Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 10 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said: I remember a few seasons back the owner asked the fans to pay more to watch games so the club could pay for better players, ridiculous! I see from comment above it was away fans getting charged more! Even more ridiculous! Tbh as far as I can tell, their prices shot up- I am sure @Owl Visiting could tell us a bit more, had some of the most expensive in the Championship under Chansiri? Certainly not solely limited to away fans. https://www.eurosport.com/football/chansiri-defends-ticket-price-hike_sto4824610/story.shtml Read again the post by LondonOwl313 and this bit is interesting... Quote Thinks that somehow we’ve cheated and deserve everything we’ve got. Funny how there’s been no advantage to this supposed cheating as we’re now in the third division. All I can say to that is, Birmingham after years of mismanagement followed by austerity went on a bit of a spending spree between December 2016 and September 2017. Zola and Redknapp the two managers- covered two windows. Losses surged. One of the defences used in their case, or attempted anyway was that because no advantage had been gained, there should be no or minimal punishment. It however did not cut much ice- was a bit of a case of nice try but no cigar. The mere act of attempting to gain an advantage through exceeding limits and in this case compounded by the botched Hillsborough transaction is sufficient. The counterfactual cited in this case was what if all clubs had attempted to gain an advantage through overspending to the same extent as Birmingham? The quantum of the actual advantage gained isn't that important, tbh when it comes to the Disciplinary Process. The overspending, or the questionable means that some clubs use with which to make the overspending fit the regulations, is the charge, the offence. Advantage gained at the end of a season is only moderately important- spending more than a club should or using methods to make it look legitimate will basically give them an an advantage or a potential advantage that they shouldn't otherwise have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 I don't wish them ill and still feel sympathy with the fans- but could there be opportunities for clubs who move quickly here- Pearson take note! Despite relegation I still see them as having some decent players... https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/exclusive-sheffield-wednesday-players-considering-walking-away-over-ongoing-wages-issues-3256319 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I don't wish them ill and still feel sympathy with the fans- but could there be opportunities for clubs who move quickly here- Pearson take note! Despite relegation I still see them as having some decent players... https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/exclusive-sheffield-wednesday-players-considering-walking-away-over-ongoing-wages-issues-3256319 For God`s sake don`t tell @Robbored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLRed Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 We’ll take urhoghide off their hands. Promising rb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 As well as two names above... Iorfa we all know is good, versatile and with room to grow, Borner is competent on the ball although are stats misleading in his case? Windass can contribute some end product at this level from midfield, goals and assists even in a struggling side. Paterson has some physicality and goals but not so sold on the idea of him. Not read the article in full but depending on who would be agitating for a move or quitting the club, there could be some reasonable players or depth players suddenly available for cheaper than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: As well as two names above... Iorfa, Borner is competent on the ball although are stats misleading in his case? Windass can contribute some end product at this level from midfield, goals and assists even in a struggling side. Paterson has some physicality and goals but not so sold on the idea of him. I`d forgotten about Borner, not a bad player from what I`ve seen - looks like he cares at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: I`d forgotten about Borner, not a bad player from what I`ve seen - looks like he cares at least. Yep, could be useful at this level IMO. Championship and Bundesliga II experience- not one you'd break the bank for but for the right price definitely one to consider I'd think. In fact a decent number of that side who went down were 3rd in the Championship going into Christmas 2019 and beat Leeds away in 2nd weekend January 2020 before spiralling downwards with a combination of wage issues, EFL battles, regular managerial sackings/departures and then Covid and no fans (though the latter was universal)- think off field issues a much bigger reason for their decline, I query how many of the players are truly bottom 3 fodder at a stable club. Dunkley is there too- decent age 29, but a problem is injuries. Only played 12 games there last season and I believe he was injured for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 Another I forgot about- Luongo. Any takers if this situation deteriorates? That said he had a number of injuries last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Another I forgot about- Luongo. Any takers if this situation deteriorates? That said he had a number of injuries last season. He has experience of promotion as well, back in (November) 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Visiting Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 I've had a few goes at writing this post but keep starting again as I'm worried about writing something libellous. I'm expecting things to get far far worse over the next few months and I can't even imagine what sort of squad we'll have by the time the season starts. Which currently unattached footballer in their right mind would currently sign for the club, when the current players aren't being paid in full and are considering handing in their notice? For anyone unaware, we've barely got a squad at the moment as we've just released most of them. If the money has dried up we're in enormous trouble. @Mr Popodopolous you're far more clued up in financial matters than me. How concerned should we be that Chansiri owns the ground? Is that something that could be sold if the money has ran out, in an effort to claw back some of the enormous amounts of money he's put in? The club itself must be worth nothing at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 21 hours ago, Owl Visiting said: I've had a few goes at writing this post but keep starting again as I'm worried about writing something libellous. I'm expecting things to get far far worse over the next few months and I can't even imagine what sort of squad we'll have by the time the season starts. Which currently unattached footballer in their right mind would currently sign for the club, when the current players aren't being paid in full and are considering handing in their notice? For anyone unaware, we've barely got a squad at the moment as we've just released most of them. If the money has dried up we're in enormous trouble. @Mr Popodopolous you're far more clued up in financial matters than me. How concerned should we be that Chansiri owns the ground? Is that something that could be sold if the money has ran out, in an effort to claw back some of the enormous amounts of money he's put in? The club itself must be worth nothing at the moment. I do wish your club pull it round- how competitive on the pitch you would be in the short to medium term is a different matter but solvency wise. I assumed that relegation might see a reset- how has he seemingly run out of cash? High earners left you in Summer 2020 and again in Summer 2021- of course Covid plays a major role but he has put in significant loans not that long ago. If the situation is that desperate, he should be looking at putting players up for sale to bring in revenue to pay the bills and buy time surely...for realistic not inflated or his perception of worth. Part of me wonders if he's playing a (very) high stakes game of poker here because this has happened multiple times before and he has eventually come through with the cash albeit late or in instalments. Or if he has cash flow as opposed to actual cash gone issues. On one level, the Ground being separated from Club could be a saving grace because if it was on the books and a Club went into admin it could be an asset to recoup losses. However the Administrators cannot get at it while it's under Sheffield 3 Limited which in turn has its controlling company listed as Sheffield 5 Limited- all controlled by Chansiri of course. However there is also a debt secured against it and I've always assumed that this will not be an issue- ie he will pay down this debt, it's about £6.4m IIRC. As an aside, Club going into administration would make little sense for him anyway, financially. There is also possible good news in that I believe, can't remember who/which group but a group has applied for Hillsborough to become an Asset of Community Value. Unsure how that's moving along but that gives a stay on sale for 6 months in order for the local community to raise money to buy it back should it reach that point. There is also a possibility that there could be Restrictive Covenants on Planning Permission and Alternative use- I'd hope so, an ACV would enhance this possibility and this would mean...what value could it hold without a football club to play there? Thereby significantly reducing any sale value for Alternative use. May make that option unviable if restrictions on use. In theory then he might still be able to sell it but it would be restricted in use and would mean that any prospective buyer would be best served keeping the Stadium but leasing it back at the value of the Lease- Accounts shows it to be something like £2.5m per season, up to £77.25m by the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Visiting Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Thanks for the detailed response @Mr Popodopolous. I hope you're right about cash flow issues. I think our fans, myself included, look at other clubs that have come close to going under (and sadly in Bury and Macclesfield's case, gone under) as it often seems to start with players failing to be paid, and worry that we're on the same path. Regarding the price hikes you asked about earlier in the thread. It came in near the beginning of Chansiri's reign when he and many of us thought we'd got a shot at reaching the Premier League. The season ticket prices were high, but he made the matchday prices ridiculous, to try and justify the season ticket prices and force the supporter's hand. The fans immediately turned on each other of course, with some even applauding the decision "It's right he rewards the most loyal fans" etc, but of course there wasn't a reward, he'd just burned the fans that pick and choose their games. This was definitely Chansiri's first big mistake, and it turned an enormous amount of fans against him. After the negative reaction by supporters and the media, the club then put out a survey which contained these 2 questions, which annoyed fans further: A) Would you prefer the prices at Sheffield Wednesday across the board, for example Season Tickets, matchday tickets, official merchandise, corporate hospitality, were reduced to previous eras? The consequence of this would be the sale of key senior players, regular promotion to the first team of academy youngsters and a reduced level of investment. Yes No B) Alternatively, would you prefer the club to build on the current level of investment, maintain the pricing structure, and extend our ongoing strategy geared towards promotion to the Premier League. Yes No The club then brought in the 5 year season ticket scheme, again alienating those unable to afford even a regular season ticket, rather than reducing matchday prices. My main concern with this at the time was that it effectively sets a minimum price for all future games at Hillsborough, even for single year season ticket holders, as the owners of 5 year season ticket holders cannot be undercut. We've been relegated now of course, so a big drop in prices next season just isn't an option for the club. Even the shirts are consistently the most expensive in the league, despite being made by Chansiri's own Elev8 company. In fairness I bought last season's away shirt the other day (a moment of madness because it had been reduced) and the quality is good, but the brand is important to a lot of fans and this is another regular source of complaint. A 'timeline' was put together on Owlstalk recently listing all the negative things since Chansiri has arrived. Some of it is very minor and isn't worth being on there, but the main issues are listed for anyone interested. It's in the members only section (Or North Korea as Blades fans call it) so I've pasted it into a google doc for anyone interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/17teXFEvfha4g00pinSoWnaJodJOk_ZtyIOH-Yz3DyDk/edit?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 I think you missed the arrival of Darren Moore. I have a question on him to you anyway; how do you think the club was sold to him? I mean, here he is, doing rather well at Donny, in and around auto promotion at one point but always in the 6 environs and he jumps ship for a team rarely out of the bottom 3. I know Wednesday have the brights light of history, we all get that, but is it so that Darren Moore did absolutely zero homework on even half of what you posted above? I am baffled. Oh and just to add, while you say the crest was changed without consultation I think I am right in saying this is a historical design. Regardless, I really like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Visiting Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 On 04/06/2021 at 22:31, havanatopia said: I think you missed the arrival of Darren Moore. I have a question on him to you anyway; how do you think the club was sold to him? I mean, here he is, doing rather well at Donny, in and around auto promotion at one point but always in the 6 environs and he jumps ship for a team rarely out of the bottom 3. I know Wednesday have the brights light of history, we all get that, but is it so that Darren Moore did absolutely zero homework on even half of what you posted above? I am baffled. Oh and just to add, while you say the crest was changed without consultation I think I am right in saying this is a historical design. Regardless, I really like it. Yeah, you're right about the badge. It's not my list, just copied from Owlstalk. Lots of the minor things like that shouldn't be on there. I can't even imagine how the club would have been sold to Moore.....I've got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Owl Visiting said: Yeah, you're right about the badge. It's not my list, just copied from Owlstalk. Lots of the minor things like that shouldn't be on there. I can't even imagine how the club would have been sold to Moore.....I've got nothing. Or perhaps he just bamboozled them with his undoubted knowledge of the game and a great presentation. I think he has already proven he will be in management for many years to come. Why he chose Wednesday though is a mystery if indeed he did. Money and prestige over steady and an upward trajectory with Donny. I suppose if he can ride the storm he may be rewarded. It looks a remote prospect from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 On 03/06/2021 at 14:43, Owl Visiting said: Thanks for the detailed response @Mr Popodopolous. I hope you're right about cash flow issues. I think our fans, myself included, look at other clubs that have come close to going under (and sadly in Bury and Macclesfield's case, gone under) as it often seems to start with players failing to be paid, and worry that we're on the same path. Regarding the price hikes you asked about earlier in the thread. It came in near the beginning of Chansiri's reign when he and many of us thought we'd got a shot at reaching the Premier League. The season ticket prices were high, but he made the matchday prices ridiculous, to try and justify the season ticket prices and force the supporter's hand. The fans immediately turned on each other of course, with some even applauding the decision "It's right he rewards the most loyal fans" etc, but of course there wasn't a reward, he'd just burned the fans that pick and choose their games. This was definitely Chansiri's first big mistake, and it turned an enormous amount of fans against him. After the negative reaction by supporters and the media, the club then put out a survey which contained these 2 questions, which annoyed fans further: A) Would you prefer the prices at Sheffield Wednesday across the board, for example Season Tickets, matchday tickets, official merchandise, corporate hospitality, were reduced to previous eras? The consequence of this would be the sale of key senior players, regular promotion to the first team of academy youngsters and a reduced level of investment. Yes No B) Alternatively, would you prefer the club to build on the current level of investment, maintain the pricing structure, and extend our ongoing strategy geared towards promotion to the Premier League. Yes No The club then brought in the 5 year season ticket scheme, again alienating those unable to afford even a regular season ticket, rather than reducing matchday prices. My main concern with this at the time was that it effectively sets a minimum price for all future games at Hillsborough, even for single year season ticket holders, as the owners of 5 year season ticket holders cannot be undercut. We've been relegated now of course, so a big drop in prices next season just isn't an option for the club. Even the shirts are consistently the most expensive in the league, despite being made by Chansiri's own Elev8 company. In fairness I bought last season's away shirt the other day (a moment of madness because it had been reduced) and the quality is good, but the brand is important to a lot of fans and this is another regular source of complaint. A 'timeline' was put together on Owlstalk recently listing all the negative things since Chansiri has arrived. Some of it is very minor and isn't worth being on there, but the main issues are listed for anyone interested. It's in the members only section (Or North Korea as Blades fans call it) so I've pasted it into a google doc for anyone interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/17teXFEvfha4g00pinSoWnaJodJOk_ZtyIOH-Yz3DyDk/edit?usp=sharing No prob, lots of twists and turns with this one- bad news from Nixon then local reporter suggested ray of light ahead. The ticketing issue sounds like hands have been tied somewhat...Elev8 seems to be a real company then, sponsoring the shirts- D-Taxis? Certainly doesn't seem to be real... https://www.facebook.com/dtaxisheffield3959595/ Reading that doc was very interesting, what a reign- and not really in a good way, but eventful would be one word! Hindsight etc etc but he should perhaps have sold some of the higher earners in 2018 from a position of relative strength and looked to go again within a year or 2 of resetting while still likely a Championship club. As for Moore, he probably saw it as a chance to get a big if struggling club going again, a club with a higher ceiling than Doncaster- well run and top 6 contenders though they were at the time. Possibly didn't quite realise what he was walking into...? 3 and a bit years on, but an interesting article from a well-informed Leeds fan- think he places a bit too much emphasis on the going concern bit as the Championship is a mental League financially, to say the least and yes some Leeds related stuff but he raised a few red flags as far back as March 2018. https://www.mikethornton.xyz/sheffield-wednesday-going-concern/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Slightly strange goings on. On one hand, there is the wage issue with PFA getting involved and seemingly encouraging players to a) Put in claims, b) The risk that if reported to EFL points deductions could follow. Plus of course the lack of Accounts- though due to Covid, not technically due until 30th July at CH. Plus claims that Borner's move to Hannover on a free in lieu of his outstanding unpaid wages has been blocked or similar. If that has indeed been blocked, I'd say he's well within his rights to put in a claim, put in his 15 day notice and probably lodge a complaint too. Yet they appear to be strongly linked with Lee Gregory on a free!? Can someone square the circle of issues paying existing wages (to say the least) with signing Gregory on a free. Surely all outstanding football debt should be paid down before any signings made?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 I should also add, that there are a few interesting theories floating about Owlstalk. If the Asset of Community Value status is achieved, that will crash its value of £60m 'purchase' price to its £22m valuation in 2014?? Seems unorthodox. Also a suggestion that if the club go into administration, the Administrator can look to restore ownership to the Club. According to the Accounts, he's paying it in 8 x £7.5m instalments. Even a suggestion that technical ownership still with the club. Unsure how true or accurate some of that is, but surely that then leaves them wide open to further EFL investigation and actions about the Hillsborough transaction but from a different angle. Ie if Valuation drops back down or it reverts back, then the £38m Profit used to help FFP looks very suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: If the Asset of Community Value status is achieved, that will crash its value of £60m 'purchase' price to its £22m valuation in 2014?? It wont. All being listed as an Asset of Community Value does is give the community chance to buy the asset at the agreed price between the seller and the other buyer. If the community can't meet the price it can't buy the asset. 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Also a suggestion that if the club go into administration, the Administrator can look to restore ownership to the Club. If the football club goes into administration then the administrator can do, amongst others, three things. Firstly they can disclaim any onerous assets that are in effect costs to the club such as the lease. Secondly they can seek to reverse any transactions involving transfers from the club at an undervalue. Thirdly much more likely that they will try and recover the sale price from the company that purchased the asset. If that company doesn't pay the administrators can compromise the debt, for example give me the stadium freehold and I will not sue your for the money, if there are debts secured on the freehold that gets more complicated. Plus of course the freehold of the ground is valuable, so someone else might want it. The first one is unlikely to happen as anyone buying the club needs the ground (or a League One standard ground). If anyone suggests that the ground sale was a transaction at an undervalue then ...... Of course if the club does go into administration they will take a 12 point deduction too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpexile Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 On 01/06/2021 at 00:52, Mr Popodopolous said: Zola and Redknapp the two managers- covered two windows. Losses surged. One of the defences used in their case, or attempted anyway was that because no advantage had been gained, there should be no or minimal punishment. It however did not cut much ice- was a bit of a case of nice try but no cigar. The mere act of attempting to gain an adv Mr Pop, "You can't say that"............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 10/06/2021 at 23:02, bpexile said: Mr Pop, "You can't say that"............... Typed in a hurry, I stand corrected? Small update on this thread. https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/german-club-confirm-julian-borner-contract-but-hes-still-a-sheffield-wednesday-player-3284376 One reported plan was that Börner joined on a free, therefore could leave on a free- Hannover pay him a higher wage in lieu of wages due to him from Sheffield Wednesday- and he wants to go back to Germany for family reasons, that's a small bit both of past, present and future wages knocked off the liabilities. Not ideal but pragmatic in the circs. However, Sheffield Wednesday now appear to want a fee- and he has now initiated Arbitration Proceedings- wonder if he's the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Wrong thread for this and perhaps old news, but I just heard that Adriano Basso has gone to Wednesday as a keeper coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahanshahan Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Yep, just confirmed. https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2021/june/adriano-basso-joins-owls-as-first-team-goalkeeper-coach/ Good luck to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Good luck to him. Additionally, hope he gets some solid guarantees about pay let's say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Are Sheffield Wednesday's financial and wage issues overstated? Two lines. Apparently they went to a luxury hotel in South Wales. Plus, their asking price for Windass is reportedly out. £5m?? That said it's also suggested that significant wage arrears exist- if true, for how long can they kick that can down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Apparently they went to a luxury hotel in South Wales. They went to Celtic Manor, nice hotel, but if you don't like golf a bit of a pointless pretentious pile of brick just off the M4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Are Sheffield Wednesday's financial and wage issues overstated? Two lines. Apparently they went to a luxury hotel in South Wales. Plus, their asking price for Windass is reportedly out. £5m?? That said it's also suggested that significant wage arrears exist- if true, for how long can they kick that can down the road. Guess that’s to put people off rather than a true reflection of his value. If Windass wants to leave they won’t get anything like that, and will therefore be left with an unhappy player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Developments here. Sheffield Wednesday appear to have paid the wages and backpay for the players... ...Albeit, when I say the players I mean those still on the payroll- those who have left or are in the process of leaving, not yet it seems- PFA still involved I expect, Börner situation I expect is interesting as he had launched Arbitration Proceedings, unclear how that one is looking but probably the most interesting of the scenarios. The possibility for multiple free agents looks to have receded a bit but in theory they could perhaps still put in claims, though different reports show different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 Sounds like wages paid for the players who have left- not so much in this story then, although it's a strange saga. Unlikely any newly available free agents- @Robbored will be disappointed. Nixon is adamant this most recent stuff, was not a cash issue, but one of mindset/attitude. Wonder if the EFL will nonetheless take a view, delayed wages for months cannot really be allowed to stand totally unpunished. Both as an issue in itself, plus as setting a precedent in terms of deterrence to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 On 27/06/2021 at 15:42, Hxj said: They went to Celtic Manor, nice hotel, but if you don't like golf a bit of a pointless pretentious pile of brick just off the M4. old or new Celtic Manor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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