Jokanovic

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Are you saying we should have appointed a foriegner, just because they are foriegn?

First and foremost I'm saying that statistically overseas managers outperform homegrown ones in English across all four divisions  (in the 92/3 to 2015/16 period).

And then I'm saying, or asking, armed with this knowledge, shouldn't we at least be putting some feelers out there - out there beyond the white cliffs of Dover? We do for players, so why not for managers/coaches?

But I'm also acknowledging that maybe asking SL to do this is probably not a good idea, and saying we might need to wait to go down this route until we are under new (possibly overseas) ownership. And then I'm adding that I like the look of Nige and am hopeful that he is going to do good things here. As Graham says, this time it was right to go with the best homegrown manager we could probably hope to attract here.

 

[chinapig]

50 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Partly but not entirely; but you have to ask why do our biggest clubs steer clear of yer Big Sams and yer Stevie Brucies?  As I said, across all four divisions overseas coaches outperform homegrown ones. The evidence is clear, even when allowing for the big six not employing British/Irish coaches (not difficult to work out why: there's better coaches - and plenty of them - overseas).

I have mentioned these stats four or five times on here and you are the first to be in any way curious and ask about them, so hats off to you. Not even a "source?" I'd love to know if SL is aware of these stats.

If you want to read more, Sean Ingle wrote about the research by Prof John Goddard in the guardian in 2017, "British managers are overrated by English clubs - and the stats back it up." 

Football is played all over the globe, and played better than we play it here, yet we still have many that think our own managers are the best men for the job. SL is limiting himself to a very small pool of management talent.

That said, NP should be more than good enough for us, for now. It's a jolly good appointment for us but we're years behind on this. 

Thanks, I'm familiar with Sean Ingle as the current chief sports writer at The Guardian, though I have not seen the piece you refer to before. I'll look it up for a better understanding.

The fact is that Ashton used to brag that we got applications from all over the world but there isn't any sign that we followed any up. I'm happy with Pearson too but as a club we do seem to have rather a narrow view.

 

[chinapig]

14 hours ago, chinapig said:

Thanks, I'm familiar with Sean Ingle as the current chief sports writer at The Guardian, though I have not seen the piece you refer to before. I'll look it up for a better understanding.

The fact is that Ashton used to brag that we got applications from all over the world but there isn't any sign that we followed any up. I'm happy with Pearson too but as a club we do seem to have rather a narrow view.

 

I have now read the piece and for anybody else who is interested it is here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/02/overseas-manager-14-point-difference-premier-league-season

I'd love to see the raw data though to see if there are any confounding factors or whether or not the numbers should be weighted e.g. to account for differences in budget.

Interesting stuff though 

[TV Tom]

On 28/05/2021 at 15:59, red panda said:

Very misleading picture I'm afraid.  The current situation only arose because, earlier on in the season, most of the less successful foreign managers (e.g. Aitor Karanka, Phillip Cocu, Sabri Lamouchi) were sacked and replaced by English managers.  What on earth were those club owners thinking???

There was a similar picture last season with quite a few underperforming foreign managers being sacked (e.g. Pep Clotet, Jose Gomes, Daniel Stendel, Jan Siewert).

In the previous five seasons, Fulham, Sheff Utd, Villa, Cardiff, Brighton, Burnley and Hull have all managed to get promoted despite the huge handicap of an English manager.

Sorry if that ruins your theory!

Of course their are exceptions when English managers outnumber foreign ones by 4 to 1 It doesn’t ruin my theory though, go and have a look at the stats, yet again this season 3 teams promoted with foreign managers (with barely an English player in sight) can’t you see that? Also the three teams relegated from the premiership just happened to have  Wilder, Parker & the dinosaur Big Sam at the helm

[Mr Popodopolous]

How far back should we go?

5 years, 10- what's the sample size here.

Anyway, of the last 15 clubs promoted from the division, 10 have had foreign managers at the helm. Happy to double check but it feels accurate. By the 5 years in question I mean 2016/17 up to and including this season.

Certainly no guarantees but it compares differently to the previous 5 year period ie 2011/12 to 2015/16.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How far back should we go?

5 years, 10- what's the sample size here.

Anyway, of the last 15 clubs promoted from the division, 10 have had foreign managers at the helm. Happy to double check but it feels accurate. By the 5 years in question I mean 2016/17 up to and including this season.

Certainly no guarantees but it compares differently to the previous 5 year period ie 2011/12 to 2015/16.

I posted the link to Sean Ingle's piece above but here it is again if you want more detail:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/02/overseas-manager-14-point-difference-premier-league-season