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Sheffield Wednesday- Trouble at t'mill?


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Slightly daft humour thread title aside, I dunno the veracity of this story, but the first part of it was that possibly in line with EFL guidance, they were looking to during June and July put the squad on Furlough up to the £2,500 per months with Club topping up the rest and Employer contribution for the relevant things...but the Players rejected it.

Relegation has eased my views somewhat, but I consider this to be a further lesson in terms of where overspending and then attempting to inflate income to keep on spending can get you- though feel bad for a lot of their fans.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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  • The title was changed to Sheffield Wednesday- Trouble at t'mill?
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BritAbroad said:

Bad management has gotten the club into this situation. Covid has exacerbated things, but clubs like Weds and Derby have spent well outside their means for years, and nobody seems to learn.

Agreed. Both with the overspending then Covid making matters markedly worse.

The stupid thing in the case of both Sheffield Wednesday and Derby is that Chansiri and Morris inherited a solid if unspectacular base and great position respectively. Add money to that and the only way is up surely...?

Your last point, 100%. This is a big problem in football- big clubs or any clubs overspending 'Chasing the dream'- happens time after time.

Not just the overspending either...what is remarkable is how often the same failed ideas come around under new FIFA/EFL top brass, whoever.

  1. European Super League...2021, er no wait 1998 would you believe- and many times between!
  2. World Cup every 2 years...2021, er no wait- 1999, 2001!
  3. The most recent idea, to combine the old and new- Salary Cap at our level with a Fair Play Tax based on size of overspend- this part was a common thread, to be distributed among compliant clubs. Radical and new eh? Er no- was in place or planned to be in place effective from 2013/14 under the 1 year FFP...and was a complete fiasco!! PL were opposed, and the plan had to change to redistributing to charity. That is if it could be collected at all- PL were opposed and didn't do much to collect fines, if anything. Agreed in Spring 2012.
  4. The threatened Championship breakaway in 2018, in pursuit of a better TV deal. See ITV Digital in 2002, which nearly finished off quite a few clubs.
  5. PL 2- feeding in- we hear that every decade or so.

It's strange the same or very similar themes, the same failed ideas keep rising again in Football whenever some new heads of Governing bodies or new and ambitious Club owners come in. Round and round we go, but going nowhere!!

I say failed ideas, there's a better word for this...stupid. Your nobody seems to learn nails it for all this IMO.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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If players are wanting to leave following relegation, I’m not sure how that would work if they’re furloughed. Also there are restrictions on what furloughed staff can do. 
The main issue is the morals of furloughing a bunch of millionaires at the taxpayers’ expense

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I have no time for Sheffeild Wednesday as a football club

Not after they mugged us on the first day of the season a few years ago

and charged Bristol City followers  39 pounds for a match day ticket to get Sheffield Wednesday back in the top flight.

If Bristol City wanna charge me, as a Bristol City follower,  39 pounds for a match ticket thats fine and its then my choice if I attend

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Slightly daft humour thread title aside, I dunno the veracity of this story, but the first part of it was that possibly in line with EFL guidance, they were looking to during June and July put the squad on Furlough up to the £2,500 per months with Club topping up the rest and Employer contribution for the relevant things...but the Players rejected it.

Relegation has eased my views somewhat, but I consider this to be a further lesson in terms of where overspending and then attempting to inflate income to keep on spending can get you- though feel bad for a lot of their fans.

Utterly shameful if true. There are countless things that taxpayers money should be spent on rather than subsidizing a financially dubious football club.

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It would also leave the club with 6 days of pre-season training post players having been left to their own devices for over two months (furlough would prevent them from any activity with their employer, particularly for certain types of insurance.)

It also implies any players coming in wouldn't sign until the very last knockings, so that likely equals dregs or desperates.

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2 hours ago, phantom said:

I guess I'm missing something here.

But wouldn't the players still be taking home the same salary, it's just paid between furlough and the club?

I don't think so, they would basically have there wage reduced to around the same amount as someone on 28k a year I think. 

This would be disgusting, overpaid millionaires (or should be with what they have earned over a few years if they haven't pissed it up the wall or spent it all on stupid cars) taking taxed public money that's come from nurses and people that are earning minimum wage is absolutely disgusting. 

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They have been really poorly run for many years.

I am pretty sure they have only sold 2 players for a fee in the last 5 years & in the meantime accumulated an expensive, underachieving large squad and went through numerous managers like no one’s business.

Despite being a massive club they are going to find next season a challenge, they simply aren’t equipped to bounce back & although the gap between L1 & The Championship is large, with Sunderland, Portsmouth, Charlton & Ipswich all down there as well it looks a tougher league than the one Hull & Peterborough have just left.

Still, they have Barry Bannan, eh?

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I agree with the people on here who say it morally wrong. Whatever the rights and wrongs of why it was necessary in the first place, the Furlough scheme was not designed to keep fat cats fat, but assist smaller businesses to remain solvent whilst lessening the impact on staff.

 

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2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Utterly shameful if true. There are countless things that taxpayers money should be spent on rather than subsidizing a financially dubious football club.

Sheffield W. players should be hiding under a blanket in shame also. 

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

 

Still, they have Barry Bannan, eh?

They can keep him.

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2 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

I have no time for Sheffeild Wednesday as a football club

Not after they mugged us on the first day of the season a few years ago

and charged Bristol City followers  39 pounds for a match day ticket to get Sheffield Wednesday back in the top flight.

If Bristol City wanna charge me, as a Bristol City follower,  39 pounds for a match ticket thats fine and its then my choice if I attend

Isn’t it also your choice whether you want to pay Sheffield Wednesday £39 for a ticket ?

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

It would also leave the club with 6 days of pre-season training post players having been left to their own devices for over two months (furlough would prevent them from any activity with their employer, particularly for certain types of insurance.)

It also implies any players coming in wouldn't sign until the very last knockings, so that likely equals dregs or desperates.

Both good points. I’d imagine the authorities would make this a case they scrutinise very closely to ensure the rules of furlough (no work etc) are being followed. You’d hope so.

And although I don’t know the details, I’d assume you can’t join an employer for the first time and go straight into furlough?

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3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

And although I don’t know the details, I’d assume you can’t join an employer for the first time and go straight into furlough?

You could sign a pre-contract for the value of the furlough as, de facto, the work is there just not at that time. But who in their right mind would so do?

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Could imposing furlough on Players, putting aside the morality, be some kind of breach of contract?

Theoretically some might agitate to leave, or maybe rip up contracts if furloughed without consent? Granted it very seldom happens, even when players go months without pay, strikes are rare enough but in theory and especially in these uncertain times.

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On 28/05/2021 at 20:57, BritAbroad said:

Bad management has gotten the club into this situation. Covid has exacerbated things, but clubs like Weds and Derby have spent well outside their means for years, and nobody seems to learn.

Unless you are a Wycombe or a Rotherham in this league it is virtually impossible to underspend. Nothing will change until either the spend limits are amended upwards, the players are forced to accept a new pay cut reality or the Football League get some gnashers and start applying fines and points deduction when they matter. Or perhaps a combination of two or more. 

I cannot see any improvement anytime soon which is why I support Neville over Scudamore on the issue of solidarity payments. 

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could imposing furlough on Players, putting aside the morality, be some kind of breach of contract?

Theoretically some might agitate to leave, or maybe rip up contracts if furloughed without consent? Granted it very seldom happens, even when players go months without pay, strikes are rare enough but in theory and especially in these uncertain times.

I think the incumbent govt have broken every rule in the book these past 14 months. As far as I am concerned people should refuse to pay their taxes, en masse. Rule breaking and the black economy have already escalated to never before seen numbers and that's only going to carry on now. 

The frustration and deep seated anger out there amongst business owners of all kinds is a tinder box.

Fair game to Chansirai to try anything in my book. All he cares about is survival. 

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On 29/05/2021 at 07:19, Never to the dark side said:

I have no time for Sheffeild Wednesday as a football club

Not after they mugged us on the first day of the season a few years ago

and charged Bristol City followers  39 pounds for a match day ticket to get Sheffield Wednesday back in the top flight.

If Bristol City wanna charge me, as a Bristol City follower,  39 pounds for a match ticket thats fine and its then my choice if I attend

They picked the wrong guys to try and fleece on the opening day of a new season following a glorious points guzzling promotion from League Nowhere - and so their away end was mostly empty that day. Unlucky, Sheffield Wednesday! Fleece someone else!

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12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could imposing furlough on Players, putting aside the morality, be some kind of breach of contract?

Theoretically some might agitate to leave, or maybe rip up contracts if furloughed without consent? Granted it very seldom happens, even when players go months without pay, strikes are rare enough but in theory and especially in these uncertain times.

One can't furlough without consent, de facto it's a change in contract (albeit a temporary one.)

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My company imposed a compulsory week unpaid on all US staff on over 75k usd. The rest of the world (due to HR legislation) was asked on a voluntary basis. On the basis of being in it together, the take up rate was huge, to protect the jobs of the lower paid staff.  I can't believe that football players have not thought to do something similar in all clubs.

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5 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I think the incumbent govt have broken every rule in the book these past 14 months. As far as I am concerned people should refuse to pay their taxes, en masse. Rule breaking and the black economy have already escalated to never before seen numbers and that's only going to carry on now. 

The frustration and deep seated anger out there amongst business owners of all kinds is a tinder box.

Fair game to Chansirai to try anything in my book. All he cares about is survival. 

Refusing to pay tax when for most tax is deducted at source wouldn't work.

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11 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Unless you are a Wycombe or a Rotherham in this league it is virtually impossible to underspend. Nothing will change until either the spend limits are amended upwards, the players are forced to accept a new pay cut reality or the Football League get some gnashers and start applying fines and points deduction when they matter. Or perhaps a combination of two or more. 

I cannot see any improvement anytime soon which is why I support Neville over Scudamore on the issue of solidarity payments. 

There are ways for clubs to help themselves. Developing players and selling at a profit is one. I think Championship clubs could also collectively refuse to pay high fees for loan players from the PL, as they are developing players for them. I do agree wages are too high.

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They’ve got 27 players contracted throughout June. Then only 17 contracted throughout July. 
At £2,500, this would cost £110,000. 
 

Absolute madness that Sheff Weds seemingly can’t afford £110k! 
In fact, once they offload Rhodes, Westwood, Lees & Odubajo at the end of June, they save £110k per month in wages! 
 

They must be in some serious dire straights if they’re looking to the government to save them £110k!! Wow. 

Edited by Harry
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4 hours ago, Harry said:

They’ve got 27 players contracted throughout June. Then only 17 contracted throughout July. 
At £2,500, this would cost £110,000. 
 

Absolute madness that Sheff Weds seemingly can’t afford £110k! 
In fact, once they offload Rhodes, Westwood, Lees & Odubajo at the end of June, they save £110k per month in wages! 
 

They must be in some serious dire straights if they’re looking to the government to save them £110k!! Wow. 

Their Accounts run to end of July so contracts may also push onto then but yeah- I have read on their forum that Chansiri has cash flow issues but who knows.

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Posted (edited)

I also saw a mention on OwlsTalk.

Little post to LondonOwl313, I am not uniquely or even specifically anti Sheffield Wednesday- but all 24 clubs do not run beyond their means, by beyond means I am talking about P&S. If we're talking about Operating or Cash Flow Profits, Cash In Bank/On Hand etc then you may well be right but I'm not especially concerned with that aspect from an FFP position.

I have also been a significant critic of Aston Villa- still have hope the EFL will go after them somehow, Derby, started on Reading but waiting to see how that develops and Stoke likewise. Do I think Sheffield Wednesday got what they deserved? I'd be lying if I said I didn't but they are one of a number. I also believe Birmingham got what they deserved, -9, soft embargo, EFL Business Plan and Secondary charges- could even argue that EFL intervention set them onto a better path. They seem quite keen to stay compliant and run more sensibly than up to 2018 by the looks.

QPR- the original big culprits, tried to smash it out of the park. They are pretty respectful of the regulations now- did their 4 year battle with the EFL improve their mindset? Maybe! Chansiri might learn as well.

In short, I hope any club who appear to be in breach of FFP get punished accordingly.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Their Accounts run to end of July so contracts may also push onto then but yeah- I have read on their forum that Chansiri has cash flow issues but who knows.

All pro contracts with the exception of short term deals run until 30th June each year.

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On 29/05/2021 at 02:57, BritAbroad said:

Bad management has gotten the club into this situation. Covid has exacerbated things, but clubs like Weds and Derby have spent well outside their means for years, and nobody seems to learn.

I remember a few seasons back the owner asked the fans to pay more to watch games so the club could pay for better players, ridiculous!  
 

I see from comment above it was away fans getting charged more!  Even more ridiculous! 

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