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pillred

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1 hour ago, !james said:

Crikey imagine thinking that Spudski post was 'moderate' and 'trying to find middle ground' ?

Yep. big surprise the covid denier who has been radicalised by social media is here repeating the next social media nonsense as well!

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1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Hungarians are all racists then judging by their booing against Ireland on Tuesday night ?

 

28 minutes ago, 2015 said:

It is pretty obvious you think anyone who boos is automatically a racist.

 

Anyway, good on Hungary

You realise Hungary does actually have a big racism, anti-semitism, anti-immigrant problem right? Not exactly the beacons of morality that I'd be cheering on personally.

Of course, not everyone who boos the knee is a racist but in agreeing with them you are on the same side as the racists, like it or not, and the players aren't able to differentiate each boo'ers motives in the moment. Therefore, if you boo the knee, regardless of your motivation you are directly impacting one of your players. It's a dumb move.

Perhaps the ones booing that aren't racist could also hold a banner up indicating that they aren't racist, just so the players know not to be offended by their disagreement of what is an action against racism.

As others pointed out, no one has been criticised, boo'd or otherwise abused for NOT taking the knee as far as I can see. It's free choice and quite clearly people can choose not to take the knee without any ill feeling amongst their peers.

Why is it that the ones being abused and oppressed need to change their actions and bow down to the abusers? Why cant the abusers change their actions?

 

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4 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

If that's what you want to call it then yes but only because it contradicts your previous post and one of your central arguments that taking the knee is nothing to do with politics. (promise I'm not stalking you ?)

You can try and muddle things by bringing up the England squads intent but the article makes things clear that there is an underlying agenda behind this that runs deeper than a mere anti-racism gesture from footballers. Think what you like about if booing is racist or not but I have a problem with people saying that this has nothing to do with politics, on that point I believe you are being completely dishonest (against overwhelming evidence) because to say otherwise is to invalidate your argument. By liking the post I think its obvious that you see how the right are using this moment to their advantage but yet you are in complete denial about the political left's involvement in this, for me that's what's really bizarre!

Muddle things by bringing up the England squads intent?

The England squads intent is the only important thing. And they have been crystal clear about it.

Arguing over what people write on the Internet, or what posts people press "like" on a forum is the real attempt at muddying things.

As for the last bit of your post, you've gone from accusing me of saying everyone that boos is racist (because I liked a post with a link in) to saying I can see how the right are using it to their advantage. You didn't even say "far right", just "right". Are you saying that the right are racists? 

I am not in denial about the left's political "involvement" with any of this. Of course the left will be trying to gain political capital from it. So what? That's nothing to do with the England team, they have zero control over what random people write on the Internet.

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17 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

I can't understand why people get so annoyed about it to be honest. I literally don't care if players do it or not. 

It also just seems very controproductive to be booing players who you are meant to be supporting taking the knee.  

 

Because just like they get offended by complete strangers having pronouns in their twitter bio, or a random celebrity they don't even like being "cancelled", or Oxford Uni students removing a picture they put up a few years before, or Gary Lineker tweeting on his own personal account, they have a need to feel constantly outraged and oppressed about everything.

(While calling everyone else woke snowflakes)

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3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Yep. big surprise the covid denier who has been radicalised by social media is here repeating the next social media nonsense as well!

Much like some left wing radicals on here brainwashed by social media and the mainstream media.. 

Applies to both

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Just now, 2015 said:

Much like some left wing radicals on here brainwashed by social media and the mainstream media.. 

Applies to both

Sure, but the action (booing) is being taken by one of those groups, while the majority are doing the opposite right?

I don't see any left wing people attacking Brentford for their stance on this thread do you?

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24 minutes ago, lenred said:

Re ‘your crew’ I am referring to the person who called me a ‘melt’ 

 

So there is no crew? I am part of something I have not done? That is quite silly. Once again what crew am I part of? Who are the posters supporting racism?   

In regards to the latter if you believe that is myself, I am part of this crew provide facts to underline it. 

You can refer again to my earlier points about using insults like racist and nazi and far right. That is about delegitimising views and elitism. 

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1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

Sure, but the action (booing) is being taken by one of those groups, while the majority are doing the opposite right?

I don't see any left wing people attacking Brentford for their stance on this thread do you?

I have seen and on many other threads that those influenced from the left consistently patronise and adopt an holier than thou attitude towards others. Bit like their heroes Gary Lineker

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5 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Much like some left wing radicals on here brainwashed by social media and the mainstream media.. 

Applies to both

In some cases that is true.

But at the moment the two groups are:

Group 1: "BOOOOOO!!!! STOP IT!!!! MARXISM!!!!"

Group 2: "Let the players decide for themselves"

Which group sounds more brainwashed?

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2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I have seen and on many other threads that those influenced from the left consistently patronise and adopt an holier than thou attitude towards others. Bit like their heroes Gary Lineker

Oh come on, and Spudski's post on here (the thread we're talking about) wasn't? With the "branwashed by MSM" "nobody thinks for themselves any more (apart from me!!!)" bollocks?

If your response is "Well I saw some people I disagree with do something similar somewhere" I don't really understand your point!

You get patronising prats everywhere unfortunately.

If you look on this thread most of those "left leaning" folk are mostly saying it's Brentford's choice, and maybe it's beginning to run its course - same as on the other 10 threads about it.

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3 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

In some cases that is true.

But at the moment the two groups are:

Group 1: "BOOOOOO!!!! STOP IT!!!! MARXISM!!!!"

Group 2: "Let the players decide for themselves"

Which group sounds more brainwashed?

I'm sorry but if Harry Kane just stood up and didn't take the knee you can't tell me he would not get completely villified by the press.. Like Ollie Robinson for tweets he posted as a teenager! 

Brainwashed by a nanny state mentality that we have become

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1 minute ago, 2015 said:

I'm sorry but if Harry Kane just stood up and didn't take the knee you can't tell me he would not get completely villified by the press.. Like Ollie Robinson for tweets he posted as a teenager! 

Brainwashed by a nanny state mentality that we have become

Wait, surely taking the knee is/was in general people protesting AGAINST the state or the status quo, not brainwashed by it? This makes no sense.

You're following the status quo, so more likely you are the one brainwashed by it I'm afraid to say.

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MODs.....

yet again, can this thread be moved to the politics / current affairs board or whatever.

I come on here to talk about football, you know, Bristol city, the championship, players, formations, the task NP has over the coming months, the euros, kicking a ball about....that sort of thing 

cheers

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Just now, IAmNick said:

Wait, surely taking the knee is/was in general people protesting AGAINST the state or the status quo, not brainwashed by it? This makes no sense.

You're following the status quo, so more likely you are the one brainwashed by it I'm afraid to say.

Really? The status quo - The BBC, Sky, ITV all backing taking the knee massively. Sky even pumped 30 million into the movement. 

You've had Gary Neville saying those who boo should be educated, Piers Morgan slamming the boo boys, yet those aren't the establishment somehow ?

You are the one going with the narrative that it's for 'equality' - it's all about an agenda behind it and it's being backed financially by Sky and the like for their own gain. Who are the mugs? 

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2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Really? The status quo - The BBC, Sky, ITV all backing taking the knee massively. Sky even pumped 30 million into the movement. 

You've had Gary Neville saying those who boo should be educated, Piers Morgan slamming the boo boys, yet those aren't the establishment somehow ?

You are the one going with the narrative that it's for 'equality' - it's all about an agenda behind it and it's being backed financially by Sky and the like for their own gain. Who are the mugs? 

Ah yeah, Sky, the gigantic capitalist entity, are attempting to subtly implement Marxism into our society. Makes perfect sense!

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42 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

So there is no crew? I am part of something I have not done? That is quite silly. Once again what crew am I part of? Who are the posters supporting racism?   

In regards to the latter if you believe that is myself, I am part of this crew provide facts to underline it. 

You can refer again to my earlier points about using insults like racist and nazi and far right. That is about delegitimising views and elitism. 

I’ve answered you re ‘crew’ yet still you twist and deflect…..this time to the point of cutting my quote to suit your point  

You are here vehemently supporting the people supporting the anti anti racism pov.  
You called me ‘funny’ for having an anti racism position for goodness sakes!!! 

Anyway I’m done debating / discussing anything with you anymore as you just will not discuss things straight.  No doubt you’ll twist this response and you’ll wade in again at some point soon. Until then I bid you adieu. 

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Just now, BS2 Red said:

Muddle things by bringing up the England squads intent?

The England squads intent is the only important thing. And they have been crystal clear about it.

Arguing over what people write on the Internet, or what posts people press "like" on a forum is the real attempt at muddying things.

As for the last bit of your post, you've gone from accusing me of saying everyone that boos is racist (because I liked a post with a link in) to saying I can see how the right are using it to their advantage. You didn't even say "far right", just "right". Are you saying that the right are racists? 

I am not in denial about the left's political "involvement" with any of this. Of course the left will be trying to gain political capital from it. So what? That's nothing to do with the England team, they have zero control over what random people write on the Internet.

Thanks for being honest at last, and for me that's the main reason why people are still booing because of the clear and obvious left vs right battle going on underneath the surface of this story. The article knows its there, I know its there and you know its there. Agreed that Marcus Rashford isn't personally trying to destroy the nuclear family but by taking the knee the England squad are getting themselves caught up in the overall picture, they might not have made the connection but the left trying to gain political capital have and so have the 'ignorant minority', the compromise for me is a protest which has no connotations with left vs right politics but that's for the England team to decide for themselves.

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I think we can agree that, in the main, the people booing are not doing it because they are racist but because they believe the information out there that tells them that the players are taking the knee because they want to promote marxism and defund the British Police.

There is now more than enough information out there to know that this is categorically not the case and taking the knee is an anti-racism display and nothing more. It has also been made clear by some that booing the display will be interpreted as a specifically racist act.

@Cowshed@2015@spudski(for example, though fill yer boots if you want to answer) - What should we think of people who continue to boo from this point on?

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39 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

If that's what you want to call it then yes but only because it contradicts your previous post and one of your central arguments that taking the knee is nothing to do with politics. (promise I'm not stalking you ?)

You can try and muddle things by bringing up the England squads intent but the article makes things clear that there is an underlying agenda behind this that runs deeper than a mere anti-racism gesture from footballers. Think what you like about if booing is racist or not but I have a problem with people saying that this has nothing to do with politics, on that point I believe you are being completely dishonest (against overwhelming evidence) because to say otherwise is to invalidate your argument. By liking the post I think its obvious that you see how the right are using this moment to their advantage but yet you are in complete denial about the political left's involvement in this, for me that's what's really bizarre!

So talking about what people are actually doing it and why they are doing it is now "muddling things up" in the land of doublespeak.

Big Brother has properly, properly got you. Reciting propaganda lines, swallowing and regurgitating logical fallacies that make no sense on even the slightest analysis.

Maybe you could try thinking for yourself rather than peddling whatever nonsense arguments you've read on the internet? You are a person so don't do a bot's job for it. 

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2 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

I think we can agree that, in the main, the people booing are not doing it because they are racist but because they believe the information out there that tells them that the players are taking the knee because they want to promote marxism and defund the British Police.

There is now more than enough information out there to know that this is categorically not the case and taking the knee is an anti-racism display and nothing more. It has also been made clear by some that booing the display will be interpreted as a specifically racist act.

@Cowshed@2015@spudski(for example, though fill yer boots if you want to answer) - What should we think of people who continue to boo from this point on?

Yes but you forget the players are not allowed to think and act for themselves. The morality police want to tell them what they think and why they act. It doesn't matter if players have made their own choice to take the knee and given their reasons for doing it. Those who are constantly outraged have decided it is another thing to get outraged about and it must be booed. 

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14 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Thanks for being honest at last, and for me that's the main reason why people are still booing because of the clear and obvious left vs right battle going on underneath the surface of this story. The article knows its there, I know its there and you know its there. Agreed that Marcus Rashford isn't personally trying to destroy the nuclear family but by taking the knee the England squad are getting themselves caught up in the overall picture, they might not have made the connection but the left trying to gain political capital have and so have the 'ignorant minority', the compromise for me is a protest which has no connotations with left vs right politics but that's for the England team to decide for themselves.

It's for the England team to decide for themselves? They already have!

The team decided to take the knee. They have explained why.

What right wing people think it means or what left wing people think it means is irrelevant. 

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Just now, BS2 Red said:

It's for the England team to decide for themselves? They already have!

The team decided to take the knee. They have explained why.

What right wing people think it means or what left wing people think it means is irrelevant. 

You forget that @Baba Yaga lives in the world of Orwellian Doublespeak. Everyone is free to make their own decision as long as Baba Yaga personally agrees with it. And, if Baba Yaga does not personally agree with it, then by definition they cannot have made their own decision. 

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30 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I'm sorry but if Harry Kane just stood up and didn't take the knee you can't tell me he would not get completely villified by the press.. Like Ollie Robinson for tweets he posted as a teenager! 

Brainwashed by a nanny state mentality that we have become

Have ANY players been vilified by the press for not taking the knee? Have Brentford been vilified? 

The Mail and Sun have been pretty against taking the knee, so it's quite weird for you to pretend the press are somehow behind players taking the knee.

A cricket players tweets have nothing to do with this discussion.

As for the "nanny state", it's your side that is demanding people stop doing something. It's your side that assumes they know what other people are thinking.

I agree on the brainwashing, but I fear you are way too far gone to realise what has been done to you. 

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Just now, LondonBristolian said:

So talking about what people are actually doing it and why they are doing it is now "muddling things up" in the land of doublespeak.

Big Brother has properly, properly got you. Reciting propaganda lines, swallowing and regurgitating logical fallacies that make no sense on even the slightest analysis.

Maybe you could try thinking for yourself rather than peddling whatever nonsense arguments you've read on the internet? You are a person so don't do a bot's job for it. 

Not sure if I would call this analysis to be honest. The point was there was an article about the intentions of many who are on the left and how it is very different to that of the England squad. There is a lot of political capital in this for both sides, it goes far beyond the gesture of taking the knee and people who suggest otherwise are being dishonest. I'm trying to avoid getting into the trap of just supporting one side even when they're wrong, my argument really isn't the same as some hack political commentator even if you want to pretend otherwise (I approve of the Orwell references though ?).

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Just now, Baba Yaga said:

Not sure if I would call this analysis to be honest. The point was there was an article about the intentions of many who are on the left and how it is very different to that of the England squad. There is a lot of political capital in this for both sides, it goes far beyond the gesture of taking the knee and people who suggest otherwise are being dishonest. I'm trying to avoid getting into the trap of just supporting one side even when they're wrong, my argument really isn't the same as some hack political commentator even if you want to pretend otherwise (I approve of the Orwell references though ?).

It really is simple.

The players have explained why they are taking the knee. That is why they are taking the knee.

The players have explained what they intend taking the knee to symbolise. That is what them taking the knee symbolises.

Anyone who boos players taking the knee does so in the knowledge that the players have explained what they are doing and why, and by doing so states that they oppose the players stated intention. 

It really is that simple. The political sideshow is just that. 

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38 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I'm sorry but if Harry Kane just stood up and didn't take the knee you can't tell me he would not get completely villified by the press.. Like Ollie Robinson for tweets he posted as a teenager! 

Brainwashed by a nanny state mentality that we have become

Brentford don't kneel. QPR don't kneel. Kalas didn't kneel in our last couple of matches. No vilification happened.

The evidence shows that what you say is not true. When you're getting enraged by a footballer choosing to put their knee on some grass, it's probably time to ask who is really brainwashed...

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25 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

I think we can agree that, in the main, the people booing are not doing it because they are racist but because they believe the information out there that tells them that the players are taking the knee because they want to promote marxism and defund the British Police.

There is now more than enough information out there to know that this is categorically not the case and taking the knee is an anti-racism display and nothing more. It has also been made clear by some that booing the display will be interpreted as a specifically racist act.

@Cowshed@2015@spudski(for example, though fill yer boots if you want to answer) - What should we think of people who continue to boo from this point on?

Interesting point, if its purely being done to raise racial inequality then they need to distance themselves from the BLM movement and state that fact. Did one national side who decided not to take the knee touch or point at the kick racism out badge on their shirts ?   

No matter which way you look at it some of the behaviour and messages under the BLM banner has been unsavoury at best and downright racist at worst. 

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3 minutes ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

Interesting point, if its purely being done to raise racial inequality then they need to distance themselves from the BLM movement and state that fact. Did one national side who decided not to take the knee touch or point at the kick racism out badge on their shirts ?   

No matter which way you look at it some of the behaviour and messages under the BLM banner has been unsavoury at best and downright racist at worst. 

Taking the knee is not owned by any BLM organisation and predates them all.

The players have told us, repeatedly, why they are doing it.

What more do you need?

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8 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Taking the knee is not owned by any BLM organisation and predates them all.

The players have told us, repeatedly, why they are doing it.

What more do you need?

No of course it isn't owned by them, but the players started doing it over here because of them.

People/media then decided to (probably felt like they had to really) change the narrative when more and more people started to distance themselves from the Organisation, after actually being told or reading what their objectives were, and taking the knee then suddenly became "it isn't anything to do with the Organisation". The "political" tag it now has will never be eroded.

There needs to be some sort of new slogan that will NOT be associated with BLM the Organisation. In my opinion, if there was something new, and players then were taking the knee then there wouldn't be anywhere near the amount of division there is now.

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