (2x Goalkeepers, 14x Outfield Players)

Professional Standing = is any Player who has made one first team appearance (including as a sub) for any Club in any first team competition (EFL Trophy appearances do not count).

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On 22/01/2022 at 00:59, Ska Junkie said:

I assume the payment scheme would be part of a CVA

I've thought of another problem with this.  It would amount to arrears of PAYE under the current EFL regulations, and therefore an Embargo for as long as any debt is outstanding!

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Suppose the other thing any potential buyer needs to consider is next season and beyond.

What is Championship football worth? 4mill in TV and solidarity, probably another 4 or 5 thousand on attendance per game based on a larger home/away following and higher sponsorship and corporate revenue.

Looks like Derby are going down and we know League One isn't easy to get out of, so if they have any players under contract with no relegation clause, it could be an expensive few seasons.

If they stay up, maybe there is value in owning them.

It's a gamble 

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1 hour ago, Hxj said:

I've thought of another problem with this.  It would amount to arrears of PAYE under the current EFL regulations, and therefore an Embargo for as long as any debt is outstanding!

My thoughts are that they are already in breach of that if they haven’t paid NI and IT…or is it all VAT?

37 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Suppose the other thing any potential buyer needs to consider is next season and beyond.

What is Championship football worth? 4mill in TV and solidarity, probably another 4 or 5 thousand on attendance per game based on a larger home/away following and higher sponsorship and corporate revenue.

Looks like Derby are going down and we know League One isn't easy to get out of, so if they have any players under contract with no relegation clause, it could be an expensive few seasons.

If they stay up, maybe there is value in owning them.

It's a gamble 

Might be taking minus 15 points into next season in Lg1

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1 hour ago, Hxj said:

No to the first bit - if it's by way of a CVA then they still need to complete that process.

I don't remember the details of creditors meetings. Is there a method to shorten notice periods and the like if you can get unanimous creditor consent? You know, liek there is with AGMs and shareholder meetings.

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45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My thoughts are that they are already in breach of that if they haven’t paid NI and IT…or is it all VAT?

They are in breach currently.  And they will remain in breach until the debt is cleared.  So if they do a four year payment plan then they could be in an Embargo for four years, significantly in excess of the Administration embargo.

23 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't remember the details of creditors meetings. Is there a method to shorten notice periods and the like if you can get unanimous creditor consent?

Not as far as I am aware.

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