REDOXO Posted January 29, 2022 Report Share Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said: As has been stated many times... non of the interested parties will commit without knowing the full cost (they need to know what Boro and Wycombe will be owed, if anything). No PB can be announced until those claims are dealt with. The debt owed may be £60m+, but only c£28m needs to be repaid (plus MFC/WWFC). Agreement is in place with HMRC for 25% pending the result of MFC/WWFC arbitration. MM has said he will "not seek any recovery from the sale of the stadium". Debts owed to him will be written off. Whether you want to believe it or not, the two claims ARE what's blocking Derby from coming out of administration. I guess we are going to see. However you like many believe what you are being told. MM said. Give me a break! MM has sold you all out and down the river. You honestly think HMRC will write off 75% of the debt permanently. How many of Derby County’s creditors are expected to take Penny’s on the pound while Morris walks away. My god there was a whip round for blood St Johns The person that wants to believe what they are told is you! The EFL has a stated position Wycombe do Middlesbrough (and have done for 18 months) do, Derby/Quantuma prefer to do their pleading/negotiating through local Politicians Lord knows what Quantuma have been doing for months but it wasn’t resolving the issues. What they have resorted to in the last few weeks is to mud slinging which has entrenched the positions and led to this, they haven’t got a case diatribe, when there clearly is one that needs to be heard at least, which is why we are where we are where we are even by any myopic standard. Yet it’s all set and Gibson is bastard. Clearly by your rationale the bidders don’t want to take on unforeseen debt so defacto they think there is a case. Now it’s up to the prospective buyers to negotiate settlement with Boro and Wycombe as it’s clear Quantuma are not capable and even then I have severe reservations as then there are no further excuses. Edited January 29, 2022 by REDOXO 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_bristol Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 There’s no way the public can accept 75% of the debt being written off to save the club when in three years time they’ll be back in the championship paying £12k a week to mediocre footballers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, luke_bristol said: There’s no way the public can accept 75% of the debt being written off to save the club when in three years time they’ll be back in the championship paying £12k a week to mediocre footballers. They are now. That’s how they got the HMRC debt. The football club paid the players but forgot to pay the tax on those wages. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, luke_bristol said: There’s no way the public can accept 75% of the debt being written off to save the club when in three years time they’ll be back in the championship paying £12k a week to mediocre footballers. 2 hours ago, REDOXO said: They are now. That’s how they got the HMRC debt. The football club paid the players but forgot to pay the tax on those wages. Unfortunately even though it goes against stated position, even though it chimes very badly against the current tax rises, the need for the Government/HMRC to claw back as much as possible, the 10% NI rise...I can believe it to an extent. Derbyshire MPs have been making an almighty fuss and there has been a certain amount of emotive nonsense surrounding the Derby situation- I expect those MPs will be, have been lobbying hard. Mix of emotive nonsense and missing out on future revenue, tax revenue from Derby. In an unrelated note, Mel donated £10k to the Tories- or more accurately his local MP- in 2017. Nothing to do with it I'm sure. 25% up front and the rest taken direct from income if necessary over 5-10 years plus all current HMRC liabilities to be paid as they fall due seems fair to me. Interest or would it be the lump sum at time of agreement? A 2 year transfer embargo or soft embargo- perhaps not so soft- on exiting administration is a must UNLESS the prospective new owner decides that they will cover the bulk of the debts. ie All football creditors, MSD- and say 70p in the £ minimum even to unsecured creditors and certainly to HMRC. Also that would buy significant time and breathing space to pay back the remaining 30%- a new owner coming in and offering to pay 70% of HMRC and unsecured as a start, as well as the obligations like Football Creditors, MSD and administrators fees would make a major change to things. I dare say that unsecured creditors would be more than happy with that! Plus of course the unknown quantity of the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims- of course if that is classed as a football creditor and they win then the club can either pay up, or new owner- or the EFL can claw it back from central awards over however many years it takes. Edited January 30, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 Nixon isn't sitting on the fence here!! The initial bit of news he broke. He comes out swinging with his take! Regardless of the merit of the claims, had Derby not taken the actions they did then this mess wouldn't be ongoing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Nixon isn't sitting on the fence here!! The initial bit of news he broke. He comes out swinging with his take! Regardless of the merit of the claims, had Derby not taken the actions they did then this mess wouldn't be ongoing! Again this is a bit nuts. It was mentioned earlier compression would/ could lead to expulsion from the league. The rules have not changed. The bullshit is fluid. However compressing two claims that have not been defined. Good luck! Edited January 30, 2022 by REDOXO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 9 hours ago, REDOXO said: Again this is a bit nuts. It was mentioned earlier compression would/ could lead to expulsion from the league. The rules have not changed. The bullshit is fluid. However compressing two claims that have not been defined. Good luck! Yes agreed. Administrators are desperate though they seem pretty bullish, legal advice says claims have no merit (as per them). My main point was applause for Nixon. He rightly said that had Derby stuck to the rules, these messes would not be ongoing. That nails it I believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Yes agreed. Administrators are desperate though they seem pretty bullish, legal advice says claims have no merit (as per them). My main point was applause for Nixon. He rightly said that had Derby stuck to the rules, these messes would not be ongoing. That nails it I believe. A point I repeatedly try to make. Trusting Mel Morris to do anything that has been stated on his behalf is like waiting for the robber to bring your wife’s handbag back intact. 2-2 Derby. Edited January 30, 2022 by REDOXO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 After the weekend, I'd thought that I would update the current points position, forgetting Peterborough and Barnsley for now. Derby, after a last minute equaliser, are on a gross 36 points from 28 games, net 15 points. On that basis they are aiming at 60 points gross and 39 points net at the end of the season. Cardiff after their win today are on 26 points from 27 games, on that basis they are aiming at 44 points at the end of the season. Reading are on 28 points gross from 28 games, net 22 points. On that basis they are aiming at 46 points gross and 40 points net at the end of the season. No one else is really in the race at the moment. It's Cardiff v Derby on 1 March, Reading v Cardiff on 9 April, and as the EFL have fixed things Derby v Cardiff on 7 May (last game of season). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted January 30, 2022 Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hxj said: After the weekend, I'd thought that I would update the current points position, forgetting Peterborough and Barnsley for now. Derby, after a last minute equaliser, are on a gross 36 points from 28 games, net 15 points. On that basis they are aiming at 60 points gross and 39 points net at the end of the season. Cardiff after their win today are on 26 points from 27 games, on that basis they are aiming at 44 points at the end of the season. Reading are on 28 points gross from 28 games, net 22 points. On that basis they are aiming at 46 points gross and 40 points net at the end of the season. No one else is really in the race at the moment. It's Cardiff v Derby on 1 March, Reading v Cardiff on 9 April, and as the EFL have fixed things Derby v Cardiff on 7 May (last game of season). I fear for the Pride Park toilets. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 No sign of those accounts yet. Tick tock. Four and a half hours to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOZZYBCFC Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Have they been given an extra month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DOZZYBCFC said: Have they been given an extra month? Yes, but only in respect of showing proof of funds for the remainder of the season. Edited January 31, 2022 by ExiledAjax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 6 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: No sign of those accounts yet. Tick tock. Four and a half hours to go. @Mr Popodopolous I checked the agreed decision and remembered that the accounts only have to be delivered to the EFL by 4pm today (ie a couple of hours ago). I presume that is a private publication, and IIRC the administration means they are relieved form the obligation to publish publically on the CH website. I assume we must therefore sit an wonder whether or not Derby have complied with this requirement, and likewise can only speculate as to the contents of those accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: No sign of those accounts yet. Tick tock. Four and a half hours to go. On the accounts bit, here are the requirements IIRC... Most pressingly, by 4pm today- submission of the restated and properly done accounts to the EFL for 2015/16, 2016/17, 2017/18, 2018/19 and 2019/20 season. By the end of February/start of March 2022, they will need to submit to the EFL a) The 2020/21 accounts restated and done correctly and b) The Profit and Sustainability calculations for this season. Any overspend on the latter and the -3 would surely be activated? By the end of March/start of April 2022, they will need to submit either to CH or publish likely on their website, their accounts for 2020/21 season. As per the statutory deadline- takeover or not. That was the deadlines part of the June orders but there was more... Not allowed to put any exceptional items in the accounts without the EFL's prior consent. Not allowed to put the revaluation reserve through the accounts without the EFL's prior consent. Certainly not permitted for FFP/P&S. Impairment of Player Registrations? Yes you guessed- without the EFL's prior consent. There were a couple of other bits too but don't recall these. Changing the Reporting Entity without EFL's prior consent may have been one. Edited January 31, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: @Mr Popodopolous I checked the agreed decision and remembered that the accounts only have to be delivered to the EFL by 4pm today (ie a couple of hours ago). I presume that is a private publication, and IIRC the administration means they are relieved form the obligation to publish publically on the CH website. I assume we must therefore sit an wonder whether or not Derby have complied with this requirement, and likewise can only speculate as to the contents of those accounts. Am sure that even with administration they would have to publish it on the website by the required deadline as per the Agreed Decision. Here we go, I like these terms and conditions! 26.2 ii) Edited January 31, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Am sure that even with administration they would have to publish it on the website by the required deadline as per the Agreed Decision. Here we go, I like these terms and conditions! 26.2 ii) what happens if this deadline is missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Monkeh said: what happens if this deadline is missed? I don't know. I assume a new embargo or something but I'd hope it is more serious than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Monkeh said: what happens if this deadline is missed? The Agreed Decision does not say. EFL's discretion I would assume. Could be anything from an extension to the deadline to a further embargo as Mr Pop says. As I say though, I'm not sure if/when we will find out if they did or didn't make the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 EFL have folded slightly on an issue as per one report. When clubs are embargoed Derby style, they cannot loan players. Crystal Palace wanted to buy Plange and loan him back. Reportedly, £1m fee AND loaned back. Yet when Birmingham breached FFP in 2018, one possibility was that in January 2019 Adams would be sold and then loaned back to Birmingham- this was not permitted under embargo regs. What's good for one?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: EFL have folded slightly on an issue as per one report. When clubs are embargoed Derby style, they cannot loan players. Crystal Palace wanted to buy Plange and loan him back. Reportedly, £1m fee AND loaned back. Yet when Birmingham breached FFP in 2018, one possibility was that in January 2019 Adams would be sold and then loaned back to Birmingham- this was not permitted under embargo regs. What's good for one?? doesn't it depend on squad numbers, if derby went below the thresh hold then they could do such a deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Monkeh said: doesn't it depend on squad numbers, if derby went below the thresh hold then they could do such a deal? Good point, hadn't thought of that. Maybe it fits then- after all Marshall, Jagielka, Shinnie, Baldock have left in January. Williams and some other young or fringe player also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Good point, hadn't thought of that. Maybe it fits then- after all Marshall, Jagielka, Shinnie, Baldock have left in January. Williams and some other young or fringe player also. yea I'm pretty sure thats how Reading got players in under their embargo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 From the BBC: Crisis club Derby are set for a much-needed £1m windfall for young striker Luke Plange. Derby have accepted a bid from Crystal Palace for the 19-year-old, who joined the Rams in the summer after being released by Arsenal. Plange has impressed this term and scored Derby’s first goal in their memorable 2-2 comeback draw against Birmingham yesterday. However, the deal is attractive because Palace have agreed to loan Plange back to Derby for the remainder of the season. Although the Championship club are not allowed to register new players due to their current financial position, Football League rules allow Plange to stay on at Derby providing his wage stays the same 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) My posted chant was a bit tame @lenred Birmingham fans say "Hold my beer!" Also read that Nottingham Forest fans distributed fake £5 and £10 notes was it from the top tier at the recent game and some Middlesbrough fans may wear Steve Gibson masks when they face off sometime in February. Football family eh! Minority tbh I expect but little love for them among Championship fans and rightly so. Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 4 hours ago, chinapig said: From the BBC: Crisis club Derby are set for a much-needed £1m windfall for young striker Luke Plange. Derby have accepted a bid from Crystal Palace for the 19-year-old, who joined the Rams in the summer after being released by Arsenal. Plange has impressed this term and scored Derby’s first goal in their memorable 2-2 comeback draw against Birmingham yesterday. However, the deal is attractive because Palace have agreed to loan Plange back to Derby for the remainder of the season. Although the Championship club are not allowed to register new players due to their current financial position, Football League rules allow Plange to stay on at Derby providing his wage stays the same Wonder if Championship clubs will have a view on this...the precise nature of the rule would be interesting- also suggests that Crystal Palace are covering his wages or Nixon has suggested it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Also read that Nottingham Forest fans distributed fake £5 and £10 notes was it from the top tier at the recent game and some Middlesbrough fans may wear Steve Gibson masks. We all know that Nige is getting "I am Mr Pop" t-shirts for the team to warm up in when we play them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: We all know that Nige is getting "I am Mr Pop" t-shirts for the team to warm up in when we play them. Ah he can have this one- Nige! He had a terrible time at Derby, sacked after 5 minutes, undermined badly, Matt Lawton said his time under Mel nearly had him give up on football. I am sure he would love it, just love it were we to win there and relegate them...hope he has us properly fired up for this one. Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Ah he can have this one- Nige! He had a terrible time at Derby, sacked after 5 minutes, undermined badly, Matt Lawton said his time under Mel nearly had him give up on football. I am sure he would love it, just love it were we to win there and relegate them...hope he has us properly fired up for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Here we go- toxic club Derby by the looks, under Mel Morris and Quantuma. Rooney though some credit to him and some credit to their relatively cobbled together squad too. Quote Nigel Pearson reportedly fell out with Morris when he discovered that he was using a drone to watch training sessions. A request for an interview with Morris this week did not receive a response. But one source says that Pearson once took a call off Morris asking him why he had not used corner flags when practising corners. Pearson, The Times understands, was actually less bothered about the drone, more about the meetings that Morris would have with senior players at his house. Richard Keogh, the club captain, would often be summoned, usually after a defeat. It led to a major fallout with Pearson, even if claims of a physical confrontation appear to lack veracity. A manager who had taken charge with a three-year contract in May 2016 was nevertheless gone less than six months later. Pearson is a tough individual but he was almost broken by the experience at Derby. It was the closest he has ever come to walking away from football. https://www.thetimes.co.uk//article/derby-county-the-inside-story-of-how-the-club-reached-brink-of-extinction-hn2mmhzcd Win it for Nige...hopefully if the stars align, relegate them for Nige!! Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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