No knee

[RedRock]

4 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Sanctimonious drivel.

I challenge my children and they challenge me. It's my generation and older that are the problem here. Lazy and entitled having done **** all to deserve anything unlike my grandparents generation who went through hell to survive and leave something for their children and grandchildren.

 

I thought I was 100% correct at that age as did people I knew who thought the opposite. We didn't have to contend with the cancer of social media and the phoney culture war.

Blaming young people for the situation we're in is pure cowardice and you should be ashamed.  

Erm… excuse me. Who said it was children that are the problem? 

Don’t worry, I blame Callaghan, Thatcher, Straw, Blair, Brown, for the mess that’s been created. I just hope that the young teens and below are now taught by our educational system to develop in a way that they have open minds on solutions to complex problems, rather than just superficial gesturing and telling everyone who holds a different view to them that they’re  an ****hole. 

There is hope, the more I see kids on roadsides litter picks bagging up MaccyD wrappings et al thrown out of cars by the entitled generation, the greater the esteem I hold them in. That, just a small example, of their greater consciousness and appreciation of the wider world and desire to be involved in positive, direct and constructive action.

So ‘the children’ are a cause for some optimism in my world. As I see from your posting, we clearly agree that other generations are to blame, but hey, don’t let that stop you slagging posts off. 
 

Enjoy your day.
 

 

[lenred]

11 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Seriously?? WTF?? When was the last time anyone done this at a football game in the UK ? If they did they would get a slap, and that would happen in probably every ground in the country. Unbelievable post. 

Unbelievable?  Really?  These fine upstanding gents got a ‘slap’ then did they for their nazi salutes? (it’s rhetorical btw they clearly didn’t). 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/football-association-england-germany-dortmund-friendly-nazi-gestures-a7776296.html%3famp

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/21/football/england-supporters-nazi-salute-spt-intl/index.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/fan-who-gave-nazi-salute-2341945.amp
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mylondon.news/news/local-news/football-fan-banned-after-nazi-6011692.amp
 

 

 

[Kingswood Robin]

38 minutes ago, Strictly Obi said:

Wouldn't it be great if the booers booed those who make monkey chants or nazi salutes instead of footballers who take the knee. But they don't seem to get angry enough about this, which is a shame. 

But Monkey chants and Nazi salutes don't happen before every single match, so it's a bit less obvious.

Are you familiar with the song "Your just a bunch of W*nkers"? That's often been directed at groups of supporters, even fellow supporters acting a bit stupid.

[Strictly Obi]

13 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Seriously?? WTF?? When was the last time anyone done this at a football game in the UK ? If they did they would get a slap, and that would happen in probably every ground in the country. Unbelievable post. 

Thanks Im really pleased you liked my post. As you know this taking the knee is an international thing. Started in the US. And racism isn't confined to the UK. In fact believe it or not there are racists and bigots all over the world. As you have stated the nazi salutes are mostly a thing of the past in the UK thankfully. But unfortunately still happens with some of the Eastern European counties which is a shame. But I have heard monkey chants in the UK, as I'm sure many others have which is really sad.  So I stand by my original post, and sorry if it upsets you and others. But the reality is racism is here and now in the UK. And many of the nazi saluting NF and EDL Tommy Robinson supporters are football fans.

[BS2 Red]

47 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Scotland now not taking the knee at the Euros. In their 'Stand up to Racism message'.

Hallelujah !!!

Sorry, BLM have already taken that phrase and Scotland are therefore supporting Marxism and defunding the police.

 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Strictly Obi said:

Wouldn't it be great if the booers booed those who make monkey chants or nazi salutes instead of footballers who take the knee. But they don't seem to get angry enough about this, which is a shame. 

I would not call you an idiot, but could you explain what you mean because your post appears idiotic?   

[TheReds]

5 minutes ago, Strictly Obi said:

Thanks Im really pleased you liked my post. As you know this taking the knee is an international thing. Started in the US. And racism isn't confined to the UK. In fact believe it or not there are racists and bigots all over the world. As you have stated the nazi salutes are mostly a thing of the past in the UK thankfully. But unfortunately still happens with some of the Eastern European counties which is a shame. But I have heard monkey chants in the UK, as I'm sure many others have which is really sad.  So I stand by my original post, and sorry if it upsets you and others. But the reality is racism is here and now in the UK. And many of the nazi saluting NF and EDL Tommy Robinson supporters are football fans.

Who said there isn't any racism in the UK and the World? This thread was nothing to do with how the other countries do have an obvious, huge racist issue, I don't think anyone will disagree with that. So I don't know how you expect people to boo monkey chants that just aren't happening here in the UK. I have never heard a monkey chant in my life watching City home or away or seen a Nazi salute. The amount of cameras and phones that are around now would catch it all, and seeing as there is no media coverage of it, it would ultimately mean it isn't an issue within the UK (apart from one link above that was at Leicester).

[Strictly Obi]

28 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

But Monkey chants and Nazi salutes don't happen before every single match, so it's a bit less obvious.

Are you familiar with the song "Your just a bunch of W*nkers"? That's often been directed at groups of supporters, even fellow supporters acting a bit stupid.

What a good idea, perhaps we could all sing that old family favourite at the booers if needed. Cos if we just boo the booers, it would just just sound like we're going along with it :laugh:. 

[Strictly Obi]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I would not call you an idiot, but could you explain what you mean because your post appears idiotic?   

OK so I would say your slow on the uptake but you seem a bit slow to understand. I was saying wouldn't it be great if those booing the kneelers, took their anger out on the racists themselves. Rather than those making a stand against it. 

[Cowshed]

Just now, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

lThe Paul Embery who's a noted Lexiter, Terf, and repeatedly noted as a fascist and part of Blue Labour..  

That Paul Embery. 

Yeah totally left wing. 

Good Grief. 

If as you rightly claim Mr Embrey is Blue Labour, and as you rightly claim part of the coalition of Lexit a coalition on the left including SWP activists who supported Brexit and also a trade unionist, then  yes he is left wing.  

Anybody who thinks the above is a Fascist has lost all sense of reality. 

 

 

[Kingswood Robin]

7 minutes ago, Strictly Obi said:

What a good idea, perhaps we could all sing that old family favourite at the booers if needed. Cos if we just boo the booers, it would just just sound like we're going along with it :laugh:. 

The one fatal flaw the plan!

[Lew-T]

Can we move this thread out? Politics forum is bad enough...

[Strictly Obi]

6 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Can we move this thread out? Politics forum is bad enough...

Sorry, my fault! 

[Cowshed]

 

1 minute ago, Strictly Obi said:

OK so I would say your slow on the uptake but you seem a bit slow to understand. I was saying wouldn't it be great if those booing the kneelers, took their anger out on the racists themselves. Rather than those making a stand against it. 

I may be slow but you are slower as that is hardly an answer to my question. Why would somebody who has a negative view of taking the knee be less likely to challenge somebody performing a nazi salute? 

You may be unaware of Bristol Citys fans role in fighting the British Movement. What are those fans views on taking the knee? Pro? Anti? Indifferent? Any idea? 

People have varying reasons for booing the knee, or having a negative non booing perception of the gesture .. It does make them racist.

You are displaying your prejudice and ignorance.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, TheReds said:

Well considering they applauded the week after for a different gesture with the same message, I think it is fair to assume they weren't booing because they were racist.

Was it the exact same fans in the ground?

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

The same way people think they know the real reason a person takes the knee I presume ? 

No one is making assumptions on that front, we’re going on what players and managers have specifically told us. Big difference 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Trueredsupporter said:

@Stricyly Obi When was the last time anybody saw a nazi salute in a ground? when was the last time anybody heard a monkey chant? doesnt happen and if it did rest assured at bcfc the type of lads who will boo taking the knee would sort it.

We played Cardiff 2 seasons ago and a city fan called a Cardiff player a racist word. I confronted him and his mate but nobody backed me up.  Probably 100 city fans saw it and ignored it. I had to move seats. 

[Strictly Obi]

12 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

I may be slow but you are slower as that is hardly an answer to my question. Why would somebody who has a negative view of taking the knee be less likely to challenge somebody performing a nazi salute? 

You may be unaware of Bristol Citys fans role in fighting the British Movement. What are those fans views on taking the knee? Pro? Anti? Indifferent? Any idea? 

People have varying reasons for booing the knee, or having a negative non booing perception of the gesture .. It does make them racist.

You are displaying your prejudice and ignorance.

Yes but your the slowerest!  Because I never said they'd be less likely to challenge a racist or far right nazi saluter. You assumed I presumed this, which is ignorant on your behalf. I said I wish they they would channel their anger at the actual racist etc instead of booing the kneelers. But I'm happy to suggest they could actually do both. But I'd personally prefer it if they channeled it just at the racists as I personally don't have a problem with the kneelers as it doesn't make me as annoyed or angry as it obviously does them.  

[TheReds]

31 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Was it the exact same fans in the ground?

WTF, is this where we are at? You just cannot simply accept the view that the booing wasn't by racists, and as a club they must have 2 sets of fans who take it turns getting tickets through their loyalty scheme or whatever it was to get tickets at those 2 games? Were they marked as racists and non racists on the Millwall ticketing system?  It must have just been really unlucky to give all the "racists" tickets who turned up one week and booed the taking the knee, and they then let all the "anti racists" the week after to applaud a different anti-racist message. Yeah, that sounds perfectly reasonable. 

 

 

[lenred]

54 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We played Cardiff 2 seasons ago and a city fan called a Cardiff player a racist word. I confronted him and his mate but nobody backed me up.  Probably 100 city fans saw it and ignored it. I had to move seats. 

Surely this can’t be true. The ‘lads’ would've been there to give the perpetrators a slap if it was, no?  
 

Seriously though, massively good on you. Takes courage to do that. 

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

lThe Paul Embery who's a noted Lexiter, Terf, and repeatedly noted as a fascist and part of Blue Labour..  

That Paul Embery. 

Yeah totally left wing. 

Good Grief. 

You have to realise that Ghengis Khan was a bit of a wuss and too left leaning for some of these folk mate.

[LondonBristolian]

5 hours ago, RedRock said:

Think we’ve moved into the ‘cancel culture’ age. A generation that hasn’t been challenged on its views and now believes it’s 100% correct in everything it says and those with a different view are 100% wrong. As ever an action causes a reaction. So we’re moving towards extreme communism or nationalism whichever is your political standpoint and for which there seems very little difference in approach in the two extremes to the control of a society.
 

Need for education not symbolism for me. Educate, educate, educate based on the principle that Society respects all that positively contributes to the common good.

 

I think that is an exceptionally accurate description of those that boo or condone the booing.

Sadly far too many of them fail to reflect on their own behaviour and instead constantly deflect their behaviour by accusing the younger generation of the exact intolerances to other viewpoints that they themselves display. 

I know it is a trite thing to say but how on Earth do people who boo someone kneeling at a football match cope when faced with genuine adversity? 
 

How on Earth did a generation get so brittle that something as trivial as kneeling on the grass or removing a portrait from a private space outrages their sensibilities?

Those setting such fragile things examples to younger generations cannot moan about what they see in return. If it is anything at all, it is their own mirror image.

[Big C]

It is quite funny that the booing is actually keeping this in the spotlight. It would probably have slowly died out if people kept quiet over it.

[AshtonGreat]

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think that is an exceptionally accurate description of those that boo it condone the booing.

Sadly far too many of them fail to reflect on their own behaviour and instead constantly deflect their behaviour by accusing the younger generation of the exact intolerances to other viewpoints that they themselves display. 

I know it is a trite thing to say but how on Earth do people who boo someone kneeling at a football match cope when faced with genuine adversity? 
 

How on Earth did a generation get so brittle that something as trivial as kneeling on the grass or removing a portrait from a private space outrages their sensibilities?

Those setting such fragile things examples to younger generations cannot moan about what they see in return. If it is anything at all, it is their own mirror image.

Bit of a generalisation, especially considering all the protests we've seen over the past 12 months

[TheReds]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

Bit of a generalisation, especially considering all the protests we've seen over the past 12 months

Anyone who doesn't agree with it are brittle, fragile and outraged, but if you get outraged about something that the poster agrees with you are definitely not brittle and outraged, and are quite the opposite and you are merely sticking up for what you believe in no doubt. 

You can go down any route you want in the last year. Statues removed - brilliant, well done people for fighting against it, don't agree - brittle, fragile and racist, BLM movement - brilliant, anyone with a view against it - disgraceful and racist, taking the knee, kill the bill, Palestine etc etc etc. Basically anyone who doesn't subscribe to that way of thinking shouldn't be allowed to speak or have a voice known. 

[havanatopia]

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

Erm… excuse me. Who said it was children that are the problem? 

Don’t worry, I blame Callaghan, Thatcher, Straw, Blair, Brown, for the mess that’s been created. I just hope that the young teens and below are now taught by our educational system to develop in a way that they have open minds on solutions to complex problems, rather than just superficial gesturing and telling everyone who holds a different view to them that they’re  an ****hole. 

There is hope, the more I see kids on roadsides litter picks bagging up MaccyD wrappings et al thrown out of cars by the entitled generation, the greater the esteem I hold them in. That, just a small example, of their greater consciousness and appreciation of the wider world and desire to be involved in positive, direct and constructive action.

So ‘the children’ are a cause for some optimism in my world. As I see from your posting, we clearly agree that other generations are to blame, but hey, don’t let that stop you slagging posts off. 
 

Enjoy your day.
 

 

Just curious, no blame for PM's before or after?

1 hour ago, Strictly Obi said:

Thanks Im really pleased you liked my post. As you know this taking the knee is an international thing. Started in the US. And racism isn't confined to the UK. In fact believe it or not there are racists and bigots all over the world. As you have stated the nazi salutes are mostly a thing of the past in the UK thankfully. But unfortunately still happens with some of the Eastern European counties which is a shame. But I have heard monkey chants in the UK, as I'm sure many others have which is really sad.  So I stand by my original post, and sorry if it upsets you and others. But the reality is racism is here and now in the UK. And many of the nazi saluting NF and EDL Tommy Robinson supporters are football fans.

In a so called 'democracy' and in a so called 'dictatorship' because there are always shades of grey, you will always have racism. It is never going away. Its been around for millennia and will be around for millennia more. These are irrefutable facts which i am sure you and everyone else would agree with.

So how do you tackle it? do you suppress the news item so that only the few who are present have to experience it and the local enforcers remove the culprits or do you get the cameras in to pan it around the world? Media can be a very destructive force as we all know; in fact 95% of the time they are. This is what their raison d'être is; to plough us with bad or sensationalist news all the time. so much that we are numb to new stories on the same subject.

Maybe a country with a significant lack of democracy and where censorship is working well is the lesser of the two evils. and I say that in part because of course we really don't have democracy anywhere, at the moment. That said, I have noticed such stories being pushed even more aggressively than before and it is all part of the agenda to foment division.

The scourge needs to be gone but sadly it never will.

[LondonBristolian]

44 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Bit of a generalisation, especially considering all the protests we've seen over the past 12 months

I wasn't going to bring up the protests both because the majority of people who protest are peaceful and I think it is a little unfair to judge people on the behaviour of the worst of those who agree with them but, since you bring it up, you are obviously right that there is some degree of ideological convergence between those who whine about footballers kneeing down, those who protest against lockdown restrictions, those who felt the need protest outside vote counting centres because they dislike who won an election and those armed thugs who stormed the Capitol in January. Certainly all those protests further the idea that that the generation of which those who boo taking the knee seem to belong to appear to be a very intolerant and brittle generation indeed.

But @TheReds has got my point exactly. I'm not pretending for a moment that there is not an element amongst the left and an element amongst younger voters who are intolerant of other people's ideas and just want to shut down debate, potentially using violence, but there is no evidence at all that that element is any larger than the element of that older and more right wing that shut down debate by booing at football matches, harassing election officials or even bringing guns into the senate in the US. 

What I find bizarre in certain posters' need to constantly pretend all the intolerance is coming from the younger generation when you've got people exhibiting all the above behaviours and, even on a more pretty level, the amount of petty tolerance and unnecessary outrage generated - be it by those who get in a tizzy because someone wants to be called them instead of she or he, those booing because someone kneels down at a football or those who think it should be their decision what some Oxford University students display in their common room - is easily equal or greater than the outrage generated on the left.

I've called you out on your selective highlighting of generalisations before. But why do you feel to point out when generalisations are made about older people yet constantly allow the exact same type of sweeping generalisation about younger people to pass by unchallenged? 

[tts_city]

Waaahhh waaaahhhh waaaaahhhhhh and round she goes, ffs mods move this thread.

[lenred]

Meanwhile, flag prep is going well in support of the team on Sunday …..#uptheMarx

 

[RedRock]

21 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Just curious, no blame for PM's before or after?

In a so called 'democracy' and in a so called 'dictatorship' because there are always shades of grey, you will always have racism. It is never going away. Its been around for millennia and will be around for millennia more. These are irrefutable facts which i am sure you and everyone else would agree with.

So how do you tackle it? do you suppress the news item so that only the few who are present have to experience it and the local enforcers remove the culprits or do you get the cameras in to pan it around the world? Media can be a very destructive force as we all know; in fact 95% of the time they are. This is what their raison d'être is; to plough us with bad or sensationalist news all the time. so much that we are numb to new stories on the same subject.

Maybe a country with a significant lack of democracy and where censorship is working well is the lesser of the two evils. and I say that in part because of course we really don't have democracy anywhere, at the moment. That said, I have noticed such stories being pushed even more aggressively than before and it is all part of the agenda to foment division.

The scourge needs to be gone but sadly it never will.

How many more do you want?
 

Certainly could add Cameron, May and Boris to that list.  Thankfully, Straw only made Home Secretary but he did enough damage in that role.