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Clubs who have left Bristol City behind Since 2000... How ?


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In my time I have incomprehensively Witnessed:

Wigan

Cardiff

Blackpool 

Swansea 

Bournemouth 

Sheffield United

Stoke

Reading

Hull

Brighton 

And now soon to be Brentford all bypass my "well run" football club to the premier League.

At different times over the last 20 years we have been a promotion rival or considered a dominant team in comparison to (Brighton, Blackpool, Brentford, Bournemouth).

Each season as a City fan we have been considered to have "Money" to splash in comparison to these clubs, we have never experienced financial issues and have at times over the last 20 years had the much better team in failed seasons.

Hard to pinpoint when our missed opportunity was but i go back to the Danny Wilson era.

Division 1 football with that team Tinnion, Murray, Doherty, Matt Hill, Danny Coles, Aaron Brown after 02/03 the correct buys with that foundation we should have been doing what Wigan did at least if potential was fulfilled.

The Gary Johnson promotion and play off final was just that "The Gary Johnson promotion and play off final" He got us promoted with mid table League 1 quality players and failed to refresh the squad at the right time as Keith Millen eluded to in the recent podcast.

I will always wonder what could of been if we had another manager but Wilson.

Is it all down to luck? or where would you say we have gone wrong?

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You think about the issues that the likes of Blackpool, Wigan and Hull have had mostly stemming from their stint in the Premier League and I'd much rather be in our situation.
Also in the same period teams such as Charlton, Sunderland, Portsmouth, Bolton, Bradford have gone the other way and leap frogged us downwards, all part of football. We've probably had more stability than a lot of other clubs, which some see as stagnation.

I often think about what could have been, but then I often think Lansdown could have easily sold us to some dodgy owner if we got promotion in 2008 and who knows where we would be now. 

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22 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

In my time I have incomprehensively Witnessed:

Wigan

Cardiff

Blackpool 

Swansea 

Bournemouth 

Sheffield United

Stoke

Reading

Hull

Brighton 

And now soon to be Brentford all bypass my "well run" football club to the premier League.

At different times over the last 20 years we have been a promotion rival or considered a dominant team in comparison to (Brighton, Blackpool, Brentford, Bournemouth).

Each season as a City fan we have been considered to have "Money" to splash in comparison to these clubs, we have never experienced financial issues and have at times over the last 20 years had the much better team in failed seasons.

Hard to pinpoint when our missed opportunity was but i go back to the Danny Wilson era.

Division 1 football with that team Tinnion, Murray, Doherty, Matt Hill, Danny Coles, Aaron Brown after 02/03 the correct buys with that foundation we should have been doing what Wigan did at least if potential was fulfilled.

The Gary Johnson promotion and play off final was just that "The Gary Johnson promotion and play off final" He got us promoted with mid table League 1 quality players and failed to refresh the squad at the right time as Keith Millen eluded to in the recent podcast.

I will always wonder what could of been if we had another manager but Wilson.

Is it all down to luck? or where would you say we have gone wrong?

To be fair to GJ, that bunch of League 1 quality players were in the top two of the Championship with Watford (I think?) for most of that season, and just fell short, which says they were pretty good.  In the playoff final we just didn’t turn up, Hull were no better really.  

It’s easy to say signing different players might have resulted in promotion, but as we know from the last few years, sometimes new signings go the other way and we might have missed out completely on the playoffs.

In recent years our problem has been selling all of our best players, ripping the heart and soul out of the promotion winning squad, and not adequately replacing them (Bryan, Reid, Ayling, Flint, Freeman, Pack, Smith)  There were a few exceptions like Webster who came in but we sold him straight away.  With that sort of short term strategy any manager basically has one season to be successful, otherwise your best players will be sold!

 

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3 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

In recent years our problem has been selling all of our best players, ripping the heart and soul out of the promotion winning squad, and not adequately replacing them (Bryan, Reid, Ayling, Flint, Freeman, Pack, Smith)  There were a few exceptions like Webster who came in but we sold him straight away.  With that sort of short term strategy any manager basically has one season to be successful, otherwise your best players will be sold!

 

There's no guarantee that had we have kept those players for a season or two longer that we would have got promoted. We also run the risk of the player becoming comfortable with increased wages. I feel this is what happened during the end of GJ's tenure until our relegation. We could have sold Marvin, Skuse etc earlier and get in hungrier players. 

I think we made the right decision letting go Reid, Bryan, Flint and Webster because I understand it they wanted to go. We did make a mistake however with Freeman , Ayling and to a lesser extent Pack and Smith.

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Well, 49 clubs have been in the PL and Brentford have a good chance of being the 50th. 

Of the others, I'd say Reading, QPR, Stoke, Cardiff, Swansea, Watford, Blackpool, Brighton, Barnsley, Bournemouth, Bradford, Burnley, Huddersfield and Hull have all passed us by having been genuine competitors at various times. 

It's an irritating fact if you think about the number of clubs who've bypassed us over the years. 

Edited by tin
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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

To be fair to GJ, that bunch of League 1 quality players were in the top two of the Championship with Watford (I think?) for most of that season, and just fell short, which says they were pretty good.  In the playoff final we just didn’t turn up, Hull were no better really.  

It’s easy to say signing different players might have resulted in promotion, but as we know from the last few years, sometimes new signings go the other way and we might have missed out completely on the playoffs.

In recent years our problem has been selling all of our best players, ripping the heart and soul out of the promotion winning squad, and not adequately replacing them (Bryan, Reid, Ayling, Flint, Freeman, Pack, Smith)  There were a few exceptions like Webster who came in but we sold him straight away.  With that sort of short term strategy any manager basically has one season to be successful, otherwise your best players will be sold!

 

Being a season ticket holder during the Gary Johnson era I would say that the quality of football under him in league 1 and the Championship was a lot lower than under Wilson but very effective. Also we had a literal god send of a goalkeeper in Basso who without I doubt we would have achieved anything in the Championship. Give me him over Bentley any day!

But yes in recent seasons we have adapted to a selling club model which I hope under Pearson will now change.

I am interested to see what he signs; in his time at Leicester he built a team of unknowns with great recruitment.

There are not many "Pearson players" I can think of that follow him from club to club.

Will be intriguing to see what he can buy for us or attract to us. Another Mahrez for £200,000 will do nicely.

Edited by lukebcfc1989
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Dunno about anyone else but I am not so arrogant to claim any club has 'passed us by'. It assumes we were shit hot to start with, which is palpably untrue and that we have some divine right to be successful, which we don't. I don't get envy that Burnley or whoever have had stints in the Prem and the rest of it. 

We have to earn that right, and thus far we haven't

How about we do us, stop keeping up with the Jones' and see what happens moving forward?

What do people think?

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12 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Dunno about anyone else but I am not so arrogant to claim any club has 'passed us by'. It assumes we were shit hot to start with, which is palpably untrue and that we have some divine right to be successful, which we don't. I don't get envy that Burnley or whoever have had stints in the Prem and the rest of it. 

We have to earn that right, and thus far we haven't

How about we do us, stop keeping up with the Jones' and see what happens moving forward?

What do people think?

I think the point is that the list of clubs in the op would be considered our peers. 

How have they managed to reach the summit at various points over the last 20 years and we haven’t?

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10 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Dunno about anyone else but I am not so arrogant to claim any club has 'passed us by'. It assumes we were shit hot to start with, which is palpably untrue and that we have some divine right to be successful, which we don't. I don't get envy that Burnley or whoever have had stints in the Prem and the rest of it. 

We have to earn that right, and thus far we haven't

How about we do us, stop keeping up with the Jones' and see what happens moving forward?

What do people think?

Yeah I agree with you. In my opinion, the general notion on here is ‘Bristol City are a big club and deserve to be in the premiership’. Why? What have Bristol city done to deserve a space in the premiership? We aren’t a big club and we have not shown anywhere near enough guts. Far too cosy and comfortable to go up.

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2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I think the point is that the list of clubs in the op would be considered our peers. 

How have they managed to reach the summit at various points over the last 20 years and we haven’t?

Exactly with the Play off final and Brenfords promotion looming on Saturday I found myself baffled by this and wanted to share this painful frustration 🤣 sorry

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5 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Dunno about anyone else but I am not so arrogant to claim any club has 'passed us by'. It assumes we were shit hot to start with, which is palpably untrue and that we have some divine right to be successful, which we don't. I don't get envy that Burnley or whoever have had stints in the Prem and the rest of it. 

We have to earn that right, and thus far we haven't

How about we do us, stop keeping up with the Jones' and see what happens moving forward?

What do people think?

100% agree. There is an obsession with copying other clubs and watching what other clubs do. The love in with Brentford and copying them. It's now moved to Barnsley, Norwich, Bournemouth, etc.

Our owner has his sights on the way HE wants the club to be run and how to progress. He doesn't want to throw money at big name signings/wages (not that FFP particularly allows that now). Ideally I think he wanted to uncover the next Eddie Howe type manager in LJ and gave him a chance, which for the first 2 years was going OK, then as it didn't progress as far as it should tried to support, but it didn't work.

He wants focus on buying players 'cheap', developing them and using their performances to propel us up the table and then sell for £X more than we bought them for, re-invest and do the process again. When the time comes that we have a team that looks like it will challenge for promotion, you'll see we won't sell these players and will give it a go.

Other clubs have different ways of improving; Norwich use their academy (Godfrey, Cantwell, Aarons) and supplement this with cheap foreign talent (Steipermann, Zimmermann, Pukki) and a couple of marque signings (Buendia, Krul, Gibson).

Bournemouth went crazy with wages in their promotion season but had a very solid squad that they'd accumulated over a number of years with players like Francis, Cook, Surman, Arter, Pitman

Barnsley have gone the hardworking team with a tactically astute manager that the players have bought into. The football isn't great, but they grind out results at unlikely places.

It may take 10 years, it may take 2, but our 'slow and steady' attitude suits me down to the ground rather than risking becoming a Bolton, Wigan, Portsmouth, Bradford, Charlton, etc to enjoy 1 or 2 seasons in the prem and then 10/15 years recovering.

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Just now, Red white and red said:

Yeah I agree with you. In my opinion, the general notion on here is ‘Bristol City are a big club and deserve to be in the premiership’. Why? What have Bristol city done to deserve a space in the premiership? We aren’t a big club and we have not shown anywhere near enough guts. Far too cosy and comfortable to go up.

I don’t think that’s true.

I don’t get the impression that fans think we ‘deserve’ to be in he Premiership.

Fans just simply wonder how so many of our peers (and they are peers) have kicked in at various points.

1 minute ago, grifty said:

100% agree. There is an obsession with copying other clubs and watching what other clubs do. The love in with Brentford and copying them. It's now moved to Barnsley, Norwich, Bournemouth, etc.

Our owner has his sights on the way HE wants the club to be run and how to progress. He doesn't want to throw money at big name signings/wages (not that FFP particularly allows that now). Ideally I think he wanted to uncover the next Eddie Howe type manager in LJ and gave him a chance, which for the first 2 years was going OK, then as it didn't progress as far as it should tried to support, but it didn't work.

He wants focus on buying players 'cheap', developing them and using their performances to propel us up the table and then sell for £X more than we bought them for, re-invest and do the process again. When the time comes that we have a team that looks like it will challenge for promotion, you'll see we won't sell these players and will give it a go.

Other clubs have different ways of improving; Norwich use their academy (Godfrey, Cantwell, Aarons) and supplement this with cheap foreign talent (Steipermann, Zimmermann, Pukki) and a couple of marque signings (Buendia, Krul, Gibson).

Bournemouth went crazy with wages in their promotion season but had a very solid squad that they'd accumulated over a number of years with players like Francis, Cook, Surman, Arter, Pitman

Barnsley have gone the hardworking team with a tactically astute manager that the players have bought into. The football isn't great, but they grind out results at unlikely places.

It may take 10 years, it may take 2, but our 'slow and steady' attitude suits me down to the ground rather than risking becoming a Bolton, Wigan, Portsmouth, Bradford, Charlton, etc to enjoy 1 or 2 seasons in the prem and then 10/15 years recovering.

It’s taken 40 years already 😂

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5 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

Yeah I agree with you. In my opinion, the general notion on here is ‘Bristol City are a big club and deserve to be in the premiership’. Why? What have Bristol city done to deserve a space in the premiership? We aren’t a big club and we have not shown anywhere near enough guts. Far too cosy and comfortable to go up.

Not true, I for one certainly do not class us as a big club, we haven't ever won a major trophy... It's not envy to see others 'make it' more of why can't we be able to do that? 

We haven't been good enough and that's the frustrating thing. I would say a large majority of those clubs come from where we have always loitered (League 1 and lower reaches of Championship). 

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2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

It’s taken 40 years already 😂

So our last appearance in the top flight was 1980. I seem to recall something happened to the player contracts that caused something bad to happen in 1982.

And as you say, it's taken 40 years and we still haven't recovered to where we were...

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Not many people accept this, but we are where we are because of our owner. Which is good AND bad, depends what ambition you want from your club. 

It feels like we are stuck in 2nd/3rd gear, not going slow, but not terribly fast either. And before someone flies off their bike at me about for saying something negative about SL, I'm grateful he's our owner. 

Edited by Sturny
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5 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Swindon and Oldham both been up there as well 

I get they have both dropped massively after but at least they got a season in the prem 

I think it's overrated anyway, the journey is better than the reality. Unless you are Leicester or Leeds right now, you are basically facing a scrap every season to stay up, you get regularly slated by National pundits about poor defending and spending and then you go down again eventually.

It's not all it's cranked up to be I reckon

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16 minutes ago, grifty said:

So our last appearance in the top flight was 1980. I seem to recall something happened to the player contracts that caused something bad to happen in 1982.

And as you say, it's taken 40 years and we still haven't recovered to where we were...

So to go back to the fair question asked in the OP, why is that when many of our peers from those 40 years have?

Edited by 054123
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27 minutes ago, grifty said:

Our owner has his sights on the way HE wants the club to be run and how to progress. He doesn't want to throw money at big name signings/wages (not that FFP particularly allows that now). Ideally I think he wanted to uncover the next Eddie Howe type manager in LJ and gave him a chance, which for the first 2 years was going OK

 

Not sure about that.

In LJ's first full season it looked very much like City would be relegated after the 5-0 capitulation at PNE in the April.

I wouldn't say there were no enjoyable times to be a City fan under LJ - clearly that Cup run was one - but, my God, they were few and far between.

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56 minutes ago, 054123 said:

So to go back to the fair question asked in the OP, why is that when many of our peers from those 40 years have?

Gambles? Luck? The only one that is working out of them currently is Brighton.

If we did the same, we could end up as a Brighton/Burnley, we could end up as a Watford, WBA or we could end up as a Wigan or Portsmouth and end up in financial crisis in the lower leagues.

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not sure about that.

In LJ's first full season it looked very much like City would be relegated after the 5-0 capitulation at PNE in the April.

I wouldn't say there were no enjoyable times to be a City fan under LJ - clearly that Cup run was one - but, my God, they were few and far between.

That's the definition of OK then? Not good, not bad.

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We have no devine right to the premier league, but none of those others did either...

since i started supporting in the mid 80s we have had one year where we got very close to the top flight, the rest of the time its been a yoyo between 2nd/3rd tier, we have made lots of players rich who havent contributed much, and theres just a general apathy and lack of will to win which runs throughout the club, which when combined with some rediculous management appointments means that we just arent good enough.

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